LOL.... what fevered imaginations you all have..

Unless I got one for free, I would NEVER get an MS. You see, for all your praising of the MS's technical merits (which I agree with, BTW) no-one has managed to convert that into a demo that even rivals my G70, yet alone a T3 or OS2 PA2Xpro. I take that as a VERY telling indicator. All the praise for the OS, and none for any MUSIC made by it.

For all my interest in things technical, they are all secondary to making music. I don't care if it based on Linux, or Vista, or an Atari Falcon I only care about what it can do MUSICALLY.

Now, perhaps you guys are just more forgiving than me, but if I buy an arranger, I want an arranger. I don't want a blank sheet of paper to make it anything I want. And, from being here for quite a while, I think that the vast majority of arranger players think exactly the same. Just how many T3's would be sold if you had to go out and make the styles yourself? How many PA2Xpro would be sold if the onboard voices were VERY humdrum, and you had to purchase a large selection of VSTi's to compensate (and THEN spend months completely re-voicing all the styles to use the VSTi's)?

You see, every last person praising the MS on this thread has not made ONE good piece of music on it... Dom (IMO) hasn't posted ONE good piece of music on his website. I heard OPNE good piece of klezmer music a while back, that turned out to be an SMF, done on an MS. I don't need a VSTi player that plays SMF's. A laptop can do that adequately. If this thing is SO advanced, SO cutting edge, SO amazing....

WHERE'S ALL THE GREAT MUSIC?

The thing has been out for what, over two years? I don't know about you, but give me a great arranger, I can make something decent in TWO MINUTES What could the holdup be, other than you CAN'T make great music on it? Is there some kind of NDA to stop you from posting..? Bull!

If ALL the current MS owners can't post something decent on the web, something that is in style mode, what on earth gives any of you the impression that, in YOUR hands, things would be any different..? We've got actual MS owners on this site. NOT ONE of them has ever posted anything good. But they still talk, and talk, and talk. I'm sick of it. STFU and PLAY me some good music, or don't waste your breath.

I am NOT singling out MS for this treatment. I assure you that, were Roland completely incapable of making a decent demo for the G70, and NONE of it's owners willing to post a SINGLE piece of music done on it, I would have been EXTREMELY leery of it. If all the T3 demos sucked, and not ONE owner was capable of posting something decent, I am convinced none of you would be so gung-ho about it.

And the crazy thing is other than a couple of members here that actually have MS's (but mysteriously NEVER post a single thing done on them), all of you are as completely in the dark as me. You haven't seen one, you haven't played one, you haven't listened to the styles. You don't know what the keybed feels like, you don't know how easy or not it is to use. BUT.....

You all ASSUME it's going to be great! Me I ASSUME it's going to be terrible! How are we ANY different?

I'll tell you... I've heard PLENTY of proof of my assumptions, and you haven't heard ANY proof of yours.. Even those that DO own one. Where's your great music..?

Where... Where... where...?

Plenty of great Tyros demos. Plenty of Korg stuff that sounds great. Even quite a bit of Roland stuff that sounds decent Where is the MS section? That's right... NOWHERE!

It's a great thing to be impressed by specs. But it doesn't translate to whether it's a good ARRANGER or not. If my G70 had 24 bit, 96kHz D/A converters, it would not be the slightest bit better as an arranger. The LAST thing in the world I would ever ask for are better converters. Better styles, yes... better sounds... yes... a better OS, yes... Those same things are what I would need to HEAR on the MS before it held the slightest interest for me.

And the rest of you? If you don't already use 100% user made styles, if you don't already use 100% user created sounds, if you don't already use computer sequencers and computer based VSTi production, if you aren't already the most technical member here at SZ, this is just a pipe dream (and we know what kind of pipe!). It all sounds good on PAPER. Me, I hold paper up to my ears, the only thing I hear is rustling.

When you listen to everything posted so far, does it honestly impress you? If so, go for it! But until it impresses ME, nothing you guys say can change my opinion of the MS. MUSIC is what impresses me. I can't say whether I will be getting an Audya or not. But at least the demos have not convinced me NOT to. Apparently, SOMEBODY at Audya can get it to sound great! Why does Dom have so much trouble? Why do ALL the current owners of the MS have so much trouble..?

Before you attack me, come up with an answer for THAT one.

After that negative rant about the MS, who in their right mind would post a demo?

I know I would not if I had one. No matter how great sounding the styles and sounds were.

Exactly!

That is utter bullsh*t and you know it...

Post something that even gets CLOSE to a T3, and I will be the FIRST to acknowledge it! Unlike some here at SZ, I have nothing but a pair of ears. No axe to grind, no fanboy baggage to inflict upon you.

You might have noticed that, after giving my frank opinion about the Audya's potential, I am in there with the first posters saying how GREAT the demos are... Sure, they don't answer ALL my concerns, but what you DON'T see me doing is putting them down because I have any bias. Perhaps that's the way YOU guys think, but I am insulted you would assume this from me...

And the intimation that you wouldn't post anything because of the poor reception you might get from me is utter rubbish! Either you think you HAVE got some great music to post (in which case, what does it matter what I think?) or you DON'T.

My opinion is that you DON'T, because you would have posted it by now. Everybody that posts ANYTHING here runs the risk of it being accepted poorly. But, mysteriously, they still do. And you know what? I have never heard anything that didn't suck get anything but a great reception, here. And that which DID suck got a drubbing regardless of what instrument it was made on. Post some crap on a G70, and I'll call it out. Post something great on an MS, and that is what I'll call it.

Don't lump me in with all the bullsh*t bias YOU all demonstrate so often. If it sounds great, I'll be the FIRST to say it (if you give me time!).

So, there you have it... Post something good, or quit talking about it. Because talking time is OVER.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP....

Don't feel that way, its only one persons opinion nothing more. You have to enjoy the KB. Do what makes you happy.

d.

Diki, I support your line of reasoning 99.5% of the time.....but, doesn't the above statement say more about the player than the machine? The .5% of me is just asking.

chas

PS: For the record, I think Diki has been very fair (and constructive) in the very few performance critiques that he has posted on this board. There are others here I'd be way more concerned about. On the other hand, if your performance really sucks, I don't think anybody should be feeding your delusions. If you absolutely HAVE to say something about a clearly lousy performance, limit it to "Thank you for sharing".

chas

Only somebody that wanted to PROVE the nay-sayers wrong...

Doesn't appear to be anyone that wants to do that. Why could this be? I guess they must LIKE keeping the good stuff all to themselves.

Or maybe there just ISN'T any...

Tell us all about the converters again. I mean, who wants to listen to MUSIC?

But chas, what does this say about purchasers of MS's?

Are they ALL terrible players? What are the odds of that?

Or perhaps, only terrible players would buy an instrument based entirely on the hype and specs, despite ALL the terrible sounding demos, on the assumption that in THEIR hands, magically they will transform it into the best keyboard in the world?! To be honest, I don't really see a true pro going that route.

If the factory can't make it sound great, if none of it's owners can make it sound great, who in their right minds has a sufficiently large ego to think that THEY are going to be the first to do so? Certainly not me, and I perhaps have more experience with VSTi's, editing styles and computer based production than many on this forum. If the manufacturer themselves can't get it right, who can? What's the last instrument you ever heard where the factory made TERRIBLE demos, all it's users turned out lousy demos, but it turned out to be a great keyboard?

I can't think of one.

You know what would shut me up permanently? A great arranger demo on the MS... Something along the lines of the T3, PA2Xpro or Audya stuff. When I hear it, all this will change. Until I do, I prefer to assume that what I have heard IS what I will get. I have no idea why anyone else would think differently. I assume that if I buy a T3, it will sound like the demos. If I buy an E80, it will sound like the demos. If I buy a C1, it will sound like the demos.

Why does the MS get a free pass..? What is it about this product that makes people suspend their disbelief? Because, after TWO YEARS of them being out there, if they really WERE that much better than the demos, somebody by now would have posted SOMETHING. People are posting decent stuff on the T3 WEEKS after it's release. Two YEARS, and nothing...!

I guess I am simply too old for fairy tales any more

Apparently, there are plenty on this forum who still believe in Santa and Little Red Riding Hood.