Dave,

From your initial description of needs, particularly styles and voices, I would think you could not go wrong with the Yamaha PSR-S900, or better yet, the Tyros3, if it fits your budget. The operating system is very easy to use, the vast quantity of third party style files is second to none, and the voice quality and selection is superb. All of that, plus USB connection, USB storage, hard drive (T3), and a host of other neat features, IMO, points to Yamaha. However, as was pointed out above, try before you buy, and do some extensive research on each of the features you require.

Good luck on whatever you select,

Gary

I am in the same boat as you (except I don;\'t send my songs out) Even James Taylor, Neil Diamond and a whole host of other songwriters who perform hire producers and arrangers. Thats all you are doing using styles. Hiring specific producers who bring in their players, to flesh out your idea.

I cannot think of a better studio keyboard that you won't have to coax a great stock sound out of then the Yamaha Tyros. The availability of styles alone is worth the cost of admission.

I sell a ton of 900s to budding songwriters who did not know the technology existed to make productions out of their creations.

BTW I like your "Boz Scaggs" sound and songs. You need an Arranger bad though. those drums are drawing attention you don't want.
You would be fine with an S900 if not a Tyros. Try them. I think you will agree, Its easy not deep and allows you to stay in the song and not roped by the technology



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 11-30-2008).]

Dave,
If I were you I would find a place (Frankieve is one) that has both the Yamaha T3 or S900 AND a Korg PA800 in stock.

Go there, and try them both out. I would only go to a place that knows both of these and can demo them.

You will find more song specific styles on the Yamaha, if song specific is important ( since you do your own, probably not) but the Korg does have a lot of good general purpose styles.

You certainly would not go too far wrong with the Yamaha S900, T2 or T3...but you might like the sound and styles better on the Korg? Only you can decide this...it is a pretty big investment and I recommend spending some time to decide.

Depending on where you are located...we may be able to steer you to a place we know can help...not just sell you anything they have.

Location?

Lee



[This message has been edited by leeboy (edited 11-30-2008).]

Dave, knowing your style of writing and playing and knowing what your objectives are, I would recommend Yamaha PSR S900. You are already familiar with the OS, and it is quite inexpensive when you consider all it has to offer.
We'll have one, along with lots of others, at the Jam in January. If you wait until then, you can try lots of different keyboards.
DonM

All due respect, but how does answering Dave's question without a complete idea of what he is trying to do help him in any way?

At least MY broken record isn't 'Use what I use' unlike the vast majority of members here... Most here will answer exactly the same no matter WHAT question you ask. How is THAT of any help either?

A VERY brief look at a search thread for each arranger (just type in PA800, G70, T3 etc.) will quickly get anyone here all the information they are ever likely to need, but the first thing they are going to see is that the same few people recommend the same arranger, no matter WHAT the question. Does anyone really think there is just one perfect for everything arranger? Just the fact that there is ANY competition seems to point against that, doesn't it? Yet alone the unending lack of ANY consensus at all.

What would I recommend for Dave? Just play the same thing as Donny... that way, you will get to try them ALL!

To be more serious.... firstly, I would drop ANY need for an on-board audio recorder. Your computer will do a FAR better job than any built-in (24bit audio is pretty much the de facto standard for recording and mixing, and no arranger records it), far less expensively, and with far better quality and choice of plug-ins.

I would also drop any need for a full featured MIDI sequencer on any arranger, for the same reason. Do the initial capture in the arranger, and then offline it for further work in the computer.

I would also recommend he be objective about his skills recording and mixing music. If he's good at it, go for something that allows a lot of options in sound editing (probably Korg), or a very nice live sound with killer piano and drums and B3 (Roland) that he can polish up himself. If not, go for something with less control, but an already very CD-like sound (like Yamaha). Does he play guitar, or use another guitarist? If so, the Roland or Korg (though their Guitar Mode is pretty good), if not, Yamaha is tops, IMO in guitar emulation in styles, with Korg a slight second.

And if you use the styles for more than just a basic bed to put your own playing in, I'd shoot for the arranger with the most choice in styles, probably Yamaha. But pitching a full arranger styled song rather than a more stripped down 'songwriter demo' can work against you sometimes (don't overproduce a demo), but something that sounds live and punchy can make an energetic song work, whereas the more restrained, smooth, polite (the good words!) or wimpy, washed out and undynamic (the bad words!) Yamaha drums can be harder to make 'cook'.

Overall, I'd say get an S900, and with the balance of the money you'd save not buying a T3 (about 2 grand!) go get some decent VSTi's for the drumming like EZ Drummer, BFD, and DFH2. They will make FAR more difference to the realism of a demo.

So... OK. Is the record still stuck? It is? OK then...

BUY A G70, 'just like me'!

After all, I work on songwriter's demos (and final recordings) all the time...

I bothered to listen to all of his work and decided a Tyros would be his best choice, I don't have to ask him what he does he posted a link to exactly what he does. He needs drum help. For his music the Yamaha drums will be better then whatever he's using.

As far as 16bit vs 24 bit. I have always recored in the medium the final CD will be in. 16 bit. Mp3s even less, People cannot hear the difference after its dithered...Yeah yeah reverb tails and all that. Who cares. You are still going to truncate 8 bits. Why bother using more drive space and taxing the system for 24Bit? Espcially for home recordings and demos. The song will overcome the lack of 24 bit recording if it's good and if its not a 960GHZ/12900 MHZ recording in a $100,000 studio won't make it so...

.
The OP wants to understand WHY we chose what we use and why we love what we chose and the manner in which we use it. He is not asking us individually to describe all the keyboards. I am a Tyros user. I was a Korg user. Its the very best arranger for his purposes becasue I use it that way, studio only, not live...The next post may be by someone who loves the G70 and explains why, the next a PA800 on and on.. Thats the variation of opinion the OP is looking for.

I don;t care what kind of music he does there will be far more styles available for him in the Yamaha world in ALL GENRES. IF he is concentrating of the song He probably don't want to tinker with a bunch of settings and micro edit styles, settings, learn software, create new styles, He wants a keyboard that is TRANSPARENT to his needs and allows him to concentrate on SONGWRITING....not technology. Tyros wins,

Thats subjective and yes I use one and believe its the best for the purposes of writing....NOT performing.

We don't need to be objective, Its a forum of ideas. DIFFERENT ideas, DIFFERENT perceptions...DIFFERENT needs and expectations. Most of us have found what we need to meet them and can only tell him why.



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 11-30-2008).]

Without you mentioning your budget it's impossible to make any recommendations. Why waste time recommending an arranger that doesn't fall within your budget? Price point greatly limits your possibilities and finding a cost effective arranger with a hard disk drive, floppy drive, USB 2.0, ability to play styles from many media sources, and a "large" display will be virtually impossible. When you say large I assume you mean 8-10" or larger. There aren't many arrangers that have large LCD/TFT screens let alone the capability to utilize larger displays. Also, you say you have size constraints and that's going to make it impossible to find a large display on a compact arranger.

[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 11-30-2008).]

With all due respect, Kingfrog, the original poster laid down a bunch of criteria. Hence, he was not asking all comers for what works for THEM (unless it fit the criteria, which, as cost was 'very important' to him, a T3 is NOT what he wants!).

He was asking which would work for HIM under those criteria. I simply asked for more info, as it wasn't possible to help HIM without it, IMO.

'Rational' input isn't ALWAYS what we use... how many of us are that rational, anyway?

BTW, the reason most recording is done at 24bit these days is that it gives FAR more detail to the plug-ins, and digital processors especially compressors and EQ's to work with BEFORE the song is dithered (NOT truncated) down to 16bit. The differences are easily heard, and cumulative. If you process a track with several different things, then mix and master (more processing), working with 24bit files will give you a much better end result.

Working with much higher sample RATES, OTOH, 96kHz and especially super high ones like 192kHz, is definitely more taxing to the computer and harder to discern (unless you are using boutique stuff in your entire chain, probably unlikely). But a move to 24bit (and everything but really budget audio interfaces handle that easily) will make a BIG difference...

Trust me, I'm a doctor...

Just remember, somebody with a Tascam Portastudio could make exactly the same point about YOUR recording rig... i.e., why even bother with digital and 16 bit? It's all about the song, not some fancy recording gear

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 12-01-2008).]

Personally, I would say the best recommendation one can make is a keyboard they have actually spent some time with.

I would not recommend a Korg because I have not played one, and although it may or may not have just what Dave is looking for, I feel that a person who has spent some quality time with one is better informed to suggest it's use than I.

I spent only a week on a Roland G70 (not enough time to really get to know it), and an afternoon on E-80/60/50 so these instruments I can't really recommend wholeheartedly, but they were very good.

If you have not had sufficient time on an S900 or Tyros2/3 then all you are recommending is specifications, and not real world experience.

I've used both the T2/3 and S900 extensively, so I feel qualified to recommend from lengthy experience, and not just quote hearsay or what I've read here on SZ or elsewhere.

I believe that's what Dave is looking for, an honest but educated opinion, and since cost seems to be a big factor, a second hand Tyros2 or S900 would be best, and although the screen on the latter is not huge, but it is a color screen and reasonably easy to read.

I can also say, from my own experience, that there is a wealth of 3rd party styles and also some cool and useful software available for Yamaha...all free of charge, so very important if cost is a factor.

There is no substitute for hands on experience when recommending any product.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 12-01-2008).]

Mornin' Guys and Gals:

I appreciate all your responses. I plan to take Mason's advice and wait until the "Jam" in Shreveport coming up in January. Unfortunately, it seems that most of the real good "Keyboard Stores" are located on either the East or the West Coasts. George Kaye is a legend here and I scoop up every word he says as though it is the absolute gospel... LOL! He really is a marvelous resource.

Someone asked about my budget for a new (or used) board. Simple answer... as cheap as I can find one that meets my needs. Most of you may (or may not) know how difficult it is for a songwriter to crack the doors open in Nashville, LA or NYC. There are so many artists out there writing their own songs to cut out the middleman (me) and keep the income stream for themselves. Besides, I am located out in the "hinterlands" and in reality, just a nobody.

I could buy just about any arranger available but, as a businessman, it would be difficult to justify one of the high-end units financially because of the anticipated return at this stage of my songwriting career.

Diki... you are right on about "overproduced" demos. I try to achieve a balance depending upon my target artist or market. (They are gonna do the song the way they want it anyway!) Some artists have no musical imagination and others can hear a song played on a kazoo and recognize a potential hit.

Thanks to all of you who took the time to listen to my songs. Maybe someday you'll hear old George Strait belting one out over the airwaves... LOL!