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#244121 - 10/06/08 11:51 AM Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
aramis Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 31
First of all i must say that I am not good on arranger workstations technical knowledge. And i wanna ask you 2 questions about them. Thank you for your helps.

With Tyros 2 and Tyros 3, can i compose totally new styles freely. For example, can i create an arabic song's style? Are there any weaknes about creating new styles on Tyros 2 and tyros 3. Especially if we compare Tyros with Korg workstations.

And can i sampling an oriental musical instrument with Tyros 2 and tyros 3. or can i load new instrument voices that sampled other people? And again, are there any weakness about sampling new sounds on Tyros 2 and tyros 3. Especially if we compare Tyros with Korg workstations.


[This message has been edited by aramis (edited 10-06-2008).]

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#244122 - 10/06/08 02:04 PM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
aramis,
One thing I can recommend is communicate with Rikki.

I don't know if she monitors here or not...but she is on the Korg arranger (PA2XPRO/PA800/PA500)forum..
She has TONS of experience on BOTH Keyboards!

Lee
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Lee S.

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#244123 - 10/06/08 04:46 PM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14331
Loc: NW Florida
I think a lot depends more on availability...

Both arrangers are pretty powerful, but the Korg has dominated the middle east market for quite a while, and very strong in the far east due mostly to the wide availability of styles and sounds already developed for that platform.

Unless you plan to develop your own styles from scratch, and do all your own instrument sampling (a tough job at best, and tougher that Yamaha doesn't support Akai import, where there IS a large supply of already well sampled mideast instruments), and are remarkably skilled in arabic and oriental instrument imitation, I would probably tend to recommend going the established route. Korg's are the dominant arranger in the arabic market, and strong in the oriental from what we are told...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 10-06-2008).]
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#244124 - 10/06/08 05:09 PM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703

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#244125 - 10/06/08 05:10 PM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703

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#244126 - 10/06/08 11:34 PM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
aramis Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 31
if i dont misunderstood, i can arrange new styles and sample new sounds with tyros even if it can be a litle bit hard job.

I think all the people advise me korg. And yes a lot of musician use Korg in my country. But i fall in love Tyros. Especially tyros wonderfull voices. Is there a korg arranger workstation with sounds same as yamaha wonderfull sounds? Especially piano sound important for me.

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#244127 - 10/07/08 06:12 AM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
aramis do they use alot of Piano in Arabic music?

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#244128 - 10/07/08 09:34 AM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
aramis,
If you are a heavy tech person and want the most programmable machine....love lots of flexibility and the best, most functional style creation...go with the Korg.

If you want the most already available styles from Yamaha and third party go Yamaha.

Like others said however, when it comes to Mid-East sound/styles...go Korg.

Lee
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Lee S.

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#244129 - 10/07/08 10:14 AM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
He wants to know if the Tyros has the same "editing" capability for Style making as the Korg's do. In other words, will he have the "ability" to create his custom Styles on a Tyros as he would on a Korg? So first of all, is the Tyros3 capable of making complex custom Styles like a Korg can with Korg's micro-editing capability??; and secondly, if the Tyros IS ABLE to, would it be as "easy" to do on the Tyros as it would be on the Korg??.

I think that is the "central idea" of what aramis is trying to ask in my opinion. Although I could be wrong.

Best,
Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#244130 - 10/07/08 12:38 PM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14331
Loc: NW Florida
First of all, you can't sample with a T3. Or a PA2Xpro, for that matter. You can play BACK samples, made with something else, on the T3, but the choice of samples already made is miniscule compared to Korg, who allow Akai import (the most popular sampler format), whereas Yamaha insist on their own proprietary format, or just plain .wav import, which makes you do ALL the work (sampling acoustic instruments well is a science AND an art!).

And secondly, have you played the PA2Xpro? It's piano sound is light years ahead of the PA1Xpro, plus it's Akai sample playback capability gives you access to some excellently sampled piano sets from people like William Coakley, EastWest and others.
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#244131 - 10/07/08 03:43 PM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703

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#244132 - 10/07/08 04:06 PM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
First of all, you can't sample with a T3. Or a PA2Xpro, for that matter.


Hate to correct you, but on the PA2X Pro you can sample, albeit at a fixed rate of 48 kHz. Its sampler is actually rather sophisticated and -for example- the crossfade loop function works better than on my old Akai S-1000 or S-2800.
The PA2X Pro has even a digital input, which you can assign as a sampling source.
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#244133 - 10/07/08 05:23 PM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14331
Loc: NW Florida
I stand corrected... Kudos to Korg, after all...

Mind you, I still stand by the fact that sampling acoustic instruments is something best left to the pros, but at least the Akai import make it easy to access these...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#244134 - 10/07/08 05:52 PM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703

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#244135 - 10/08/08 12:12 AM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
aramis Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally posted by keybplayer:
He wants to know if the Tyros has the same "editing" capability for Style making as the Korg's do. In other words, will he have the "ability" to create his custom Styles on a Tyros as he would on a Korg? So first of all, is the Tyros3 capable of making complex custom Styles like a Korg can with Korg's micro-editing capability??; and secondly, if the Tyros IS ABLE to, would it be as "easy" to do on the Tyros as it would be on the Korg??.

I think that is the "central idea" of what aramis is trying to ask in my opinion. Although I could be wrong.

Best,
Mike


thank you keybplayer. I think my english is very bad

And thank all of you for your answers. I understand about sampling issues. What do you think about still making capability of tyros. can i make new styles on tyros.

or maybe i can forget korg and tyros, i can buy an or700?

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#244136 - 10/08/08 01:17 AM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
I stand corrected... Kudos to Korg, after all...

Mind you, I still stand by the fact that sampling acoustic instruments is something best left to the pros, but at least the Akai import make it easy to access these...


Well,
if you have a Tyros 2, a Motif ES rack, a Fantom XR fully expanded... there are lots of acoustic instruments already sampled to resample...
As for the Akai import function, it's useful indeed, but I prefer to convert their sounds to -wav format (using a program like Extreme Sample Converter) and then work on the single waveforms to reduce them to a reasonable size. This is even more important for samples in Giga format, that can take up LOTS of memory: there are piano samples where each note lasts for twenty seconds or drumkits where each instruments is sampled at six different velocity levels, which is fine, but what happens when you have a cymbal sample where each one of the six layers lasts for fifteen seconds?
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#244137 - 10/08/08 05:16 PM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14331
Loc: NW Florida
That's exactly WHY they sound so good, though, Dreamer.

And Akai samples sets tend to top out at 32MB for entire instruments, only a few tend to be more. This reflects the limited RAM you could get into one of those. So the sounds have already been optimized for limited RAM samplers. But a T3 can hold a GB of RAM. An astounding amount, compared to Akai's. But unfortunately, the load times for it have gotten WORSE, not better over the last ten years. My Kurzweil (fifteen year old design) can do 1MB/sec. The T2 was at least four times as slow!

Those Akai samples were already trimmed down to what the developers thought was as small as they could possibly go and sound as good as they are. Trust me, if they thought they could make them smaller, they would have. Trimming them even further is, firstly, and exercise in patience (you know how many different samples are in the average four-way piano set? or a three-way full drumkit?), and takes considerable skill to compromise the original patch as little as possible. There's a REASON why sample sets, especially acoustic instruments, and especially for limited RAM samplers (GIGA is a piece of cake with no RAM limits!) are primarily made by very skilled third parties and cost so much. Few even have the skill to play and record the samples well in the first place...

How many of you have access to a world class grand, in a world class room, with world class mikes and pre's to record it with? Or access to a world class trumpeter, capable of consistent tone and pitch control for all the notes? Or a mizmar player, or an exhaustive collection of world percussion, and the technique to play it well?

All I am saying is that if using the sampler in your arranger is of any importance, pressuring your manufacturer, by whatever it takes, to speed up the load times is CRITICAL. That is, of course, unless you LIKE to spend days editing .wav files to squeeze them down to something small enough to load in the same time that an ancient ten year old sampler could have loaded the originals in in the first place...!

And for all you Yamaha fans, pressuring Yamaha to recognize the de facto standard of Akai import will save you days, if not weeks of tedious work to convert Akai disks into .wav format, and have to laboriously do ALL the sample mapping yourself. Maybe some of you don't realize, but Akai import brings in dozens, if not hundreds of different samples into a multisample set, and loads them all, along with their note position and velocity splits, with no work on your part at all. With a Yamaha, you have to split them ALL out into the individual samples, note CAREFULLY where each and every single one of them goes along with it's arcane name, and then laboriously, BY HAND, reassemble those in the Yamaha. Then save it... at around four times SLOWER than they even load up at (this is a well documented problem)..!

Several HOURS to save the entire memory...

Maybe THIS will wake you up to the reality of using this potentially useful feature that in practice turns out to be a complete boondoggle. It's all well and good in theory, but the practice makes it limited to only the skilled and patient few.

WHY should you have to do all this work, when Akai import would absolve you of it completely, and at least speeding up the RAM pipe would make it no slower than it was fifteen years ago (when everyone used Akai samplers if they used samplers at all, other than the few Roland, Kurzweil and Emu users - Akai were the dominant sampler for years). Patience is one thing, but these are features that existed long ago. Why should they not be on a current sampler, if not better ones?

Make some noise
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#244138 - 10/08/08 08:55 PM Re: Tyros 2 and 3 abilities
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6021
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi ,
you can't sample sounds on a tyros, but can on my korg pa800. Never tried it, doesn't interest me.

Style creation is possible on both.
More style creation & editing functions available on the korg. It's basically a workstation.
Some of the style editing functions that the korg can do onboard, has to be done via 3rd party software for yamaha. Most of the 3rd party software is free, but you still have to learn to use it.

The korg styles can be more sophisticated than a Yamaha style because of the Korg style structure.

best wishes
Rikki




[QUOTE]Originally posted by aramis:
[B]if i dont misunderstood, i can arrange new styles and sample new sounds with tyros even if it can be a litle bit hard job.
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best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
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