I just don't get it... I really don't.

MP3's, especially fairly high bitrate ones (192kbps or 256kbps) are very hard to distinguish from the original sound file. 256kbps especially, done right, is beyond the average listener's capability to distinguish in all but VERY careful A/B comparisons.

I would be astonished if anyone here (considering how elderly most of us are ) is capable of doing a casual double blind listening test between 256kbps MP3's and 16 bit .wav files and consistently picking correctly. There have been all kinds of web double blinds done, and the only thing they show is that some of the MOST convinced 'golden-eared' (at least in their own minds!) detractors of MP3's have been consistently embarrassed by their inability to get it 100% right.

I know it's very fashionable in musician circles to knock the poor MP3, and a LOT of this attitude goes back to the days of poor encoders and very low bitrates needed for modem surfing. But this is the 21st century, things have changed...

Avail yourself of the opportunity to take some of the better double blind tests available from different audio websites. And learn a little humility. The difference between high bitrate MP3 audio and a 16 bit wave is FAR less than you think it is. You can even test for yourself. Got iTunes? Stick a CD in the drive. Let iTunes rip it at 256 MP3 or high rate AAC. It will make a playlist. Now add in the original CD tracks to the playlist. Select 'Shuffle'. Listen to the tracks, and write down which you thought was CD, which MP3. Don't peek!

Compare the list you made with the shuffle list. Few get it right consistently...

In other words, if an arranger sounds great on a web demo, it'll sound great when you play it live. And if it DOESN'T (you know what I'm talking about!), hearing it live won't make it sound sufficiently better to make a difference to a buying decision. Crap is crap, no matter WHAT audio form it comes in, and a great sound isn't rendered much less great (if any) by making a decent quality MP3 of it.

Before you refute me, take the tests. I did. I couldn't pick them 100% at 256kbps. There... I admitted it!

Can you?

I guess a good part of it comes down to how good your open taxi doors are? If your hearing (ears ) are okay with no significant hearing loss (especially in the upper frequency range) a person should be able to distinguish the difference between an .mp3 (which is compressed, therefore losing some of the audio data signal in the higher and lower frequencies in the process, as we know) and a .wav file, which is uncompressed audio, and therefore retaining all of the audio data within the file. Indeed, encoding methods are improving for the .mp3 file format but there is still compression involved and because of it an .mp3 file loses some of the audio quality of the original. That said; I agree wholeheartedly that if an .mp3 demo of a keyboard sounds excellent online, when it is played in person, will undoubtedly sound excellent as well. Very rarely will it turn out otherwise; but most likely it was NOT because the .mp3 was somehow misinterpreted, but because the Company itself didn't portray the keyboard's sounds honestly and accurately to the public in the recordings they provided. Call it embellishing, call it unethical, call it what you like.

That's why it is always a good idea to play a keyboard firsthand before deciding to purchase it. OTOH, if the online demos of a given keyboard sound "underwhelming" you can almost bet the farm that in person it will sound underwhelming as well. The reason being, is that manufacturers are always wanting to put their best foot forward when it comes to showcasing their products, therefore they want to demonstrate how exceptional the sounds are by demoing the 'pick of the litter' so to speak. So if it sounds underwhelming with even the factory produced demos, you can almost bet that it will fizzle at the box office too.

Best,
Mike

You miss interpret my reply

A good mp3 demo may have been processed to sound good, therefore until you play the board you will not know how it sounds in the real world.

In most cases a good board sounds better then an mp3 demo. (A good case in point is the Tyros 3 which if you try it live, blows all the online demos out of the water)

Quote from Mike
The reason being, is that manufacturers are always wanting to put their best foot forward when it comes to showcasing their products, therefore they want to demonstrate how exceptional the sounds are by demoing the 'pick of the litter' so to speak
End Quote

You don’t know Wersi; ask any owner I they will tell you that to get the manufacture to put any demos up at all is like trying to get blood out of a stone. (Wersi has always relied on word of mouth and top artists playing them live for promotions, which is why I say try them live yourself )(Quiz; see how many Wersi manufacture demos you can find from the last 40 years)

Regards

Bill

AJ,

Is it possible to hear distortion guitar and brass demos?

The guitars sound great in the demos, but i can't work out what is audio and what is MIDI. Since I fully customize my keyboards with my own beats, I need to know what my sounds will sound like.

Also, will I be able to record my own audio into my custom styles?

Finally, when is the Audya scheduled for release?

(A good case in point is the Tyros 3 which if you try it live, blows all the online demos out
of the water)
Which is why the exact opposite view was put forth on the Tyros 3, live Vs Recorded thread? All the complaints there were that the demo made the keyboard sound much better than it really sounds out of the box. And that was due to the skill of the demoer, nothing to do with wave versus mp3. Everybody has an opinion.

Diki

When you select a style, it's corresponding AUDIO loops will be streamed directly from the Hard Drive - barely any loading time.

Yes - do do have EQ and other Editable capabilities on ALL tracks.

Thanks,

AJ

AJ,

so we can EQ each and every part bass, drums, guitar?

individual drum EQ on kick, snare, hi-hat, toms, etc,,??

INDIVIDUAL drum reverb?
say i want my Kick dry as the Sahara and my snare wet like the Atlantic?

and AJ please explain effects,
how many?
or better yet how many can be used simultaneously per style/parts etc.

i am spoiled with my Roland G-70 with EQ and effects so...here's hoping...

AJ, I was more referring to how fast sampled instruments load up in the sampler. I believe you have mentioned that 'Live loops' stream directly. But Akai instruments in the sampler will have to be loaded into sample RAM. How fast is THAT pipeline?

I am also still concerned about how well a HD is going to remain viable when asked to stream continuously while the keyboard it is in is being pounded and bouncing around on a stand...

Is it shock mounted?

Diki ... Most samplers or keyboards with samplers the term "load" is language typically used . However , with Ketron Load is not the same meaning.

Let me try to explain.

The only load time will be when the owner wants to create styles with audio loops. You will load the audio loop in to the sampler, you will than slice the sample to match tempo with whatever parts of the style you are creating via midi... Once the audio sync is correct , you will copy the sample to the master folder on the hard drive. Before you copy to hard drive, you will need to name the audio loops the same name as the style for it all to be recognized in real time during a performance.

Example.. Lets say you created & named Bolero , the audio sample name will be Bolero.1 & 2nd sample will be named bolero.2

Now you call up the Bolero style and the sample will instantly stream from the hard drive.. This is how the SD1 & SD1plus currently work and I am certain the Audya will be the same.

Hopefully , this will clear up your concern of how quickly you can access styles with audio samples.

Cheers



[This message has been edited by DanO1 (edited 12-09-2008).]