and why?

I currently have the S900 and I'm thinking of adding a second arranger keyboard. So I'm just looking for feedback from other people about their setup and why they find two arrangers usefull.

Thanks

Only when I played with my trio, but not another arranger. Why would you want two arrangers?

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 12-08-2008).]

I would the second arranger to play different styles and sounds, so its not just the yamaha and also as a back up.

Until recently I used a Yammie DGX-500 as a controller for my PA1x Pro but I recently added a computer to my live set up and I couldn't comfortably reach both keyboards, the computer keyboard and my Music Pad Pro from one position so I had to let something go. Since I love the Yammie's piano sound and having 88 keys it was hard but I had to retire it from the live set up. Now I just use the Pa1X and a computer I built from scratch for music purposes only (and URU games).

I'm kinda looking at the PA-588....


anyway, hope that answers your question.

Jeff

Two arrangers...., in one set up..??? I know everyone's needs are different, but you could easily use the S-900 as your main board, and buy another performance keyboard to add extra sounds. There are several keyboards out there without sequencers ect.., but are nice (add ons) to an existing set up.

Again.., everyone's needs are different, but I'd suggest looking at an affordable performace synth.... They have great sounds, and are an inexpensive way to add "new and different" sounds to your existing arranger. Plus they're lightweight too. Just a suggestion.

Sonic Cell
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=897

Midjay
http://www.ketronus.com/midjay.php

What he wants to do is an excellent example of why their should be more full featured arranger modules. There is a need for these things regardless of what you hear the reps saying.

They won't make them because they'll eat into the profits of the board itself. Could you imagine how many full featured arranger modules Yamaha would see if they released a module of the Tyros 3 or even the S-900.... People would be eating those things up.

However, it all falls down to profit. Why make the full featured module version that would obviously sell for less..., as it doesn't take a business wiz to see it would tear right into the profit margin for the keyboard versions.

WE NEED MORE MODULES DAMN-IT! We shouldn't have to buy the entire bloody keyboard (especially if we already got a set of keys.., or in Russ's case an entire warehouse Had to throw that in there Russ.., not meant to be mean though).... At least Ketron offers something (but at a steep price though as the midjay isn't cheap)...

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-08-2008).]

Squeak the days of cheap ARE OVER!!!!

Sometimes I will take my Nord Electro2 61 and put it on top of my G70 or KN7000. It sure sounds good, but is a little extra work.

at one time i had tyros on the bottom,korg pa80 ontop. and a roland va76 on the right side. it turned out not to practical for me.
alot of investment of money,set up time only to be paid the same as when i was playing the old korg i5 and the yamaha psr 1000. plus my singer had 2 keyboards.in the 80s i had a b3,rhodes, moog, stacked then a wurly,arp and elka string machine on the right. i found that using 2 keyboards gave me a little more flexabiity, but not enough to warrent that type of investment. i guess it's a matter of personal preference and how you use them.

I have thought about the Midjay but your right it is a bit expensive at $1,800+. even the sd3 is $2,100.

Yeah the days of cheap are gone in the keyboard world Donny Technology is moving ahead and getting cheaper everywhere else, but the keyboard makers still use old repackaged hardware and increasingly charge more for it....

Sorry to hi-jack your thread MC, but it just angers me that the arranger makers continue to ignore the obvious needed demand for full featured arranger modules. Arrangers ARE popular (and are getting more popular). I've seen online pics of pro studios and have even seen arrangers in their keys section. Studio's know good and well that some of these arrangers have great acoustic voices, but unlike the pro synth department that allows people to at least buy a sound module version of a popular workstation.., in the arranger community you really don't get that option (with the big three).

At one time is was the norm to find a full rack of keyboard mods in a studio. You always saw the Triton Rack and EX5-R right next to eachother too

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-08-2008).]

I`ve been using PA2X and a T2 for a year together, and it works fine, most styles from the PA2 and righthandsound from the T2.
Tryggve

Can you convert styles for the S-900? If so.., why not get some 3rd party styles (you can get tons of them from members here who have various brands of arrangers). Convert those.., do a little revoicing, tweeking, and see what happens.

MC, when I first joined this forum I was lugging around a pair of arranger keyboards, a PSR-5700 and PSR-500. I later tried replacing the 5700 with a Roland G-800, both of which weighed about the same at approximately 50 pounds. This rig was set up on a three-tier Ultimate stand that took 10 minutes to put together. It was a great rig, but my setup time was about 45 minutes back then.

The main reason I had a pair of keyboards was I figured that if one died, the other would serve as a backup, and there were some differences in styles, sound, etc.. After a couple years, and checking with dozens of other owners, arranger keyboard failures on the job are indeed rare. Additionally, I met up with DNJ, Uncle Dave, Fran and a few other guys that use a laptop for a backup system, which pretty much eliminated the second keyboard.

There are loads of third-party styles available for nearly all TOTL keyboards, which will provide a huge variety to your performances. Add to that a laptop filled with MP3s, some midi files and lyrics and you have all the backup you need. No need for anything else.

Good Luck,

Gary

I always use multiple keyboards, if possible. For one hour jobs, it's just a piano or arranger. For my little Friday-Saturday night early gig, I use a controller over an old MS-60 with an old Yamaha tone generator.
For my country club job I use a B-3 with an SH-201 on top and a suitcase Rhodes at my right hand. At another house job, I use a SD-5 on the bottom, an SH-201 on top, a Hammond XB-2 on my right hand and an NP-30 on top of that. I always use a piano on my right hand when I use my nord C-1. Most of the time, it's my 61 note Electro.

I've always done it this way. Sometimes, I rotate my GW-7 in the mix, but never use any of the arranger functions.


Prevents a lot of boredom this way.


R.

I frequently use a variety of controllers with the PA800 or Midjay. Sometimes a midi accordion or a Master MK4, or a Master Pro 2000 Bass unit, or - and yes I still use one - a Casio AZ1.
Ciao,
Jerry

Being originally an organist I got used to the independent freedom of having 2 separate keyboards so I've always used 2, generally using a Yamaha S03 synth on top of my S900 and PSR3000 before that...unfortunatly the sounds on the S03 were really outshone by the S900 so I thought about the best way to go...solution... I got a 61 note controller and midi'ed it up to the S900 (RH2)...works a treat...I can play all the great guitar/sax sounds with my right hand with independent volume when soloing too...its like having a second S900 and did not break the bank.

Noel J

I also use two arrangers, a T2 (soon the T3) and a Korg PA800-or-500.
Also from an organist background and instrumental music, I want all the sound rainbow, different shades of Sax, pianos, etc...
The styles is a BIG thing for me, I made many of the ones I use, but is nice to have many choices let's say in one particular Foxtrot, or Rock, etc.


------------------
mdorantes

I use a Roland E-50 as the top keyboard because I can use the touch screen and a PSR900 as the bottom keyboard with the visible registrations that are setup song specific. Also I have gained a lot of weight as I get older and I have found two keyboards do much cover the extended tummy.

Finally... a REALLY good reason for a two keyboard stack That's funny, Hank

I don't care whether arrangers come in a module form or not. What is the PRIMARY reason I don't gig with two has nothing to do with form or weight... It is simply the fact that the manufacturers have almost gone out of their way to make sure you can't link two arrangers together with MIDI cords, and have them work as one.

I would be perfectly happy to haul around another keyboard, or even two, if I could simply and effectively link them in arranger mode, and have the fills, variations, Intros and Endings all selectable from the one master arranger. Then all you need to do is sync registrations with a common code, and individual Parts can be muted per registration, and a compound arranger is doable. To be honest, as long as you could get to the jacks, you wouldn't even have to take the secondary arranger out of the box. Just turn it on and let MIDI do the rest.

BUT NOOOOOoooo......

Don't the manufacturers realize that, with this one SIMPLE addition to the MIDI spec (and it doesn't have to be new codes, just a standardization of the codes already in existence), most of us probably WOULD be using two arrangers (more money for them!) rather than having to try to get the best sound with just one, with that's obvious compromise over two or more..?

Yes, modules would be good, but a module that didn't talk well to other gear is no better than a keyboard that does the same. Make the manufacturers standardize the code FIRST, then the demand (hence profitability) of modules may go up to the point that they start to make them again.

It's the CODES that are holding back the whole thing.

I lug with me a PA800 and Kurzweil K2661. If it is a smaller gig than PA800 and Ensoniq VFX-SD ( best keybed feel IMO).

Squeak, I only kid the folks I really like, so....FIRE AWAY! From you, I'll take anything you post in my direction as good natured kidding! (Nasty ole' "hole the wall" warehouse)!


Be well, friend!


R.

Noel, very interesting! I used to do this a lot before sounds on the arrangers got better, but I may re-visit this setup. This would give 61 notes of solo to work with, and only loading an extra 5 pounds or so.
DonM

i use 2 arrangers for 2 simple reasons:

1- Versatility, Different styles and sounds
2- Backup

can't believe more people don't think of a backup plan.
arranger as an electronic could suddendly die on them, or decide not to power, or have a memory zap, etc...

i couln't imagine being at a wedding gig without backup...

so i use a Roland G-70 and a Ketron X3, so i am totally covered in case the worst happens

I would be possibly the happiest camper out there if I could MIDI an S900 to my G70.

The SA voices, the multipads, plus the Mega guitars in style mode, added to my G70's already fantastic sound would be the answer to all my problems.

But can I do this? Hell NO

Look, if even TWO manufacturers were to standardize, all the rest would fall rapidly into line...

Steve Demming, if you are reading this, have you got any info about why not one of the arranger manufacturers implement arranger operation codes (fills, variations, breaks, etc.) that work with anything but their own arrangers (and who in their right mind is going to link two from the same manufacturer? )?

I would already have a Yamaha now if they did, and probably a Korg too... Surely they can see that standardization will increase sales?

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 12-09-2008).]

I am about to get a Motif XS Rack unit to compliment my PA 800 with some kick ass synth sounds and arpeggios

Nick..., why did you get rid of your XS? I thought you had the Motif XS6... That's a great workstation.

I used to have Four KB's to lug plus amps/speakers ...Years ago early 70's/80's my band rig of choice on stage,

Hammond B3/w/cut legs, 147 RV Leslie /cut in half Top/Bottom, Fender Rhodes,
Juno 60 synth, Yamaha CS-01 Baby Synth.
http://www.synthmuseum.com/yamaha/yamcs101.html
http://www.synthmuseum.com/roland/rolju601.html


Man, have times changed!



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-10-2008).]

unfortunately i couldn't afford to buy the PA 800 outright. I had to sell my Motif XS to help with the funds... the thing is - i hardly ever used it, wasnt a very inspiring keyboard.

The Motif has awesome synth sounds and arpeggios but i am truly an arranger player and i missed that. i was hoping that the korg would still have had some good usable synth leads but i am very dissapointed with this sound category on the Korg.

Dont get me wrong i love the keyboard but i need something else to give me the synth leads and pads i need. i might wait for a newer Motif to come out and then ill snap up a second hand XS6 very cheap...

Nick have you considered downloading some user sample sets from the Korg Forums?

I'm sure I saw a whole bunch of Dance sounds (hopefully a few good lead synth sounds in there) that you could use.

Maybe sample your own?

Edit the existing sounds???????

mate i have tried and searched for dance samples... there arer PLENTY but they are only compatible with Triton and M3 and NOT the PA arrangers...

i have tried not really dug deep into the sound editing YET but the thing is - the standard synth sounds on thekeyboard are terrible... there really is not much u can do with them in my opinion. i am yet to hear some good usable trance leads and gated pad voices...

maybe I am just too use to the awesome sounds that my motif XS had.

You need to dig into the sound-editing mode to see what the pa800 can really do. With 16 oscialtors you should be able to make some good sounds. As far as ARP's go , pads should get you very close to them.

Don't give up yet! Read the manual!

I’ve been thinking about this thread all week and remembering the glory days when I used 3 keyboards + vocals to put out a full orchestra sound.

In front of me, a DX7 (as my master) MIDI’d to a Roland Pro-E arranger on top and a Roland U-20 to my right. On the floor was a Roland U-20 module also MIDI’d to the DX7. I used a Yamaha MIDI processor (routing, cut-off, bypass, transpose, etc) to mix my MIDI signals to all units.

It worked like this. My left hand on the DX7 gave me sounds when I wanted (based on velocity sensitivity) from the U-20 module. One of three volume pedals controlled that volume. The DX7 also spoke to the Pro-E arranger to dictate what chords I’m playing. The U-20 on the right was a stand-alone, just used for sounds. A second volume pedal controlled that volume.

I had instant access to any sound I wanted and could change patches on one keyboard while I played the other one.

But...the many sounds I could produce was SECONDARY to my main effect. That was to give the listener the impression it actually was a whole band. I did this a number of ways. Example: playing lead on one keyboard, I could move my hand to the other for fill-in’s. Most effective was to take over the melody note from my right hand with my left hand (near the end of a phrase) and while still playing the melody line with my left hand, bring in another instrument behind it with my now free right hand.

Of course, in those days, there were not only “players” but listeners too. Audiences have become an endangered species lately. Not a lot of incentive anymore for putting that kind of a setup together again!

Lucky