I find Ketron's tactics with the release of Audya very curious and out of character for a KB manufacturer. They're release model seems very out of character for a KB company.

Taking the Audya on the Roadshows and industry conferences and demoing it for consumers is almost like probing and market research. As far as I know they have established at least 3 or 4 release dates that have come and gone.

Do you think they really ran into technicial difficulties with the core design of the product or do you think they were doing a proof-of-concept with the general public or a combination of both???

Is the Audya THAT revolutionary?

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Al Giordano
Visit us at ARRANGER WORLD! http://www.arrangerworld.com

Korg Pa2xpro, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland TD-12 Vdrums, Roland SPD-S.

I think it's a combo of both. I think they're having technical issues, but also played the marketing game here. The possible price was leaked too. They're probably trying to get an idea of what people would be willing to pay for one.

I don't see how it's going to be so "revolutionary" though. Unless they've built the OS around Linux or Windows and add features like you'd find on a Neko or MS.., I don't think it will be ground-breaking.

Be patient its coming

This is what AJ posted the last time the Audya issue came out:

LIVE AUDIO LOOPS EXPLAINED FURTHER.

2 Drum tracks (Drum 1= Midi, Drum 2 = Audio).
1 Bass track (Audio/Midi depending on style).
4 Arranger Chord parts (Midi).
1 Arranger Chord part (Audio/Live).
2 Chord parts - instant/lower (midi).

STYLES WITH AUDIO LOOPS.
* Use all tracks (especially the AUDIO tracks).
* Recorded as 3 styles (e.g Ballad Slow (0-30%), Ballad Med (30-60%), Ballad Fast (60-100%) [where % marks tempo] so there are actually 3 'styles' per style depending on tempo selected! This eliminates Audio disruption when tempo is stretched beyond limit of the 'styles'.
* User can create their own AUDIO styles, but yes, extra work is needed ONLY on audio tracks if user decides to use audio.
* Extensive Editing available on non audio tracks.
* Limited editing available on Audio tracks (as you can expect).

STYLES WITHOUT AUDIO LOOPS
* Use all NON AUDIO tracks (Drum1, Bass, Chord 1-4).
* Recorded as 1 style (e.g Salsa) with midi tempo variation (as present).
* You can create all parts from scratch.
* Permits you to load previous Ketron styles (that don't use Audio loops).
* Permits you to edit ALL tracks extensively.

STYLE CONVERSIONS.
* Applicable? Yes, since MIDI tracks on styles still exists.
* Converting from other manufacturer to KETRON? Yes via external software (e.g EMC).
* Converting from KETRON to other manufacturer - yes, but you'll loose/miss the audio tracks.
* 3rd party styles usable? Yes. You can simply inco-orporate whichever loop into 3rd party style (if time signatures match) once loaded into AUDYA.

* Recording your won loops? Possible. Using these with styles (factory or user)? Possible ... after some extra work editing the loop(s).

Hope I answered most questions (especially those in doubt).

Thanks,

AJ

So, what does this mean? I think that the most significant part is the first one:

2 Drum tracks (Drum 1= Midi, Drum 2 = Audio).
1 Bass track (Audio/Midi depending on style).
4 Arranger Chord parts (Midi).
1 Arranger Chord part (Audio/Live).
2 Chord parts - instant/lower (midi).

To me this means that, after experimenting all these months, the software designers at Ketron have given up the idea of creating an arranger totally based on audio loops and opted for a more conventional approach, one they have already a lot of experience with.

In other words:
1- the Audya will have a midi drum track coupled with an audio one, just like the SD1, the SD5, the Midjay, etc; hopefully the drums will be of studio quality, just like the other sounds.
2- the other rhythm tracks (bass, guitar, piano...) will be either audio or midi, depending on the style chosen. My guess is that styles that require complex chords (like the Jazz-Swing ones) will be based on midi loops that will respond in real time to every kind of chord played (they will also probably improve the chord recognition), while simpler styles will have the choice between midi and audio parts.
Example: a style like a Rock&Roll is usually played only with majors and sevenths, so they will no doubt include one or more styles based on an audio guitar riff (a la Chuck Berry) recorded in all the tonalities but with only major and seventh chords. If someone fancies to experiment and see what happens playing a minor or a diminished chord, he/she will have the option of the same (or a different) R&R style, but with a midi guitar loop. And the same goes for the other parts, like bass, piano (think of a boogie woogie style with audio loops) and so on.
Of course the Audya will be able to play all the old Ketron styles, but with the benefit of the new sounds, of much better quality.

Well, this is my take on the subject...

I still haven't heard from Ketron, here, about how many different chord TYPES will be recognized by the audio loop section.

Major minor and seventh? Maj min, 7th and dim? Maj, maj7th, min, min(maj7th), dim, half dim? Maj, min, maj6, min6, min7b5, aug, maj(7b10), and so on and so forth...

It's this aspect, more than anything else, that gives me pause about this kind of feature. Especially when MIDI based guitar modes are starting to get MUCH better, and have no chord limitations...

Dreamer, Diki,

That was my understanding as well; that the Audio loops would be chord triggered and time stretched in the style. If that were the case, then it would surely have been a great innovation, but if they are backing off of that technique; then what could be holding back release and more importantly pushing up the price?

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Al Giordano
Visit us at ARRANGER WORLD! http://www.arrangerworld.com

Korg Pa2xpro, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland TD-12 Vdrums, Roland SPD-S.

Al,
it could be that after spending many months trying to get the audio loops work flawlessly they are now realizing that they have limitations or just don't work like they were hoping, so have redefined their goals and are now redesigning the keyboard with new styles, midi-based.
Anyway, if Ketron can come up with a keyboard like the SD1 or the SD5, but with sounds of studio quality, I am still interested.

Yeah, and if the price includes an invitation to Italy for a workshop or "in depth seminar" to
learn the Ketron OS well, I think I'll order too.
I would probably need some years, have to learn Italian as well as try out wine and pizza while
I'm there.

Cheers
GJ

Gunnar,
let's talk about it; I am thinking to come and see those fjords one of these days...

My questions are this: If they were/are planning on having real audio-loops that utilize chord recog. and are time stretched.., then applying that into a style format, how much RAM were they planning on putting in this puppy?

Are these audio loops going to be perm. in ROM, or will they be streamed from a HD? I would imagine using real audio loops in the mannor they want.., along with other features within real-time playing would eat the crap out of a boards CPU. Perhaps they realized they're going to need a little more horsepower than they initially thought, which then increases production costs, and requires another look at the software/hardware configurations. Of course a cost that would also be passed to the consumer as well.

Wouldn't it be nice fellas to have these closed arrangers running 2 gigs of ram and more... Unless they already are and I missed the memo.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 10-28-2008).]