Sorry Paul, but it wasn't too far from the topic. Why not just use the computer to make music. There are a lot of very good sound cards out there such as the SW1000XG which has essentially the same synth as the high end Yamaha keyboards. XGworks is a very good sequencer for this card. Cakewalk Home Studio is a very powerful sequencer for the price or even Cakewalk Express which is very cheap. Any old midi keyboard will do as a midi controller if you need one.

Bryan

Ok Bryan, no problem, thaks for the information.

For a beginner's use I would rate BIAB as practical and time saving, although it is not quite as educational as I would wish. I would say however that it is educational.
Cloak, for you or I BIAB may get the doo doo rating, but that is because we are beyond the juncture of where BIAB is feasible. I edit wav's. I write my own FFT's and xfm files. It would be like me looking for an OEM preset effect in cool edit for an echo or whatever. It's not feasible when my own are three times cleaner right?
MORPH!

I take it that Band in a Box is something to consider then.

Find a demo first, BIAB used to have demo versions availible, if they don't, then ****ing pirate it. If you like electronic music, BIAB is not for you. BIAB is for tonedeaf mongoloids with no taste in music whatsoever who literally want the computer to make the music for them. I've heard of these "styles" in the "arranger" sense and it honestly sounds like crap to me. If you're going to let a computer make music for you, at least let it be fractals.

Anyway - since I've come out so strongly against BIAB, I guess I'm somehow obligated to list alternatives. Fruity Loops is a "toy" program that I'm actually very fond of, and if it's price ever dropped from $100 to something like $20, I'd buy it for shits and giggles. Reason is a step above FL, but I've never touched it - still might be worth looking into. If nothing else, pirate an old copy of Rebirth, as much as I hate that program it's 100,000 times better than Ass-Sandwich In A Box.

What do I use? I sequence an Ensoniq ASR-10, an Ensoniq Fizmo, and a Korg MS2000Rack with Logic Gold 4.8. I also use Logic's plug-in sampler, EXS24, along with Reaktor as virtual instruments. In my opinion, and this is entirely subjective, this is the best setup. Of course, if you're just beginning, I would not advise Logic or Reaktor for a newbie as they're both very complicated. I started out on ScreamTracker, but I would not advise anyone doing that as you'd likely spend most of your time learning how to program in hex, which is a waste, really. But I also started playing string bass and saxophone when I was 8, years before I ever touched a computer, so I had a little bit of music knowledge by the time I got to that point.

Other suggestions you may get are things like Cubase and Cakewalk/Sonar, which are sequencers just like Logic. You might try tackling a MIDI sequencer, but I think the absolute free form they offer might overwhelm you if you don't know much about musicianship and songwriting. Step sequencing in a program is the way I think you should go for now, not only would it be easier to get your ideas out that way, but it also seems to fit more into the popular/dance electronic music aesthetic.

Of course, if when you say "electronic music" you mean stuff like Iannis Xenakis, then you're already in too deep.

You can make something being anywhere on the continuum from "know nothing of music" to "Brahms studied under me", but where you are on the continuum will determine how much of yourself is really in the final product.

Near the "know nothing..." end of the spectrum is Acid using the included stock of samples - true drag-and-drop "creation." (MTV has marketed an even simpler version of this which I've seen in middle school general music classes - can't remember the name, but 6-graders with little musical background can produce something with it!) A little further along would be BIAB. I suspect Cloakboy's reaction to it is more stylistic criticism than anything - I'm sympathetic, but I'd put Fruity Loops at about the same level. Fruity Loops is more groove oriented whereas BIAB produces cutesy chord progressions and childish arpeggiation, hence it's pretty out of step with current music trends.

From there you'd go to sequencing - sampled loops and synths driven by MIDI files generated from a simple software package (the step-wise suggestion eliminates the need for playing skills, but not musical knowledge). By the time you get to Sonar or Cubase, you're going to have to seriously know something about music.

In general...do what makes you happy. If you can't find a comfortable and satisfying place for yourself on the above continuum with your current level of knowledge, the best way to improve yourself is to find musicians who know more than you, and pursue their company. (Preferably "warm bodies" rather than us virtual folks - there's a limit how much you can learn about music from text bulletin boards!) Music is, more than anything else, an oral and personal tradition, and you learn best from others who are further along.

I wan to thank evryone for their oppions and advice. I tahs really given me something to think about.

Fruity Loops can be utilized as a serious musical tool... Ass-sandwich in a Box can't. People can go beyond the obvious with Fruity Loops, and while limiting in many ways, it can still be used to make innovative music. Plus FL by itself can sound good to the average listener. None of this is true with Ass In A Box.

[This message has been edited by Cloakboy (edited 01-12-2003).]

So your saying I should look into buying Fruity Loops then?

Find a demo version first if they offer one. Try before you buy, see if you can figure out how to make it control your hardware synths (I'm pretty sure FL can).