Used the L1, M1 for the for time yesterday. I had three jobs...follows is a description of how I set up and the issues I encountered along the way...

Gig #1: DAR Holiday Gathering at a local Country Club...Medium size banquet room of a country club...Small audience of about 25 seated about 40 feet in front of me...I'm running my Tyros 2 and senn 855s into my Yamaha 212s box mixer...Running 1/4" lines from the main outs on the front of the amp into channels 1 and 2

Gig #2: Xmas Party at area Retirement Community...Roughly 150 split off to the far left and far right of the room...(no guests in front of us)...also, we're in a small cubby hole section of the room, that also has a low ceiling that slopes downward just above our head. No real option for us to be anywhere else...Ran my Tyros 2 and senn 855s vox into the Yamaha emx 212s amp...Guitarist/Vocalist both mic'ed with a Sure sm 58 also into the emx...

Volume throughout the room was appropriate, even and clear...

We struggled with feedback most of the 2 hours, I'm sure because we we so jammed on top of this thing. There was no room to move it any further away whatsoever...We had some relief by killing all mics on an as needed basis...(If it wasn't being used for that song, it got muted...)

That said, it sounded pretty good...

Gig #3: 3 hour lounge entertainment for roughly 150 in an Elks Club...Working as a solo...I tried a different set up configuration. I did not use any external box amp this time. I ran my Tyros 2 into channels 3/4 of the L1, M1...I ran my senn 855s mic via mono into channel 1 of the power stand.

Honestly, it sounded like crap...

After the end of my 1st set...(thankfully all background instrumental) I set the system up like I had at the 1st gig at the country club. I would've preferred to be set up at the end of the room, but they wanted me against the wall. The room was quite long...but with the way they wanted me to set up, there was maybe 50 ft from the wall behind to the opposing wall. (Still, a million times better than at the retirement community!) This room also had pretty high ceilings.

Once I adjusted the rig back to my original set up using the yamaha box amp, running into channels 1/2...it sounded like heaven!

That said, I do hear a difference in my Tyros 2, but mainly in the upper octaves. It sounds thinner and tinkier than I'm used to. That should be improved upon with some attention the the eq's on its channel fomr the boxamp.

I was also hearing things differently and more clearly from the Tyros 2. I could swear I was noticing more subtle parts I'd been missing with the old conventional PA I used...

All in all, Day one was both a learning experience and a success in some of the most sub-optimal conditions I ever work in...

Life is good!

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Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 12-14-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 12-14-2008).]

I wish you lived closer so I could help you get things to sound the way you want. Unfortunately, this time of year a drive to your neighborhood is out of the question. On a good summer day it's a 14-hour drive.

It will take some tinkering, but I'm confident you will soon get everything sounding great.

Good Luck,

Gary

Hi Bill,
I will play my first gig Tuesday with the Bose for about 100 folks in a rather large room. I have been playing now for 2 days with the Bose and my T3 and have gotten comfortable with making changes on the remote. I will not put the PAS behind me because I just don't like it tht way - I will try with it beside me next to my keyboard. At home I can hear it very well there. Like you I have also notice quite a change in the sound of styles - takes some getting used to. I'll post my results here after the gig.

Hammer

When I first got my Bose before I did anything I set it up in the livingroom and played with all the adjustments. Then I walked around the house to check out the sound and see what made a difference.
Then I set it up in the basement.
Then I set it up in the garage.
Then I did the same outside. By that time I had a pretty good idea what it would do.

Of course I had the luxury of time and good weather on my side.

I have to chime in about the running 2 channels,

when the Tyros 2 has left and right abouts used it will create stereo effects, also take advantages of the stereo samples, but if you sum left and right wouldn't that create phase cancellations, which in turn will hurt some of the sounds, yeah sure some sounds will be fine, but most that use some type of chorus or ambient stereo reverb will knock it self out.

do some research on phase cancellations and you'll see what I mean.,

I'm sure Yamaha thought someone would use it in mono and to set it up to work accordingly when plugged into left/mono out.

Also if you are using a mixing board and running that stereo your doing the same thing to that, in turn will probably create some of the hot feedback frequency's you are getting.

I have 4 of the Bose system which I use anywhere from 1 - 4 according to the players I'm with.

------------------
www.AudioworksCT.com
203.876.1133

Most of the Yamaha players I've talked with claim they have no issues with phase cancellation. My hearing is shot to hell, so I couldn't hear it if it was a problem.

Gary

simple record a piano song in Stereo and same in Mono... listen to see if you think there is Phase cancellation loss.

I personally prefer a full stereo sound.

I agree, a full stereo sound is beatiful, but you can't get that from 1 Bose, you need 2.

Exactly Frank....one pole wasn't enough for me either not to mention all the pieces to the puzzle I had to carry using two systems ....although many enjoy it ...
It just wasn't a good fit for my needs.

enjoy


[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-15-2008).]

Bill,
Tonight I played my first gig with my Bose L1. My setup is very simple - one Tyros 3 keyboard run directly into Chans 1 and 2 of the Bose and a Crown mic run through the keyboard. I place the tower right next to my keyboard - not behind me. Tonight I ended up with about 200 people in a packed room and lots of noise. I used preset 55 with my Tyros EQ'd. The really interesting thing about tonight was the sound level of the Bose. I run the remote controls at 12 O'clock with the mid-level control at 11 O'Clock because the mids seem a little hot to me. I run the remote master vol at 9 O'clock and never had to change it tonight.

During the gig I wasn't sure if the folks in the back could hear or not but no one complained so I didn't change anything. I did do a sound check before the gig - but the room was empty so I wasn't sure about the sound level with the room full.

After the gig I asked the people right up front(about 4 feet away) and several people in the back and all of them said the sound was perfect and they could hear very well. The PAS seemed to handle the situation very well and what is even neater is the sound at the keyboard did not have to be overwhelming.

I have found the Bose PAS very simple to use and setup and with the help of a few forum friends very easy to get to sound the way I like it. Looks like a real winner for me.

Hammer

That's cool, Hammer...

Two guys trying for the first time...

Two guys loving it...

Heck of a system they make, isn't it?

Have fun!

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Bill in Dayton

Hammer and Bill,

Sounds like both of you are on the right track. My setup time is down to about 10 to 12 minutes most of the time, but if I'm really pressed for time, I have been able to do it in 8 minutes. Last night's job was fraught with disaster from beginning to end. The night began with a light drizzle and temperatures hovering at 33 degrees. When I arrived at the job, there was no place to park, and the sidewalk was covered with a glaze of ice patches. By the time I unloaded the van and parked I had just 15 minutes to set up and no time for sound checks.

The room was very tight, I had a 6 X 6-foot space in a small corner to set up, and the ceiling was quite low, leaving just one inch of clearance to insert the top of the tower. The audience, which consisted mainly of women over 70 years of age, was very loud and the ambiance of the room was awful. If fired up the system, set the presets to 55, set the remote EQs at 12-O'clock, channel volumes at 12-O'clock and the master volume at 9 O'clock. Never touched a volume control the rest of the night. When the evening ended dozens of people came up to me and said how much they enjoyed the music and wanted to know when I would be coming back. The facility's manager called this morning and asked if she could set up a regular schedule for 2009, to which I said I would be happy to find some openings for her after the first of the year.

After nearly three years of using this system, I have yet to encounter a situation where it did not outperform any conventional system I've owned--and believe me I've owned lots of conventional systems. The Bose L1 has been a keeper for me since the fist time I heard Uncle Dave performing with his L1 in Philadelphia.

Cheers,

Gary

I thought this post would be of interest to a few here.
Well, first of all I had to come home and calm down before posting. I had a very "interesting" night. My gig was scheduled for two hours of Xmas music for a senior center Christmas party. No problem - lots of great Christmas songs and religious songs were OK'd so there were plenty of songs in my songbook for the night. First problem - an ice storm which always shuts down the Dallas area. So, I start out hours early to make sure I would get there on time - if at all. Turned out the streets were good and I get to the the gig about 90 minutes early - at least thats what I thought.

When I get there I push my cart into the gig venue and low and behold there is a 7 piece band setting up. I commented that I would need room to setup and got a very cold reception from the band leader. The AD decided that she needed additional entertainment and added the band for the night without informing me. Then I learned I was to start and hour earlier than scheduled and the band would play about 30 minutes after I got finished so Santa could visit and pass out gifts to the residents. Now my early arrival was a blessing - but there still was no room for me to setup nor empty electrical plugs in the area. I was no longer frustrated but severaly pissed. The AD decided to move a table and make room for me which actually turned out to be a great place to setup - so I got busy and prepared for the gig. What really got me though was the "unprofessional" attitude and behavior of the band members. They did sound checks and tuned and retuned their guitars for or at least 45 minutes and had to be told to stop so I could start on time. I had to actually unplug some of their equpment to get access to a plug. Right before I started playing I need to make a rest room visit. When I got back one of the band members was actually playing my keyboard. That was it - I really went off on him- the AD about died but by that time I really didn't give a hoot. I have played for years with hundreds of top notch musicians and I can't remember a time when anyone ever touched someones instrument wthout being asked - ever! Well, onward and forward to the gig.

I had decided to play a few secular songs mixed in with the Christmas songs - only about 4 or 5 for the night - after playing the first secular song the AD comes runningup and tells me that I am to play only Christmas songs. Ok, not a problem - after about 10 songs into the night she returns to tell me I am playing all the songs the band is supposed to play and they were complaining. I said there was nothing I could do about that because I had prepared a Christmas show for her as she asked me to do. I told her to take that up with the band and tell THEM they could change their song selection if they were concerned. I have no idea how that conversation went.

Well, I did use my Bose L1 M1 for the first time tonight and wanted to report on that experience. I run my Tyros 3 into Chans 1 and 2 on the Bose and my Crown mic into my keyboard. I used the Bose preset 55 tonight and my usual Keyboard EQ settings. My remote is run at the 12 O'Clock position with the mids at 11 O,Clock 0 I think the mids are a bit hot on my keyboard. The remote master is at 9 O'Clock. I place the tower right next to my keyboard - not behind me and the B1 Base unit is under my keyboard on my cart. I did a quick sound check with an empty room before starting to play and never made any changes or adjustments to my settings. After the gig I asked the people up front(about 4 feet away) and also the people in the back if the sound level was ok and they all said they could hear very well. The people up front said the sound was just right and not to loud like a lot of other players they have heard. Seems to me the Bose PAS did it's job and I really enjoyed not having to Crank up the sound in a very noisy room for everyone to hear.

As a side note, after the gig the AD told me she was really sorry about the mis-communication and wanted to make sure I wasn't upset with her. This is a place I book on a regular basis and I told her I didn't mind getting paid for two hours and playing only one hour and it wasn't her fault the band members were unprofessional and difficult to work with. She seemed sincere so I guess all will be ok.

Anyway, another gig in the books and lessons well learned. Be ready for anythng when you walk into a venue and be flexible and try your best to work with whatever is thrown at you.

Hammer

[This message has been edited by hammer (edited 12-17-2008).]

Hammer ... quite an experience ... I don't think I've EVER seen one musician play another's instrument without asking !!! ...
I am curious .. how about sharing some demographics about the band ... type, age, etc.
And as for song selection between you and them, there are only so many Christmas songs to play ... just listen to any "Holiday Music" station this time of year ...
t.

Hello Everyone,
I've been using the Bose system since 2003 and I will tell you that I was at first, not at all happy with it. Fortunately, I received lots of help from the Bose forum; there are a lot of knowledgable folks there who do the same thing we do. Also, I've had several long phone sessions with Bose techs over the years - they walked me through some of the problems and when we couldn’t fix the problem, I had a new rig before my next gig - even after the warranty ran out. So, the next best thing to having Gary come visit you is talking directly to a Bose tech – they are very responsive and accessible. I would however, do what BBBB suggested and go to the forum first. I am very happy with the Bose system, stereo has never been an issue for me; I only wish I knew how Gary sets up tears down in 10 to 12 minutes. Gary, does that time include keyboard, mic cables etc? Of course, I have a couple of years on you – that’s an extra 17 mins. right there.
Ciao,
Jerry

Hammer, I feel your pain! Although my experience with last week's gig was a bit different it was not a good one. On the positive side I received a thank you note and bit of a written apology from the lady who sponsored the party. She went on to say, maybe we can have you play at our next party. Thanks lady, but no thanks.



Customer support is great, I delivered my power stand to the Bose Service Center last Friday the result of my damaging the fuse housing at last week's gig. Despite being told there was a 2 week turnaround time, I recevied an e-mail from Bose indicating the unit had been serviced and shipped. UPS dropped it off yesterday.

I know there is much more to learn and better sounds to get from my setup. I guess the question is "how do you know when your getting all there is to get" from any sound system? Sounds like a lifetime of experimenting. I am not completely sure I have my Tyros 3 setup for the best sound yet either.

Hammer

Jerry,

My secret to success when it comes to quick setups and tear-downs is my custom made console unit. It holds all of my power supplies, all of which remain plugged into an 8-plug surge protector which is also housed within the console. The console also contains my TC Helicon Harmony-M, footswitch for the TC, harnessed cables for all audio connections, mic cable, and all remain plugged into the appropriate connections. The console also is my laptop platform, lighted sign and has another light that lights the top of the keyboard. The console slips onto the top tier of my Quick-Lok, heavy-duty, 2-tier X-stand, while the keyboard fits on the lower level. The positions of the X-stand are marked with a dab of white-out, which allows me to locate the exact position every time without guessing where the arms should be positioned.

My cables from the keyboard to the Bose L1 are all contained within a single harness and cut to the exact length . I marked the key position of the remote control cable with a dab of white-out so there's no guesswork at either end, and pretty much eliminates any possibility of bending the connector's pins because the cable is not properly positioned.

My mic cable stays plugged into the TC at all times, and when not in use it is coiled loosely and held in place with a Velcro strip that stays on the cable. The L1's power and sub cable are kept in the base unit's bag, coiled loosely and held in place with a strip of Velcro that stays with the power cable.

Everything fits on the Rock & Roller cart, unloading and loading take about three minutes each and everything is held firmly in place on the cart because of the manner I place certain items.

I usually am able to roll the cart right to the spot where I'll be setting up. The only exception to this is when I'm performing on a raised stage that does not have access for the cart. When I encounter this type of situation I allow an extra 5 minutes setup time, which is usually more than enough.

The first thing off the cart is my folding Quick-Loc stoll, which sets up very quickly. Next, the fan, something many of us consider an absolute necessity. It is immediately plugged in, turned on high and faced upward to where I'll be setting up. The seat and fan take less than a minute to set up.

Next, the X-stand is off loaded, unfolded, and the top tier is locked in place. The stand itself is locked in position with the aid of a spring loaded pin--setup time less than 30 seconds.

Both towers are placed horizontally on the top arms of the X-stand and their cases are unzipped. Now the keyboard to L1 cables and power cable are removed from the base unit case, then the base unit is removed and placed a few feet to the right of the X-stand and about three feet to the rear. The next step is to insert both towers. Two minutes top for this part.

The keyboard is now removed from the case, placed on the X-stand and the keyboard's case remains open. The Console is then placed in the keyboard case, the bag unzipped and the console is them placed on the top tier. Maybe 20 seconds.

The laptop, mouse platform, mouse and USB cable is then removed from the laptop case, placed in the console and connected. This takes about 25 seconds. The laptop case also stays in the keyboard case at this time.

Next, the bag holding my other foot pedal, mic and L1's remote control is placed in the keyboard case, the contents are removed and plugged in. Maybe a minute at most to do this.

Now, the keyboard case, which contains all the other cases is closed. The sub woofer is then removed from its case and placed against the right foot of the X-stand. Another 20 seconds to plug in the remaining cables and the main switch of the surge protector is then turned on, followed by the L1, keyboard and finally the laptop. The TC does not have a power switch and is activated when the surge protector is turned on.

It takes about two minutes for the laptop to boot up, including the time taken to open the lyric folders, set up VanBasco and open Win-Amp. All of the L1's remote control settings are fairly static and take less than 10 seconds to set. The keyboard's settings are a single button push using the Setup Registration I created. This automatically sets the mic and pedal settings.

The only thing left to do is push the Rock & Roller to the side, press the mic's on button, do a quick one two, then you're into the first song.

It took two times longer to write this than it takes to set up the entire rig.

For those interested in how the console is constructed, you'll find it HERE by clicking on Projects, then click on Laptop Platform.

Gary

Gary,

Great write up. Could I trouble you to post some recent photos of your set up with the TC Helicon. Although you've sketched out nicely, I'm not quite getting a true picture of what the actual unit looks like.

I'll shoot some new ones this week and post them as soon as I get a break from my schedule.

Gary

Thanks Gary you be da man!!