Er, I have "had a listen" to a Roland organ. I've enjoyed playing several Atelier models. If you think Roland's Atelier styles "are similar to the Wersi", you've either not played one or you're kidding yourself.

In any case, this "all organs have crap styles" apology for the Wersi is a quite bizarre argument to make. If that's the best that can be said for the Abacus, who in their right mind is paying all that money for one???

I played Ateliers at music exibitions and they sounded the same as my G-70 styles and somewhat better. In fact many of Atelier styles are the same used on Roland arrangers, so I see all this "organ styles" vs "arranger styles" argument irrilevant.

The problem here is how to convince somebody to spend 10 times the money to get something that OOTB has styles worse than a Casio!

[This message has been edited by mrdave (edited 09-23-2008).]

I think I begin to see the light...

Organ players DON'T WANT realistic styles or sounds! It would distract from the unrealistic organ sounds too much!

I guess if your main style of music is playing styles, songs and stuff from the seventies and earlier, using seventies quality sounds is going to get you a lot closer to the sound of the heyday of the 'home organ'. Cheesy drum sounds, unrealistic guitar sounds (and more castanets!) kind of defined that period in organ history.

So, naturally, an organ that sounded as cheesy as those early Thomas's, Lowery's and even Wersi's is going to resonate well with people who's musical tastes (and equipment choices) haven't changed in forty years, and run to that dated style...

In the meantime, the rest of us have made it to the 21st century, and are never looking back!

Still, it makes you wonder... The whole 'open' arranger, VSTi's and hi-tech computers, in the hands of players who mostly want to sound like Klaus Wunderlich in the seventies! No wonder there's a real lack of user demos that utilize this 21st century technology. No-one really wants to sound THAT modern (or they'd already have a T2/PA2X/G70!).

But, I guess most of them buy it and install it, just to one-up each other at the organ club meeting... 99% of all OAS users would probably sound better OOTB on a T2 than struggling with OAS and those lame styles (if they even wanted to sound contemporary, that is).

I'll tell you one thing these Wersi owners don't stint on, though, and it may well be one of the reasons they praise it so highly... A really good speaker system. I can't count how many TOTL arranger users I've heard here that play their amazing 21st century machines through crap keyboard amps, gerry-rigged home theater systems or even the pathetic built-in speakers

Run it through as strong and well designed a sound system, and it'll sound even better. Running a $3500 arranger through a $500 amp just doesn't make sense. Try a $1500 set of reference monitors and subs, and all of a sudden, you finally hear the TRUE sound of your arranger!

But organ players go one more step... instead of listening to the speakers directly, organs are designed to bounce the sound of the speakers all around the room. There are often several different speakers for different sections of the organ, sometimes pointing different ways. But one thing they all tend to have in common is that you NEVER get to hear the speaker directly. It always bounces around, and fills up the room before you hear it. Quite impressive, if done right...

Try it yourself, some time... set up your monitors so you get an indirect sound, point them away from you, into the walls and corners of the room. You'll probably have to adjust the EQ a bit, but it can give you a bigger sound if you want that (but not necessarily a more accurate one!).

Anyway... sadly, Bill, few here are still into the sixties and seventies organ scene, so it's hardly surprising that the Wersi doesn't get the praise you think it deserves. For that niche style of music, it's probably pretty good. But for the same reason I don't gig with a harpsichord (no-one seems to know how to minuet and gavotte any more!), I can't really ever see me using something that dated sounding Wersi, either...

The Wersi is by no means an organ any more than any other arranger or workstation keyboard is. Sure some people use arrangers/workstations as organs but I doubt many people would pay a premium price for any instrument if that's all that it was capable of. The Wersi does far more than organ sounds and the simple style demo's Bill posted are in no way reflective of the actual instrument sounds on the Wersi. All it shows are some basic styles using mostly GM/GS/XG based sounds and its not remotely indicative of what the Wersi factory sounds are like. Not unlike most keyboards the GM/GS/XG sounds are far from stellar.

I didn't find the styles Bill posted to be bad but they weren't great either. I own a Wersi OAS 7 and if I didn't know what the instrument truly sounds like or its incredible capabilities, I'd probably think it wasn't good from the style demos alone. Thankfully I know better.

Well, that statement alone tells me enough. Next time you tell us something is "awesome", I'll translate that into "mediocre".

I wonder how hard is it to change sounds with in the style?
Are there any onboard styles that do not use GM sounds. I would like to here styles with changes

The OAS style sounds can be easily changed, but only for the whole track. (The OAS style engine although updated extensively is now about 8 – 9 years old)
If you have the OAA (Open Art Arranger) they can be changed per part, (Intro/ variation/fill etc) track and chord. (If memory serves correctly up to 16 variations)
In addition the number of parts are increased fro 8 to 18.

Bill

OK, so you are thankful to know it sounds better than this... How about YOU demoing a few of these 'good' styles? So that we could be thankful, too...

I find it strange that Bill is the only one willing to post anything Wersi here, they invariably sound appalling, and nobody with a Wersi is willing to admit that this IS what they sound like OOTB... (but they are unwilling to SHOW that they do not). I know my G70, although it has a legacy GS soundset in it as well as the new stuff, none of the styles address them very much. OOTB, that is. If there is a better soundset in the Wersi (not a self-installed VSTi), why don't the factory styles address them? Surely such an advanced arranger is capable of a simple 'use the new sounds' command to avoid this.

And sorry, but my G70's basic GS sounds are FAR better than those Wersi ones, in the first place! Yet alone the new sounds. But if those styles weren't 'bad', I'd sure like to hear some of them for the Wersi that ARE 'bad'! I need a good laugh! Those already gave me a chuckle.

I'm sorry, but at this point in the dialog, I just don't think you are going to get ANYONE to simply 'trust' you on this one. We have all heard innumerable Wersi demos that ALL had the same '15 year-old Roland (that's being generous ) in a skating rink' quality. IF the Wersi sounds better than this, we are going to have to hear it to believe it. Usually, around here, if someone posts something really terrible, somebody posts something better as a refutation.

Not sit around and go 'Trust me, it really DOES sound better than this. But I'm NOT going to prove it. I'm just going to talk, talk, talk...' until we are possibly hypnotized, or maybe just bored into giving up!

Well, I gave up long ago...

DIKI, You don't know what you talking about if you say that those plastic japanese toys sound better than WERSI !!!
You are only jalous, because you can't afford one !!!

Stay with your crappy roland and yamaha's !!!

Well, I may not be right

But I know what I've heard... same thing all the rest of you have heard. Pure, unadulterated, well, you know

Talk, talk, talk... That's all you seem to be able to do. Post some music, or give it a rest. All you are doing is talk the talk.

I'll walk the walk, any day!