Zuki someone has to be right here?....


which is it!!?

Donny, very few would be a better explanation.

Well at least in my experience anyway, (and Zuki's obviously).

Truth is if this were the issue that has been implied, it would be all over the Korg forums, as a major "must-do" update for Korg.

I believe most if not all the Korg forum members are quite silent about this supposed "issue", and they too seem to have no problems.

Also you can hit the fill in the middle of the bar to get a simple 2 beat fill if you want, and as you would also know, you can double hit the fill to have it repeat, same with the intros and the break button. the last one (break) I found very useful at times, particularly with those breaks that just have a stab on the first beat.

So a claim that you HAVE to hit fills only on the downbeat is also erroneous.

Dennis

OK, Boys...here is the facts.

1) There is some styles that they PURPOSELY programmed that on fill 2 you get a loud fill to either the same Var or the new one you select after the fill. You don't have to use it. Fill 1 is typically a soft fill.
Not all styles have the loud fill. It's ok for some music, not cool for others...but you can use fill 1

2) In the style control parms (page 119 of the manual)for when either you make your own style OR modify a factory style(YES, you can overwrite a factory style IF the lock is off) there is an option for WHEN the fill comes in...on the 1st beat or immediate. It is called Cue Mode. Your choice by fill per style.

Default I believe on most factory styles is immediate, that way you can get a partial fill if you want.

Some of the fills (SOME) do sound poor if you fill in the middle of a measure, others do not. You need to check to see how a particuar style fill sounds before using it live (Duh). If you don't like it working that way...you can change it and re-save it.

Since there is some of these things...and I had a T2 before...the Yamaha style system is in a way smoother OVERALL. BUT, if you know what your doing the Korg system is fine. It is different than the T2/T3 so it takes a little open minded learning.

I would prefer a GLOBAL menu option to be able to make them all start at first beat, but I am only one guy.

Oh, by the way all intos, Vars, and endings aways start at the meaxt measure (beat 1). So the fills is always the buggaboo if any.

3) Also, one other thing on the Korg. There is no auto fill. So if you are in let's say Var B and you go to Var C it goes to Var c on the next measure. There is no autofill to Var C. But, If you want a fill to Var C then you hit fill (1,2,3) and then Var C button. Then you get a fill to Var C.
A plus is you select the actual fill not the keyboard. So it is more flexible...but you have to do the fill yourself.
A plus is you don't have to do a fill at all.
I wish it had a autofill OPTION on a menue, so you could get autofill if you want, and you could select on that menu which fill to use.

I hope this all helps a little?

And it re-itterates...there is no perfect arranger...they are different.
Lee

[This message has been edited by leeboy (edited 11-04-2008).]

Hi,
if a player has problems hitting a fill at the correct time, you just go into style record mode, choose the fill causing the problem, change Cue 2 from "immediate" to " next measure, first measure". Write to user style.
Doesn't matter when you hit the fill then, it won't trigger till the begginning of the next bar, no glitches if you hit the fill at the wrong time.

Personally haven't really had any hassles with the fills.

best wishes
Rikki

Thats too bad that Korg still has that problem with the fill-ins. When I had the Pa80 that was a big problem. Also most stop hitting the fill-in buttons because of the down beat or they tend to be long and out of sync. I don't remember them having that problem on the older models i3, ix300,??



[This message has been edited by mc (edited 11-04-2008).]

Two fills and a break fill were fine in the days of two variation arrangers. Things, however, have moved on...

Yamaha have six and a break fill, Roland have seven and a break/mute (not as good as a break/fill, IMO). But the truth is, if you had a fill for each possible transition, you would need 16 (including fill-to -same, 12 if you don't have one of those). So things are far from perfect, but as anyone that has played a conversion style from a Korg on a Yammie or Roland, just having the two fills sounds VERY strange... Kind of a trip back in time.

Leeboy has nailed it, as far as tracking the trouble down... It's all about PARTIAL fills. Every arranger can do partial fills. You hit the fill button on the two or the three, you get a partial fill, or 'pick-up' as a drummer would call it. But for a pick-up to work, it has to blend reasonably smoothly with the bar that it is PART OF...

And a two fill system only blends in with HALF of the available Variations. So two of your variations, you'd better NOT ask for a pick-up. Trouble is, as the Korg owners point out, not all styles suffer equally (depending, I guess, on how much variation there is from variation to variation ). So it's a minefield, with no warning signs...

And also, I'm sorry, but the universal way of triggering fills has been, almost since arrangers came out, that the fill triggers IMMEDIATELY, for precisely the reason of giving the player the control of whether it is a full bar fill, or half bar pick-up. So offering the band-aid of setting your fills to have to be called up in advance is a very poor solution, and one that few players, used to having instant-on for fills, will be comfortable using.

It is LONG past time for Korg to step into the 21st century with this, one of the last arranger features that it's competitors completely outshine. They made considerable efforts to provide an OS that offers SA-type functionality. But, to be honest, this lack of fills is a FAR more primary shortcoming...

It is counterproductive for Korg users to keep 'defending' this flaw. It'll get fixed a LOT faster if you make noise about it and quit downplaying it's significance. And then there'll be NOTHING left for the rest to crow about!

thanks for the replies on this topic,

when i played on the PA 800 in the shop, i pretty much went through all the styles that are important to me and i was 100% satisfied with the fills. I never once noticed any glitches or issues and i was actually looking for it because I have heard of people mentioning on this forum about Korg being infamous for its non-smooth fills / breaks.

but like i said, i was completely satisfied and didnt notice any issues with the styles that were important to me.

cheers,
Nick

Do you trigger fills a bar in advance, or do you often do the 'pick-up' type where you wait until the two or the three?

I am still confused about the reported timing problems on a few styles. Does this happen because of a large number of Tone changes and parameter changes glitch the start of the fill if they are poorly matched? Do PA arrangers have glitch-less patch changes, or does the sound cutoff if you change from one tone to another on the same channel? I know my Triton cuts off....

Or is it because of the wrong mode being employed? (don't Korg's have a mode that jumps to beat 1 of a fill the second you hit the fill, regardless of where you are in the bar when you hit it? handy for Middle easter non regular time signatures...). That might cause the unwary to assume it's a fault with the arranger, when it might simply be a fault in the style.

You would have thought, by now, that someone would have tracked the issue down... mind you with all the owners (or most, at least) so hell-bent on denying the issue even exists, it must be tough to make yourself try to track down a problem you are reticent to even acknowledge...

Nick G,
Yes, I agree i's not a showstopper at all...

BUT DIKI, I also agree with you that it needs attention and an upgrade.

All they have to do is provide a auto fill for each Variation, and the Fill 1,2,3/break can still be used as special fills/breaks in addition to the auto fills (like Yamaha)

If EVERYONE would scream about it it would be changed. One reason I think it is ignored is if I understand correctly...over in the mid-east (a large market for Korg) some/lots of folks don't even use the styles/fills...their left hand is too busy on the joystick using pitch bend/??

Still there is a lot of owners n other paces that would like it to work a little smoother at times.

There is so many things I like about the PA...(like 76 great keys) it's not a show stopper for me.

Diki, Oh, it's not a minefield..but you need to know what styles/fills to use based on the sound you want. Most are really fine. But yes once in a while a fill does not work too well with a particuar VAR.


Lee

I guess I do both really.. most of the time i like to hit the fill button right at the start of the bar so i get the full 4 beat fill, but there are other times were i might hit it half way just for the quick fill.