Sorry to hear that Russ....

Aside from the great service from dealers here on the SZ like Frank, AJ, Dan O, George...I have also have had very good luck with Sweetwater also for gear thru the years. But as you say the hard stuff narrows it down to a few.

Good Luck

ZZounds is the biggest offender. They are always listing their B-Stock prices on Google searches as if they were MAP.

That said I buy outlet notebooks from Dell. Why? becasue they are gone over twice. Once in Mayalsia and again in the US when they are returned. I have never received a bad Notebook from Dell( We have three of them)

Our Store is on two levels, we have 400 guitars displayed, 9 Grand pianos and a host of uprights, and all the Clavinovas a PA/light Room, Band instruments,7 displayed Drumsets and a few electric kits, 200 SF of Sheet Music, A pretty large store in a Mall........and we will not carry any Pro keyboards. We have Roland,Korg, Yamaha and do not carry the Motif,Fantom,or M3 becasue the player's who buy them are looking to demo them in store then buy them on the Internet to save the tax, get better prices and take advantage of the generous return policies. The nearest place to demo those board is 120 miles away at a Guitar Center.

Guitar players are more inclined to buy what they have in their hands, especially the high end.

We compete with prices and can beat Internet prices but the savvy musicians know they can call any place and get a better than MAP price on practically anything. I don;t blame them, but we cannot floor something we won't sell and would rather put something in it's place that will. Home Arrangers sell off the floor becasue the people who buy them need hands on support which I offer free in the store anytime they want and as much as they want free.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 11-30-2008).]

He is just using the store's policy. Can't blame him. He is not doing anything worong or unethical. The store has a policy and they know people will do this. Costco built a fortune on unlimited return policy, but recently changed the electronics policy to a generous 90days and 2 year warranty. I returned an 18 month old plasma and they accepted it. I bought a new one and even saved $500. Paid for my membership for 5 years! LOL

Blemished goods can be a good deal. A few scratches won't hurt, Hell I'd buy a new scratch and dent Taylor 900 or Strat for a little over cost any day of the week if I could not get them already.

The problem is you cannot do your homework. Independents won;t carry merchandise that has been proven to be for "demo use only"

IM telling you Pro keyboard players will not pay $3000 for a workstation if they can save $210 tax PLUS buy it under MAP. We had a Motif for a year and had many demo player. Saw the same guys playing them in local bands. I told the owner to put more Arrangers in their place. WE get people asking us for Workstations all day long but I explain to them why we don;t carry them. They understand and are forced to use the generous return policies of the Internet stores which as a retailer I ENCOURAGE them to use. I could care less if it's a burden to Musicians's Friend. Its their policy not ours.

Actually, some dealers sell brand new items as used to make it easier to sell. Right out of the words of a Gibson guitar rep.



Thank God we don't have to do that to move gear. LOL

You would be surprised to know the big players are all over MAP policy's. The last thing they want is to lose independents, ASk Gibson. I heard they lost 90% if their independent dealers with their policies and requirements. We had them for 25 years and dropped the line when Henry took over and made demands we practically become a "Gibson Store". LOL We picked up PRS, the full Taylor line, Schecter and LTD which more made up for the loss of Gibson sales. Especially PRS. You don't have to "qualify" a PRS like one does a Les Paul. No one asks "which one" It doesn't matter its a PRS lol.
Its no wonder the Gibson rep mentioned above is whispering B-Stock as new at some retailers. LOL.



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 11-30-2008).]

What bothers me in the big chain music stores is that they hardly carry any mid to top arrangers anymore. Most places I have been to look at us older adults & tend to ignore us as if we dont know what we're doing. Or when asked about a product they just shrug their shoulders in bewilderment & say "What's That"? Most look like their on drugs also, what happened to a shirt & tie? It's a shame what has happened to music stores in the last 20 years from the help through management. You can't blame the customers for shopping on the Internet at much better prices. With so many unknowledgeable employees in stores you sought of have to be your own salesman in the know. And after you buy if you need help the Internet again can deliver it with forums like this and such. So its a no brainer as to why there is a downward slide & probably in years to come the demise of retail music stores as we knew them. It's sad.

You are going to the wrong stores. We don;t dress in ties but we are all over 40 and specialize in every aspect. Professional players in every area of expertise. We don;t work on commission so I have no qualms calling the bass player to sell a bass, no does he have issues calling on me to sell recording or keyboard gear that needs more than a rudimentary knowledge.

Thats said,,,,,,Believe it or not Keyboard Arrangers are primarily sold to Joe Six Pack by a HUGE margin. the HOME user. Joe is impressed with making a full band out of two fingers. Joe has no clue how to operate a keyboard with so many buttons and screens. Joe needs A LOT of support and local stores are in a much better position to offer that. I will spend hours with Joe on a Clavinova or PSR700. That's the difference. Joe won;t even know what a keyboard arranger is on the Internet. Joe buys what he see's demoed in the store and KNOWS he will be coming back with questions.
Joe has no problem laying out $400-$7000 for a Home Arranger Keyboard once he SEES and HEARS them.

Few Arranger sales are made to Pro OMB players when compared to the whole. The buyers of these things would be harraging the poor sales guy at Musicians Friend for "lessons on the use of a PSR or PA800"



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 11-30-2008).]

Kingfrog,

You may be the exception at your store but the majority of these large retail music stores have little or any support or even knowledge of arrangers at all. All you ever hear is "Well sir we dont carry those but I can order it for you". Most of my player friends buy at home organ stores at the malls, pay exuberant prices & get free life time lessons & but they re happy campers to at least learn how to play.

The store I work at used to be one of those home organ/Piano stores. The owner had the vision to become a full MI retailer as organ sales died,But stayed in the Malls. You would be surprised at how much is sold to out of town visitors in a Mall Store, People a routinely shocked to see a two level Music store in a Mall. The Mall is high rent but you spend next to zero on advertising. Don;t have to. Everyone in town and out of town already knows you are there. We don't have to sell at higher prices and everything including the Pianos are priced at MAP. OF course you have to take every advantage of discounts including paying for all incoming stock within 30 days for an extra 2 or 3 points and don't pay interest or floor ANYTHING not paid for. Even on Pianos where you don't usually find transparency, we price them at MAP.

Clavinovas and Arrangers are the new Home organs. They are so good they have cut into piano sales as well. Uprights are dead, baby Grands are still decent sellers. MI is still doing well. Even in recessionary times people still look to home entertainment.

Donny, I agree that Sweetwater is pretty good. The kid I deal with is responsive and pretty knowledgeable. The practice of assigning an associate to each customer is really helpful. Recently, I got a jazz guitar with A finish flaw. When I told the guy, they offered me a $100.00 credit without even seeing a photo of the flaw, which I offered to send.

Same thing at Sam Ashe. A nice young woman, who also knows her stuff, is my consultant. When I wanted a Parker acoustic, she looked at the stock they had and called me back to answer questions. Naturally, she earned my business.

I'll order from places like Musicians Friend only if they are the only ones stocking what I need. Guitar Center is a joke.

And Rondo music is the worst I've ever dealt with-hands down.

R.