Hi Arvin and all,



I beg to differ, Arvin. 128 voice polyphony, new SRX cards, Smart Media, new DAC's/audio processing (giving the lowest noise floor of any synth in the class), faster internal processors, 1st synth with COSM effects and amp modelling (what guitarists have been raving about in their effects units), matrix modelling, 4-level velocity switching.



The 5080 is not a sampler, BTW: sample playback, only, if loaded with RAM. The 5080 is not the choice if you want to make your own: it uses the Roland/Akai samples, so you have access to a huge library.

I've got an old Prophet 2002 rackmount sampler lying around, ready to be sold: I'd say it's "out of date" (although analog control with LFO's over digital 12-bit samples is what some people desire, for the retro- sound).

My point: ALL electronic technology goes 'out of date' in a few years (despite claims of manufacturer's commitment to preventing obsolescence). I'm not saying there's no music left in the older gear, just there's always a 'better, more powerful' machine in the neighborhood.

For a head-to-head comparison of the 5080 to the competition (including Korg's gear), go to:
http://lakewoodsoftware.com/XV-5080/

then click on 'competition'.

Regards,
Chris

[This message has been edited by feefer (edited 07-19-2000).]

Chris-


No offense, but that site is a bunch of crap.

Not exactly "in-depth" if you know what I mean.

The comparisons were a paragraph long, with no testing at all.

It's interesting that they are comparing a rack mount to synths with actual keys attached.

As for the COSM effects, I have heard them extensively. I am in a joint production with a guitar player. I have frequently sat in with him and other guitarists.

The COSM effects are not that good. Roland has a real knack for hyping the heck out of everything.

As for the 128 polyphony, lets not forget that the good Roland sounds require 4 parts, which effectively and MASSIVELY reduces your polyphony. Everyone always complains about "timing problems" on roland synths, when in fact they are running out of notes.
This is a common problem with the xp and jv synths.

The Triton doesn't work that way, and neither does the Kurzweil. The polyphony is basically TRUE polyphony. Roalnd really has to stack those sounds, thus creating huge polyphony defficiencies.


Lastly, the 5080 isn't anything new, at all.

Hi Arvon and all,

No offense taken: it's not my site!! Although I don't agree with your assessment: lots of info presented with a nice web design.

No testing is possible, since the guy who created it doesn't have access to the unit yet: they just shipped last week. That's why he states he's comparing specs, only.

As far as COSM: yeah, I agree it is gimmicky. I have it on my V-Drums, and find it easy to use: that's the main advantage. I haven't heard the amp modeling applied to guitar or bass samples, yet.


As for the 128 polyphony: the 5080 and XV-88 both have four-level velocity switching: most performances use 4 different patches, not layered, but velocity-switched. Therefore, polyphony is not reduced, like you suggest, since you're just hearing one patch at any given time. That's how many of the SRX pianos are set: four samples taken at four velocity levels, and not just a filter opening up to make it seem louder (like many synths do).

You can layer four sounds on the XV's as you mention, but there's only so far you can go with stacking sounds like that: velocity-switching sounds much more realistic, if set up properly.

Re: "timing problems": I've got a Roland A-90EX (with VE-RD1) that has problems with layering internal sounds: thick 4-zoned performances played with cluster chords sound like mush, due to sluggish timing. (All fingers hit keys simultaneously, but an arpeggio comes out . I didn't get this while demo'ing the XV-88 with thick performances. Why? Faster internal processing, I'd guess.

We'll all have to wait and see how good or bad the XV-5080 is: it's all just conjecture, at this point. (Besides, none of this has anything to do with making music, anywway)

Regards,

Chris

Korgasm-

What Triton expansion boards do you have, and how do you rate them. I appreciate any comments!

Thanks,

Arvon

Arvon45, Feefer and others-

This post goes to show that whilst we all have differing opinions with regards to gear etc, we are respecting each others opinions and constructively discussing reasons for differing in what we believe! This is good!

Arvon45- I have the piano and studio essentials boards (the 1st 2 released). Basically, I see them as being an extension to some of the (IMHO) weaker waveforms of the Triton such as the acoustic pianos and some of the brass and woodwinds.

I really like both boards although I was not convinced about the studio essentials board until I auditioned it properly through a good sound system.

The piano/keyboards board has IMHO some great EP and hammond sounds. The acoustic pianos are miles ahead of what is in the stock Triton but they are definetly NOT the best sounding piano sounds I've heard from a synthe when soloed. In a mix however, they sit beautifully!! I'm glad to see that the Trinity's piano sound is also there. Whilst it wasn't the best piano sound, it is just so playable IMHO. If you only use a Triton as your main axe and want better pianos then definatly get this board.

The Studio essentials boards is more orchestral with a few world, sax, guitar and accordian sounds thrown in. The choirs are very nice and when properly articulated really sound great. Same for the strings. The Korg strings IMHO are not as warm as the Rolands but they are more realistic. I particularly like the low cellos patches and I use them alot. The brass is much better here than what the stock Triton offers and I love the jazz trumpet. Same goes for the flutes and saxes. I do wish that Korg added some more acoustic drum kits and sounds to this board however and left of same of the more 'world' type sounds which don't really appeal to me.

Both these boards have some fantastic combinations to try out!

I have also heard the 2 new boards. One is a loop based board which IMHO is a load of crap. No new sounds- just some OK loops. Better of buying a sample CD for much cheaper and loading loops into the Triton sampler. The 4th board 'Dance Extreme' I think it's called is awesome and I only regret not having an extra slot to add this board. There are some great new drum kits here and the combinations (nearly all of them!) make you want to write songs!!!!! Definetly worth getting!

Anyway, this is a Roland site so I better sign off now before people start complaining!! All the best. Korgasm.

I don't know if I'd agree that Roland's layering of tones on their XP/JV synth patches "massively reduces polyphony". The majority of the preset patches on the XP synths are comprised of fewer than four tones, including many with only one or two tones. Isn't Triton's polyphony "oscillator"-based? Is its functional polyphony more like 31 "notes"? And as far as timing problems in the XPs go, I think it is a polyphony issue and I think that it is MIDI control features (that can often be disabled without affecting the sound of the sequence) that probably consume the polyphony so easily.

As far as Roland's upcoming workstations...I can't imagine that they'll be anything that spectacular. For a hobbyist like me, I can't justify spending over $1000 for some upgraded features that won't really make much of a difference in how my songs ultimately sound (in my car and home CD players).

I definitely don't agree about the consumption of polyphony on the JV/XP/XV units. As wilkes said, the sounds normally use two tones at most. Even with that, if you crave more polyphony, you can turn off a few tones in the sounds to get maximum productivity if you may.

As for the 128 Note Poly. in the newer XVs, it would help older JV/XP sequences as the XVs contain the old XP soundset. One could take advantage of the increase in polyphony. Personally, I wouldn't get an XV. I'm very happy with my XP60, which I got for $850 USD brand new in April.

I do agree however about the Sampling Issue. The older Ensoniq TS10s and MK61s have some sample ROM on board. While they can't sample themselves, the Flash ROM does extand the uselfulness of those machines when newer products come out.

The Trinity, Triton, Almost All Ensoniq keybaords, the Yamaha SYs and even the General Musics have this option. This is why I hope that Roland does release the Roland SRJV80-20 Sample ROM Expansion Board that I've been hearing about so much. Even if we were restricted to only Roland samples, then I could care less.

If that idea is still in development, one easy way that we could access new samples could be via a good utility such as the one that converts SYSEX files into .MID files. There could be one that converts RDAC or .WAV files to .MID files to send to the Sample ROM board.

The ealier XP50s had Flash ROM OSs so one could upgrade the synth's OS via Floppy. Just something to think about.

The new XVs may have a polyphony issue when talking about Velocity switching and using stereo tones. Mainly because when you stirke a chord, not every note you hit will be a the same velocity, so more tones infact will be consumed as you play.

The Infamous EPU.

Korgasm-


Thanks alot for your detailed reply.

Sounds like the Dance board is the one to get!

Does the dance board have any good spacey choirs?

I prefer trippy organic sounds. But if the dance board is that good, I will get it.

Also what sample cd's do you recommend?

Just mail me at michael12@mindspring.com or post the answer to the Triton-zr1 forum at this site.


Sorry to all readers who had to read about Triton in Roland forum.

Arvon