I was thinking about this at work today. I wonder how well it will stack up the Triton. I personally have a Trinity, and dont own any Roland products but my friends do, and I like the roland sound alot. I may just get a xv3080, but I was thinking what can roland do to one up Korg? I mean do you think it will be like the 3080 or 5080 and offer sample play back? How many expansion cards ( the XV88 has a mere 4???? why ). Do you think they may go the touch screen route? Both roland and yamaha have new keyboards with touch screen's coming.

Another thing I started to think about was the fact that if the XV60/80 is more like the 5080 then how much will they charge for one? I mean the 5080 us gonna be $2000, and the Xv88 is $2500.

It's going to be interesting to see what roland comes up with to compete against the Triton. Maybe some kind of option like the new Vp 9000 ( I doubt that because of the expensive price of just a rack unit vP 9000 ) some kind of add on board ( like the moss Korg has ) maybe a Jp 8000?

Any ideas or thoughts of what they can do to be one top?

Some interesting questions which Roland has absolutely refused to speak about. Also the question is when. Will they have new products at the Summer NAMM show so that real products will be available in stores before Christmas. Its hard to see how they can beat the Triton especially with some used Tritons coming on the market for $1600!

I think XV 61 and 76 wil be with XV 3080 and i hobe that the wil be a workstation with XV 5080 and maybe jp in it and display as va7 has.

I think that Rolands new XV synth will cause a lot of controversy and will cause people to drop their Trition or whatever else they are using.

Judging by that new VA-7, I wouldn't be surprised if the new XV workstation included a huge screen, variphrase technology, a slot for JP expansion, dynamic articulation reverbs and much more. Something like this would easily knock the Triton out of the water.

What' cool about the XVs, is that it works great even unexpanded. I simply couldn't afford an XV, I'd keep my XP, but it would be nice if Roland really came out with that SRJV20 Sample ROM Expansion Board - That will would still crank some more life in to our JVs/XPs.

The Infamous EPU.

"think that Rolands new XV synth will cause a lot of controversy and will cause people to drop their Trition or whatever else they are using.
Judging by that new VA-7, I wouldn't be surprised if the new XV workstation included a huge screen, variphrase technology, a slot for JP expansion, dynamic articulation reverbs and much more. Something like this would easily knock the Triton out of the water."

I don't know about that. It will be a nice synth, but a Triton beater? Probably not.

The Triton already has the best interface around. The Variphrase is pretty much a gimmick, and the other features you mention are already eclipsed by the Triton's effects and sounds.

Right now Triton is king, and the way these machines are set up, they will be king for a long time, much like the Kurzweil expandable synths.

Kurzweil and Korg are in their own realm now.

Heres the latest info on the Variphrase and the vp-9000:
http://www.sonicstate.com/synth_reviews/roland_vp9000.cfm?p=0

Kypski kyp@aol.com a professional user from NYC writes:

oh gosh i am not happy with these reviews. I have an internet friend who works at Roland Japan and he said that Roland was hesitant to put it out yet as they wanted to use more up to date parts but decided just to use old stock ( stuff that dated as far back as 1991!) and build the system around that.
Well Roland , this is what happens when you cut corners. You are going to have to rebuild this unit now because once word gets out you will have a bunch of unwanted stock laying around.


Rating: 1 out of 5 posted Saturday-Jul-15-2000 at 14:06
Laurens Gunneweg gunneweg@hotmail.com a professional user from Utrecht,Holland writes:

I am SOOOOO furious at myself for buying this thing without reading these limited but accurate reviews. This "thing" should not even have been released yet. 1st hour using it, I put 6 samples in there, all diff tempos...ran them through the processor...results....nothing but complete nonsense. Poor sync, nothing in key, notes hanging, and then BOOM!.....instant crash. I tried to reboot but it said "Prcsr Error Overload". In the manual it says when you get that message it must be serviced. I tried again and again to get it to resume working. That message will not go away and there is a high pitch eminating from the outputs. I almost started crying because here in Holland they are nearly $4500 american plan!
This is not worth it for any price because it is unstable,unusable, and unworthy of any price tag. I cannot re-sell it as the buyer would hate me once he found out that I had sold him something this unusable.

There is something wrong with this machine and I dont thing any OS upgrade could help. It's the slow processor and bad internal programming that makes it unusable and the sound quality is almost as bad as the Casio Sk-1.

Anyone want mine? I live in Utrecht so you must pick it up but I will sell for 300 dutch or trade for a Atari ST plus 100 dutch g.

-5 marks

Simply the worst piece of garbage Roland has ever made. It is not even finished and they put it out on the market.

They just lost a customer ....FOR LIFE! a Leowner smoney m,sharp ta outputs keep are is


Rating: 1 out of 5 posted Saturday-Jul-15-2000 at 13:59
Adam Nonni ANoni@myemail.com a professional user from Long Island USA writes:

the VP9000 unit is a pain to own at this time, because Roland Japan simply did not do their homework before shipping it.
Some examples: Most memory that meets Roland’s published specs will not work in this machine. Roland doesn’t warn you, so I will. The memory you buy will probably not work. There’s only one vendor, Vital Technologies (www.vitaltechnology.com/samplers.html) that Roland US believes can supply working memory at this time. I can’t personally vouch that this is so. Hopefully in the future Roland will post a list of memory products that will work.

Another problem: The add-ons are out of date parts that are quite hard to find. The memory is a throwback to the days of 68K Macs. You’ll want to find an external SCSI CD ROM, but those aren’t easily available any more, especially if you want o buy a new one with a warranty. Roland believes that only certain models of CD ROM will work, but they can’t supply a list yet. The list they’re working on suggests that you buy a new SCSI CDR drive, but waste the "R" part of it. Also, if you want to upgrade the operating system, and you’ll have to, you can only do it via MIDI sysex, and if something screws up while the update is in progress, the machine can’t be descrozzled in the field. This would not be as big a hassle if the machine was already stable and well understood, but it really is more of a beta test unit at this point. A very very cool one, but as I write this, in May 2000, it’s probably wiser to wait a while until some of the early adopters have earned street smarts and there are users groups with web sites to lean on when the going gets rough.

Overall Rating: 1 If it were lost, I’d wait a year and then think about buying one again. By that time there will be cheaper software-based tools to do the same thing. I hate to say it, but overall I regret this purchase. Too much of a headache. Roland should be paying me to be the first on the block to figure this stuff out. The worst case of early adopter syndrome I’ve run across in the synth world.


Rating: 1 out of 5 posted Thursday-Jul-13-2000 at 14:19
nubey a professional user from USA writes:

Do these really sound that bad? And at $2600 it's got to be plastic fantastiic, not... My local studio has one, but I've never actually seen it used.. Why is new roland gear always so darned expensive -- I still remember paying almost $800 for an MC-303 (me=sucker)...
Seems like a really good idea, to have realtime timestretching/slowing and all the other neat effects it provides but currently the price is plain stupid, and the reviews have been anything but glowing... so I just don't know --- 3 marks I guess...

-nubey


Rating: 3 out of 5 posted Thursday-Jul-13-2000 at 11:46
Nikolai Papas Paninni@mikos.net.gr a professional user from Santorini Island, Greece writes:

YOU CAN NOT SAMPLE LESS THAN ANYTHING LESS THAN 120 bpm BECAUSE THE SAMPLES DRIFT OUT OF TUME NO MATTER WHAT SETTING YOU HAVE IT ON. THIS THING REMINDS ME OF HOW BAD THE FIZMO WAS. Woops sorry, the caps lock was on. ANYWAYS, the quality of the sound is so poor. It does exactly what Acid does but ALOT worse because the pitch shifting on this degrades the quality of samples to that of one of those 99¢ samplers that come in Hallmark greeting cards. My studio bought 2 of them on a whim, our engineer read the manual and sampled random bpm loops from his cd's and current loops that were in his player . Guess what , the out come sucked when you did more than two loops especially over 120 bpm. After that the processor starts to lag and will freeze up if the khz is above 29. We have tried everything but we think it just left the factory a year too soon. Wait a couple of years for another company to get it right. What is compounded by this sad machine is it's price tag. You see , even if it was priced to the general public at $299 it still would be a TERRIBLE investment. At $2600 you could by the BEST computer at 1000mhz , a CD-r , Antares Auto-Tuner, and a ton of software , and 500 extra to pick yourself up a DSS-1 for added effect if you so choose.
Anyways , to sum it up , the price is way way too high for something that just plain does not do it's job. Even if you are a studio and can afford to buy 1 or 2 like we did , you will never use it if you want your productions to be of any substantial quality. Poor syncing of tempos, TERRIBLE PITCH SHIFTING (UNDERLINING PROBLEM), cut-rate quality from underpaid labour (it really shows....this may have been made in some Laotian guys' bathtub which also doubled as a part-time meth lab), terrible sound quality, and the inability to make anything of musical or non-musical variety.

We have already sent both of ours back and are still waiting for the credit. Too bad there wasn't an review for us to read.

Thank you Nick and Sonic-State.

and Hello from Greece!!



Rating: 1 out of 5 posted Wednesday-Jul-12-2000 at 19:58
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I am not sure that the new XV workstations will have huge touch-screen. Roland seem to be quite conventional here. The XV-88 even has a two-liner! That is a bit too old-fashioned, IMHO. The VA is a totally different instrument, and may have a totally different design from the new XVs.

Unit cost is an extremely important issue here. Roland would probably not want the workstation to be too expensive. That could mean bye-bye user-sampling. Or they may release several versions with more or less features.

I think the new XVs will look much like the XV-88, only with 61/76 semiweighted keys. Because of the complexity of a workstation compared to a "normal" synth, it will probably get a bigger display. The other capabilities would probably be on level with XV-88/3080. Perhaps a few more expansions.

It would be typical for Roland if they had a sound-module (XV-5080) as their most advanced synthesizer.

These were my guesses and prophecies.. :-)

StigF

Rather than simply speculating about what Roland (or any other company) MIGHT be bringing out over the next few months (and then finding out it was something quite different anyway!), why don't we all (myself included) just hold on to our knickers and make do with what is already out there!!!!!

But anyway, my 'vision' of the new Roland workstation will be-

a). XV3080 synthe engine, effects and expansion capabilities coupled with the 5080 screen (for easier editing), 4 outputs at the back plus a dedicated click output (like XP80- great idea Roland!). Personally, I doubt Roland will add sampling and JP capabilities to the workstations (the price would be ridiculously expensive at present).

b). The sequencer will have much the same capabilities as their MC80 hardware sequencer- this alone would make it probably the best workstation sequencer out there!

c). Choice of 61 or 76 unweighted keys- as mentioned somewhere above.

I was at a few shops the other day and they still had XP60's and XP80's being displayed for the full price!!!! This is here in Australia so it doesn't look like any new Roland workstation will be appearing here soon. There's not even mention of any new Roland workstation at the Frankfurt Musicmesse. Lets just say that Roland will no doubt bring a new workstation of one sort or another out within the next 12 months! (so will Korg, Yamaha etc etc). And guess what- an even newer more sexier workation from the above will be with us in the years 2003, 2006, 2009 etc etc etc! (yes it seems to me that they keep their top line synthes current for 2-3 years these days).

Just my 2 cents worth! All the best.

Korgasm-


I agree completely. I dislike my techno lust. I also feel it has made me less of a musician.

As for the new Roland synths, you are better off getting an effects unit and a sampler to compliemnt your 2080's and 1080's. There really is no difference.


Whats nice about the Triton is it has a good sampler built into it, so it will never go "out of date". It will always be a good producing machine.

If I didnt have the Triton, I would definately have an xp-50 with expansion cards, sampler, and effects box. This will get you farther than any new Roland synth will.

If I had the 1080,2080, I would really be spending my time finding good deals on samplers.

Good point Arvon45- The Triton's sampler really does open it up to limitless sounds (I wish for internal resampling though).

You definetly have a very sour taste in your mouth from Roland and I don't blame you for the crappy way you were treated!!

I would feel the same way. Apparently there's a Triton Rack on the way and I'm anxious to find out whether it might have some extra features than the keyboard version.

Back to the Roland side of things- I love Roland sounds and I find that Korg and Roland sounds complement each other nicely. I wouldn't be afraid to do all my studio work with just my (fully expanded) Triton and (fully expanded) XV3080!!

Yes Arvon- I did lust over an XP50 but the thing that turned me off buying it was the fact that the bloody thing only had 2 outputs instead of at least 4 or 6 like in the JV modules. Also the sequencer seemed very complicated to me!!

Anyway, enough for now.

Hi Arvin and all,



I beg to differ, Arvin. 128 voice polyphony, new SRX cards, Smart Media, new DAC's/audio processing (giving the lowest noise floor of any synth in the class), faster internal processors, 1st synth with COSM effects and amp modelling (what guitarists have been raving about in their effects units), matrix modelling, 4-level velocity switching.



The 5080 is not a sampler, BTW: sample playback, only, if loaded with RAM. The 5080 is not the choice if you want to make your own: it uses the Roland/Akai samples, so you have access to a huge library.

I've got an old Prophet 2002 rackmount sampler lying around, ready to be sold: I'd say it's "out of date" (although analog control with LFO's over digital 12-bit samples is what some people desire, for the retro- sound).

My point: ALL electronic technology goes 'out of date' in a few years (despite claims of manufacturer's commitment to preventing obsolescence). I'm not saying there's no music left in the older gear, just there's always a 'better, more powerful' machine in the neighborhood.

For a head-to-head comparison of the 5080 to the competition (including Korg's gear), go to:
http://lakewoodsoftware.com/XV-5080/

then click on 'competition'.

Regards,
Chris

[This message has been edited by feefer (edited 07-19-2000).]

Chris-


No offense, but that site is a bunch of crap.

Not exactly "in-depth" if you know what I mean.

The comparisons were a paragraph long, with no testing at all.

It's interesting that they are comparing a rack mount to synths with actual keys attached.

As for the COSM effects, I have heard them extensively. I am in a joint production with a guitar player. I have frequently sat in with him and other guitarists.

The COSM effects are not that good. Roland has a real knack for hyping the heck out of everything.

As for the 128 polyphony, lets not forget that the good Roland sounds require 4 parts, which effectively and MASSIVELY reduces your polyphony. Everyone always complains about "timing problems" on roland synths, when in fact they are running out of notes.
This is a common problem with the xp and jv synths.

The Triton doesn't work that way, and neither does the Kurzweil. The polyphony is basically TRUE polyphony. Roalnd really has to stack those sounds, thus creating huge polyphony defficiencies.


Lastly, the 5080 isn't anything new, at all.

Hi Arvon and all,

No offense taken: it's not my site!! Although I don't agree with your assessment: lots of info presented with a nice web design.

No testing is possible, since the guy who created it doesn't have access to the unit yet: they just shipped last week. That's why he states he's comparing specs, only.

As far as COSM: yeah, I agree it is gimmicky. I have it on my V-Drums, and find it easy to use: that's the main advantage. I haven't heard the amp modeling applied to guitar or bass samples, yet.


As for the 128 polyphony: the 5080 and XV-88 both have four-level velocity switching: most performances use 4 different patches, not layered, but velocity-switched. Therefore, polyphony is not reduced, like you suggest, since you're just hearing one patch at any given time. That's how many of the SRX pianos are set: four samples taken at four velocity levels, and not just a filter opening up to make it seem louder (like many synths do).

You can layer four sounds on the XV's as you mention, but there's only so far you can go with stacking sounds like that: velocity-switching sounds much more realistic, if set up properly.

Re: "timing problems": I've got a Roland A-90EX (with VE-RD1) that has problems with layering internal sounds: thick 4-zoned performances played with cluster chords sound like mush, due to sluggish timing. (All fingers hit keys simultaneously, but an arpeggio comes out . I didn't get this while demo'ing the XV-88 with thick performances. Why? Faster internal processing, I'd guess.

We'll all have to wait and see how good or bad the XV-5080 is: it's all just conjecture, at this point. (Besides, none of this has anything to do with making music, anywway)

Regards,

Chris

Korgasm-

What Triton expansion boards do you have, and how do you rate them. I appreciate any comments!

Thanks,

Arvon

Arvon45, Feefer and others-

This post goes to show that whilst we all have differing opinions with regards to gear etc, we are respecting each others opinions and constructively discussing reasons for differing in what we believe! This is good!

Arvon45- I have the piano and studio essentials boards (the 1st 2 released). Basically, I see them as being an extension to some of the (IMHO) weaker waveforms of the Triton such as the acoustic pianos and some of the brass and woodwinds.

I really like both boards although I was not convinced about the studio essentials board until I auditioned it properly through a good sound system.

The piano/keyboards board has IMHO some great EP and hammond sounds. The acoustic pianos are miles ahead of what is in the stock Triton but they are definetly NOT the best sounding piano sounds I've heard from a synthe when soloed. In a mix however, they sit beautifully!! I'm glad to see that the Trinity's piano sound is also there. Whilst it wasn't the best piano sound, it is just so playable IMHO. If you only use a Triton as your main axe and want better pianos then definatly get this board.

The Studio essentials boards is more orchestral with a few world, sax, guitar and accordian sounds thrown in. The choirs are very nice and when properly articulated really sound great. Same for the strings. The Korg strings IMHO are not as warm as the Rolands but they are more realistic. I particularly like the low cellos patches and I use them alot. The brass is much better here than what the stock Triton offers and I love the jazz trumpet. Same goes for the flutes and saxes. I do wish that Korg added some more acoustic drum kits and sounds to this board however and left of same of the more 'world' type sounds which don't really appeal to me.

Both these boards have some fantastic combinations to try out!

I have also heard the 2 new boards. One is a loop based board which IMHO is a load of crap. No new sounds- just some OK loops. Better of buying a sample CD for much cheaper and loading loops into the Triton sampler. The 4th board 'Dance Extreme' I think it's called is awesome and I only regret not having an extra slot to add this board. There are some great new drum kits here and the combinations (nearly all of them!) make you want to write songs!!!!! Definetly worth getting!

Anyway, this is a Roland site so I better sign off now before people start complaining!! All the best. Korgasm.

I don't know if I'd agree that Roland's layering of tones on their XP/JV synth patches "massively reduces polyphony". The majority of the preset patches on the XP synths are comprised of fewer than four tones, including many with only one or two tones. Isn't Triton's polyphony "oscillator"-based? Is its functional polyphony more like 31 "notes"? And as far as timing problems in the XPs go, I think it is a polyphony issue and I think that it is MIDI control features (that can often be disabled without affecting the sound of the sequence) that probably consume the polyphony so easily.

As far as Roland's upcoming workstations...I can't imagine that they'll be anything that spectacular. For a hobbyist like me, I can't justify spending over $1000 for some upgraded features that won't really make much of a difference in how my songs ultimately sound (in my car and home CD players).

I definitely don't agree about the consumption of polyphony on the JV/XP/XV units. As wilkes said, the sounds normally use two tones at most. Even with that, if you crave more polyphony, you can turn off a few tones in the sounds to get maximum productivity if you may.

As for the 128 Note Poly. in the newer XVs, it would help older JV/XP sequences as the XVs contain the old XP soundset. One could take advantage of the increase in polyphony. Personally, I wouldn't get an XV. I'm very happy with my XP60, which I got for $850 USD brand new in April.

I do agree however about the Sampling Issue. The older Ensoniq TS10s and MK61s have some sample ROM on board. While they can't sample themselves, the Flash ROM does extand the uselfulness of those machines when newer products come out.

The Trinity, Triton, Almost All Ensoniq keybaords, the Yamaha SYs and even the General Musics have this option. This is why I hope that Roland does release the Roland SRJV80-20 Sample ROM Expansion Board that I've been hearing about so much. Even if we were restricted to only Roland samples, then I could care less.

If that idea is still in development, one easy way that we could access new samples could be via a good utility such as the one that converts SYSEX files into .MID files. There could be one that converts RDAC or .WAV files to .MID files to send to the Sample ROM board.

The ealier XP50s had Flash ROM OSs so one could upgrade the synth's OS via Floppy. Just something to think about.

The new XVs may have a polyphony issue when talking about Velocity switching and using stereo tones. Mainly because when you stirke a chord, not every note you hit will be a the same velocity, so more tones infact will be consumed as you play.

The Infamous EPU.

Korgasm-


Thanks alot for your detailed reply.

Sounds like the Dance board is the one to get!

Does the dance board have any good spacey choirs?

I prefer trippy organic sounds. But if the dance board is that good, I will get it.

Also what sample cd's do you recommend?

Just mail me at michael12@mindspring.com or post the answer to the Triton-zr1 forum at this site.


Sorry to all readers who had to read about Triton in Roland forum.

Arvon