I also set the keyboard's midi out information at All Parts, which in the full fingering mode really causes problems. The same problems, however, were also duplicated using the Digitech VR. The difference being that you can see the problem on the VRs display, whereas the TC does not have this particular feature.

Essentially, the midi information transmitted is merely a wrong chord because of the fingering mode selected and the playing technique. At least, that's how it appears to me.

The workaround for this turns out to be in making sure that your right hand is at least an octave above the chords played with your left hand. If your right hand drops down into the range of the left hand's octave chord range, then it will trigger erroneous midi chord information, despite the fact that you cannot hear any changes in the chord itself. The only reason I was not encountering the same problem is because I play using the Multi-Finger fingering mode, therefore, I'm never using my right hand below the split point.

Seems like the TC is only doing what it is told to do by the keyboard.

Hope this helps,

Gary

First off, let me thank Gary D for his time this afternoon...I really enjoyed & appreciated it...

Every talk I have with Gary is like a clinic of some sorts, lol...

Ok, to the matter of the TC Helicon weird harmonies...

It has to do with how I play the Tyros 2...From what Gary thinks, not too many guys play it in full keyboard and chord with the right hand and do bass lines with the left. Defining the split point is problematic and then not crossing those boundaries and sending odd info to the TC proves fatal...

I guess most guys chord with their left hand, below the split point, which works well...

So, for me, I'll be sticking with the Digitech Vocalist and VR, which fit me like a glove.

There were many things I loved about the TC, but this mis match of functionality is a deal breaker...

Also, the literature provided by TC Helicon should have a more in depth section on this topic...

Back she goes!!!!

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Bill in Dayton

1- Have you tried triggering the harmonies with the Right hand like Uncle Dave does works great for him?

2- If the VR worked so well, why did you buy a TC?

Donny,

It's a combination of factors that caused Bill's problem. Consequently, just triggering with the right hand wouldn't provide the solution, especially when playing left hand base and occasionally drifting over the split point line.

I always enjoy talking with Bill. He is a very talented player and excellent performer.

Cheers,

Gary

Well Gary we all play differently & certain gear works better then others for each of our styles of play .....at least he tried it, just wasn't in the cards for him but is the Bees Knees for many others..

Carry On

Hmmm I play predominantly in full keyboard mode and I would just like to add that I have no issues with the TC unit at all.

Harmonies are all as they should be.

You did know that you can set a keyrange on the TC unit so that it ignores all notes above/below a certain point? (page 21 of the manual).

This split point can be different to the one you use on the keyboard.

I have no split point setup at all on my keyboard only on the harmony m so that it ignores that part of the keyboard I don't want to send to it.
Unless I want a bass sound on the left to play a manual bass, and even then that split only allows 2 octaves for the bass, which is plenty in my experience.
In this case the split point can be the same on both..

Dennis

I do heavy chording with my RH...all over the mid and upper regions of the keyboard. I also play a fairly busy bass with my LH...Can you tell nme what your tyros 2 settings are?

Thanks-

Bill

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Bill in Dayton

Hi Bill,

I don't use a T2, I am using a 76 note controller with a Motif XS Rack, so perhaps there-in lies the difference?

Bill, I wasn't trying to say you were wrong, sorry if that's the impression, just trying to explain I don't have any probs.

From your description, it sounded like I play in a similar way to yourself, albeit not using an arranger keyboard.

I have the TC set to ignore everything below F3, whether I have a split on the keyboard or not. The splits on the keyboard when I am playing a bassline below the previously mentioned F3, are seperate and only affect the XS rack. IE the bass is set to tx on channel 2 which only plays on the XS, the right on channel one and then thru'd to the TC. When I have the harmony controlled via midi, it is set to channel 15.

It might be that this works only because I am using a controller, seperate soudn module and the harmonyM, I cannot be sure, apart from the harmony notes tend to be okay. Mind you I only use a double harmony vocies on about 15 songs, the rest are mainly rock harmony using a single harmony voice over mine.

What I have found is the Harmony M isn't too smart when it comes to rootless chords, so I have had to modify a bit in those songs where the chordal structure is a bit trickier, but nothing too difficult...LOL I am way too lazy for anything tricky!!!

Dennis

Thought I'd post the responses I receieved from TC Helicon Customer Support department. At first I'm handled by a lower level CS person but then he refers my question to product manager: (Scroll to the bottom for the start of the messages...)

Enjoy...
-----------------------------------------

Greetings, you recently submitted an incident to the TC Support Team which was assigned to me. Below you will find a summary of your question and my response.

If I do not hear from you within 96 hours, I will assume your issue has been resolved.

Thank you for contacting the TC Support Team.

Please do NOT reply to this email. In order to update your question, click on the link for TC Support Interactive below.


Please click here to update your question.


Subject
Harmony M Tracking errors

Discussion Thread
Response (Nicholas) 09/30/2008 08:18 AM
Dear Bill,

This is the answer I received:

Re: recognizing chord extensions, Harmony-M and Harmony-G recognize many of them, and some we will make an interval change in response to them. But we made a deliberate decision to have Harmony-G sing more like a human harmony singer does, which is to stay on the main notes of a chord.

In manual mode you can harmonize the way you want - But of course it is difficult to play the harmonies parts while playing- In this case the use of a sequencer is very interesting.


best regards
Response (Nicholas) 09/29/2008 02:18 PM
Dear Bill,

I have sent the question to our product manager to know exactly how the output harmony notes are chosen in chord mode when feeding a 4 notes chord.
I will come backk to you as soon as I get an answer.

regards
Customer (Bill Corfield) 09/28/2008 04:50 AM
Still trying to figure this out...

Please advise...
Customer (Bill Corfield) 09/25/2008 03:13 PM
Hi-

Just purchased a Harmony M and I'm having trouble with the harmony output when using textured chords. If I play 7ths, 2nds, 9ths, 6ths, flat 9's, etc. it goes kind of sideways unless I have it in manual mode, which doesn't sound as good as the normal operating mode.

My keyboard is a Tyros 2 and I use the "full keyboard" setting...

Please advise how I can improve the harmonies...

Thanks-

Bill Corfield

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Bill in Dayton

Bill,

As we discussed on the phone, TC's service department is the pits. Despite the fact I was able to obtain a direct contact telephone number I never talked with anyone that had any technical expertise with this product. Additionally, when I informed them that the wrong operating manual was in the box, and requested them to mail one to me, to date it still has not arrived. Fortunately, I have a great repair guy in my area if something were to go bad.

Gary