Atlast Tyros3 is now available in India and very soon i'm going to buy this keyboard.I have one question-Just like organ drawbars adjustment,is it possible to adjust accompaniment section-rhythm1,rhythm2,bass,chord etc volume with the sliders? please clarify.

Thanks,
Sunny

Yes, Sunny...you can adjust those parameters with the panel sliders.

Ian

AS well as the 16 track "mixer" and its functions. A welcome convenience. A longer throw would have been nice but then they would have had to either move them from their best position or make the board a couple inches deeper.

Ian& Kingfrog,
Thanks for your clarification.I have another question-Is there any tempo lock feature in Tyros3?that means even if i stop and select another style,the tempo value should not change.Is this possible?
I hope you will clarify.

Thanks,
Sunny



[This message has been edited by sunny152 (edited 11-14-2008).]

There is a tempo "hold" which lets you select a new style while playing and the tempo will not change.

However, if you stop playing, and select a new style, it will have the default tempo for that style.

Ian

Ian,
In Korg PA series keyboards,there is one tempo lock button,when it is on,the tempo value remain same even we stop and select another style.This is very convenient.I can't understand Why Yamaha overlooked this feature? I hope they will solve the problem in their future upgrades.

Sunny

sunny,

I think you still have to go into the Panel mixer and go to the style parts section before you can use the sliders to adjust the different parts.

Can someone confirm?

Al

Of course you do, Al...that's normal protocol on all Yamahas.

Ian

You can ONLY adjust them when you are open to the VOLUME mixer page. You cannot assign the assignable slider to these functions.

If you ask me, that makes the sliders pretty much useless.

Uuuh, ALL Yamahas? I believe the T3 is the FIRST Yamaha arranger with sliders...

Maybe to you, Chony...they seem pretty useful to everyone else, including me...of course, there's always the few exceptions.

Glad you're happy with your T3.

Ian

You're right Chony...the T3 is the first one with sliders...I stand corrected.

The protocol is for sliders and/or the buttons under the screen.

Ian

I think the sliders on my new T3 are not well implemented. First off, Yamaha should make it so you can assign any of the sliders to anything you want on the Main page. I want to be able to control drum & percussion volumes and still be able to control right voice volumes. As Ian mentions, you must go into the Mixer page to control these. BUT, they are on different pages and you can not go directly to these pages. You must cycle through all 4 pages by repeated button pushing. This is not something easy to do while playing. It's poor.

Yamaha missed the boat on this. Korg has it down much better. I really hope Yamaha looks into improving this feature with an OS update that might make it actually useful for live playing. At the very least, Yamaha should vastly increase the possible options for the "assignable" slider. Right now, for me, the assignable slider is useless. It can only control 10 specific things, and drums or part volumes are not in the 10. If Yamaha can't improve this feature with an OS update, I guess they will want you to wait 3 years, spend $4k and get the next Tyros.

Tom G.

[This message has been edited by TomTomSF (edited 11-14-2008).]

Yes, slider assignment is superb on Pa.
A great feature.
Ask Yamaha through your distributor to improve the slider functions.
Lee

You guys need to understand something about Yamaha and the TYROS. It is considered and marketed as a HOME/STUDIO keyboard. There is no marketing directed at the Live player.

There is nary a word on the website directed at the Live player or ease of use in such an environment. Yamaha makes these boards for Home users and Studios. They are not as suited for OMB use as the Korg PA2x. Apparently That's not Yamaha's PRIMARY market otherwise they would have had to change a lot of things to make it more live friendly. More like the Motif.

People should stop whining about the Board and get the Korg or maybe even the Roland. Those keyboards are DESIGNED primarily for live use. Especially the KORG with the dual MP3 player cross fading sequencers and numerous other live enhancements. Yamaha had THREE versions to implement the 76 keys everyone wants for live use. Looks like they know their market better or are willing to give up the live market to Korg.(which seems to be having its own issues now)




[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 11-14-2008).]

Chony hates the Tyros 3....I think he bought it for 5 SA2 voices. Why not just use a keyboard one actually likes. Yamaha is not going to make a custom Tyros for live players with "issues" WEll they already have one...Motif X

Yamaha, like the rest, are not going to make anything
unless they gain profit.
Simple rules of business, and nessesary if still stay
alive in any business.
It's not what me and you want who counts, it's what
they think will sell in largest volumes, and after all,
it's the home market who are in majority when sell the
autocomp arranger keyboards.

Happy Playing
GJ

Profit is always the name of the game...some just have different tactics than others.

You're right about the home market...it is the mainstay of any arranger maker...home users are in the majority, although many professionals are clever enough to utilize arrangers in OMB, duos, studio work, song writing...the list goes on.

Ian

That's true, and maybe Yamaha should make a T3Pro to top the arranger
line?
76 keys (SD1 and G-70 keys/keybed are real good), also listen to what
users at several fora wish to have onboard.
Guess the price will rise quite a lot, probably at "Audya level".

I can see T3 are announced to lower price here now, ordinary 33000 N.Kr.
(4853 US$), most shops take 29900 N.Kr. (4397 US$) and now it's even
lower, 26900 N.Kr. (3955 US$)
Second hand T2 now goes between 15000 and 17000 N.Kr. (2200 - 2500 US$)

Hmm, maybe a anti Yammie as me should start look for a item to add?

Happy Playing
GJ

I only play at home for my own entertainment and fun. Guess what? Everything is play is "live". I don't sequence, play midi files, etc. I consider everyone who plays an instrument as playing live. Why would you think someone who plays at home would not want to edit volumes easily? Stop making excuses and listen to what people are saying.

Oh, and by the way. I do own a Korg. A pa1X pro to be precise. That's how come I know it's possible to make really good sliders that work well for ALL musicians.

Tom G.

Cool, Tom! It's nice to see another "live" player on the forum.

Ian

Well said. Agree with all your points.

I don't get you Ian. Why do you defend Yamaha even when they screw up? I also have a T3 (do you btw?), but unlike others, I'm not blinded to its weak spots...

Have you ever used a Korg Pa2x? That's how sliders should work. All assignable (not just 1), FULLY assignable (not just to 10 useless features), and they all work even when you're not on the relevant page (you don't have to cycle through 4 mixer pages to finally use the sliders...)

JMO...

Yes Chony, I have had a T3 for some time now.

I am not defending the T3...I am just saying that I find the sliders very useful for MY needs...I like them better than the buttons.

They also work perfectly as drawbars, something the buttons were sadly poor at.

It's not a difficult process to get to them...not as accessible as the Korg's, perhaps, but easy enough, at least for me.

I have not played any Korg arrangers, so I can't compare...they don't sell them in my area.

If you are so unhappy with the Tyros3...

(a)Why did you buy it? If you didn't test it out in person and find out that the sliders weren't to your liking, then complaining after the fact seems a bit pointless....would you buy a car or other expensive investment without a test drive?

(b)Why do you still have it? If it is not doing what you want, sell it, cut your losses and move on to something that will...no need to be frustrated.


Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 11-16-2008).]

I've only had a Ty3 for 10 days now,so maybe it could change but the impression I get of the sliders is that they have primarily been added as an obvious way to differentiate Ty3 from previous versions and to create "excitement" in the Market Place.
To me it doesn't appear that much thought has been given in the detailed design to what would make them really useful in the sense of a must-use during live performance (or even when editing off line come to that).

In the style part page a movement of only 1mm. produces a 10% level change.
Additionally if a slider hasn't already been initialised (eg. after a style has been selected) and you go to use it you get an unpredictable jump in setting which you have to fight with before you set the adjustment to what you really want.
So basically it seems to me they are too imprecise/risky/distracting to want to use under pressure in live performance unless you're only interested in quickly going to from one extreme setting to another - like 0 to 127 approx. or vice versa.

Sure buttons can be slower, but you're less likely to overshoot, and you can always immediately find the 100 level by pressing the up & down buttons simultaneously.
And if it really is so difficult why not save the alternative settings to a registration for that song for next time where they are instantly selectable at the press of 1 button?

So in concept sliders/drawbars might be a nice idea but this particular implementation IMO doesn't compensate for the downside of having the registration buttons off centre and the Effect buttons off to the extreme right.
..........................................

Hi Tom, you don't have to use multi key presses to get the screen you want. Most can be got by pressing Direct Access followed by another button- admittedly 2 presses

eg.for starters:
DA followed by Style Intro = Style Voice screen
DA + Song Selection I(one) button = Song Channels 1-8

Try a few more for size

John, home user playing mainly live.

How right you are John...I usually use the buttons, and use the sliders primarily for the organ drawbars....I also preferred the registration buttons in the center, under the screen , where they are accessible to either hand.

One of the reasons I like my S900 so much is the layout.

I don't find the extra button press an issue.

Ian

There is no right or wrong but there is a Comfort playing zone that has to be determined by the player only. Suggestions are appreciated but there is nothing better then Real Time experiences by the player to truly see if certain features are correct for a players personal type of playing no matter what unit is being operated. Your love is the next guy's Hate.

Choose smart and good luck.

Hmmmmmmmmmm..., I assumed Yamaha would use the same concept with the T3's sliders as they do on the Motif XS. Are the T3's really that generic and basic? The Motif's don't have a sudden jump. You can grab a slider, make an adjustment and the change will be gradual and not a sudden jump from one setting to the next. Does the T3 not operate this way? Perhaps it's the issue that several of us have already brought up with the sliders having such a short throw to them.


[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 11-16-2008).]

Squeak,
On Ty3 when you first go to a screen (say Style voices) if the slider position does not correspond to say the actual volume that is shown on the screen graphic, the first time you move the slider there will be a jump.
In the extreme case if actual vol=127 and slider position = zero the first time you touch the slider the vol.jumps down to close to zero. So if you want 100 you can't go from 127 to 100. The route becomes 127 to about zero to 100.
Once all sliders are synchronised they will stay so - as long as you stay in that screen and don't get them out of synch again eg. by by altering buttons. Change to a different screen, alter sliders and come back, or change to a different style and they will be out of synch again to a varying extent.
This comes about because the only way the sliders move is by hand - no servo to keep them mechanically in synch
Thinking about it, it might have been better if the software only started actioning level changes once the slider position is moved to the current level - that way involuntary jumps wouldn't happen at least.

John

[This message has been edited by jwyvern (edited 11-16-2008).]

It's not what I am saying. Its YAMAHA! We have asked them about this and they claim have done extensive research on this and have come to the conclusion the OMB market is not big enough to change anything major and as the other builders already cater to that market they are content with their design and market...What's so hard to understand about that? These are not considered PRO Keyboards. They don't build them like the Motifs which are in a different division. If the bulk of their base does not like the slider location they will change them. If the bulk of their base wanted 76 keys, they would make them. Its not that hard. Yamaha does not operate in a vacuum. They know their market. As does Korg and Roland. They like all technologies dribble out new features to keep people like even Chony buying them even though he hates more then he likes about it. There is a good example. He bought even though he complains about it and did not like a lot of what it has become this time around!!!! That speaks volumes.

We live in a destination resort OMB market and no we one uses an Arranger for a living. Working in a music store and having a wife who has been in the music scene and earning her living for 30 years here does not know of anyone using them either, Although she says the bars,restaurants and casino boats would not notice or care if someone brought in a 61 key board Arranger, as long as their customers were buying drinks and enjoying the music. Even with that said I have not sold an Arranger to a professional live player who earns their living solely from playing bars ,clubs,restaurants etc. Its not like we don't have them to sell and don't sell them. Its that we sell them to HOME users and Hispanics who may or may not use them for a living.

If its not happening here in a rich OMB resort area I can accept Yamaha's research as being sound.

Yamaha sells more Arrangers then the others combined in all formats. I think they know what they are doing. You have a choice. You can buy a Yamaha......or not. Apparently they do not have a backlog of old Tyros' on the shelf so their marketing is working as planned. It doesn't matter what dealers are selling them for. They are making a pretty good profit on them even at well under $3899.
Those who sell for far less in quantity are enjoying a handsome profit.

Look at the entire Internet. Research the forums where live players hang out. Nary a word about Arrangers. This is the largest forum of Arranger players I have found and only a handful here claim to make a living using Arrangers live (meaning in public for pay). I spent 15 years in the entertainment industry in Las Vegas and never even heard of a keyboard arranger...as of three years ago. They were "toys" in my ignorant mind. I did not realize myself the power of these things until I began selling them.

The market for live (meaning in public for pay)Arranger players is minuscule in the big scheme of things. I think some of you guys really live in a vacuum.

Now this may be a US thing. I think the US is a major market for Yamaha Arrangers. Korg probably sells more in the rest of the world where OMBs frequently use them.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 11-16-2008).]

I think Yamaha only really market the Tyros to 'home' users. I've never seen any ads for it in Mix or any other studio publication, and a lot of it's MIDI capability seems limited compared to WS's (that ARE aimed at studios). The fact that you CAN use them this way (and you CAN use them as 'pro' live keyboards) is just incidental. They are no more DESIGNED for studio work than they are for live on stage use.

Everything seems to be prioritized for the home user. Especially the advertising.

I guess we are just lucky that they can be used for so much more...

Yeah you are right there. As a pure workstation the Tyros leaves much to be desired, and in that regard the Pro keyboards are far better choices for most major studios,

If I had free access to musicians or could play and arrange all those parts as well as the best I could get by with a Motif. Until some kick ass Arranger Software comes out to match the SW synths available the Tyros will have to do. Its a good thing it can at least send Style MIDI information out. Thats all I need. The data. Anyhing else I can record from the audio out or use a SW synth.

It does change the way I have to do things and pushes me out of a comfortable paradigm. But it also opened a lot of doors to places and inspiration I could not otherwise go.

BTW all this talk about sliders. I don;t see where the G70's sliders are all that much longer under the screen. It appears they designed them to use especially for the Hammond as they are colored as such.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 11-16-2008).]