Gary.., with all respect. Speak for yourself man. Many of the members on this forum are at a mature age. I think some of you guys have forgotten or may be a bit out of touch with what life is like "well before" retirement and closing in on the senior years.

Understand that many of us DON'T HAVE the luxury of just jumping in a car and driving hundreds of miles to demo a keyboard. The way some of you guys talk about buying this keyboard for X amount of dollars (like it's nothing) and driving half-way across the country to demo a keyboard IMO at times really show that some of you are a bit out of touch and maybe have forgotten what life was like before you COULD do all those things. Understand that quite a few members here AREN'T there yet..... We still have our many familiy obligations, work, and other things that prevent us from making such "expensive" decisions..., and don't have the time to travel like some members here do.

That's why some of us HAVE TO buy our keyboards this way. Myself.., I don't have too much of an issue buying sight unseen. I've owned keyboards from all three major companies..., so I have history with them and at the least know what to expect (based on previous models owned by these companies) I do a lot of research before purchasing sight unseen. One HUGE benefit that gets overlooked SOOOO often today is the ability to read the manual BEFORE you buy. If only people would take the time to at least read the manual prior to purchase.., it just may save them from making a wrong decision. Too often people buy then complain (after buying) that it doesn't do this or that. Well if you read the manual first.., you'll know what it can do.

There are enough sound demos on the net today to get a good idea of what they sound like....



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-16-2008).]

Lucky here's another option....do some extensive YOU TUBE searches on the KB your interested in and watch & listen good...this will give you a visual & audible experience to an extent to narrow it down although there ain't too many choices as it is for good arranger KB's........with that said...you have all the discussions, pissin contests, & varied opinions here on SZ and many other forums to read & search through also. Just going to a store & playing a KB for a few doesn't guarantee happiness at all....it's the weeks after the sale that make you say Yay or Nay in regards to your approval to keep or dump it....take it from me I know A few hoiurs drive to where ever can be a fun thing......you get th try KB's, meet some new people, make a friend along the way, & learn something too....its all good.
Goodluck it your KB purchase journey & keep us posted on your experiences.

Well, sometimes you just have to gamble. If you get a super deal on a board that you can move and not lose on, grab it.

Conservatives will wait forever and be stuck with the old model - IMO, life's too short for that.

I've bought, sold, traded and kept many boards, sight unseen. A may have lost a few bucks, but nothing major.

Not recommended for a person on their last dollar, but 'cmon, this is pocket change.

Just My Thaughts!...I'm just a Home Musician(Now)...I have been involved with quite a bit of outside Music Endeavors over the Years,Mostly helping others with their Music,Etc....
Personally,If I were a Working Musician and Note:INVESTING and upgrading an Keyboard or any Instrument,I would Not look at6-10 Hours or even 1day trip to example to Franks Store To Explore Several Keyboards...If You divide the Number of Keyboards into Hours, what does that come out to?....Number 1: You have One of the best people to Help You with Questions on each Keyboard...Number 2: You can Play each Keyboard Number 3:NO PRESSURE Number4:You will receive a VERY GOOD Price with GOOD service!...PS. I have not purchased a Keyboard from Frank.
I personally have spent MUCH more time on purchases like Carpet for the Home, Automobiles,etc....
As for Myself,I sometimes purchase New and Most of times purchase Pre-owned...Pre-owned gives me Keyboard purchase options.I can Have 2-3 Keyboards in My Music room Budget,etc...Plus change without so much depreciation...My Music is a Hobby for Me..
Gee...I see It's time to Go to work... More to add later Friends...Best wishes Harold

Harold..., exactly! "Working Musician". Not everyone is a working musician.., I quit years ago. If I was still using it for a large portion of my income.., then the travel time in that respect I think would be moot, and I wouldn't think too heavily on the price of a particular keyboard as there would be a return on the investment. If you're not a performing musician.., a $2,000 and up keyboard is just that! It's simply $2,000+ that you're not going to see again. So it's not so easy for us (who don't perform or stopped performing due to other obligations) to drop that kind of dough or take a 6 hour road trip.

Again, not all of us are working musician's I know some of you guys have been performing most of your lives, but try to remember a time when you COULD'T afford to buy (2) of the same keyboard (one for main, and one for back-up)..., and when just buying ONE of them put a strain on you. It's a totally different game for the person buying these VERY expensive keyboards for home use.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-16-2008).]

You CAN buy one from a company who will allow you to return it within a 30 or 60 time period.
I haven't done that, because I would rather buy one from George or Frank. I think either of them will allow you to return it for exchange or credit on another.
I suppose if you could try one from M. Friend and send it back, THEN buy one somewhere else, but we wouldn't do that, would we?
Or just wait for a couple weeks after DNJ buys one and get it cheap from him!
DonM

I refuse to use a return policy just to try out a keyboard...., sadly many will though and then someone else takes the chance of (unknowingly) getting a board that is a customer (repacked) return.

For me...., because I don't perform anymore and don't have the luxury of dropping several thousand dollars (as freely as some here are able to do)..., when I buy a keyboard I simply DO MY HOMEWORK. I read the manual, listen to every audio demo I can, and watch every video online I can.. I read review after review (ignoring all comments about sound quality as that's so subjective) but pay closer attention to the more important comments such as build quality, OS stability, ect. I even go as far as to contact users of the reviews (if their email is available to ask questions).

YouTube is a VALUABLE overlooked option too. Not only do you get to watch personal vids posted on these keyboards, but you can contact the poster and ask more detailed questions.

Buying sight unseen isn't always a bad thing. However, YOU the buyer MUST DO YOUR HOMEWORK first.

Squeak, I agree. A few thousand is too much to gamble, but $1000 or so, imo, is in the range to check out and dump. I believe Harold is selling his E60 for that. Who could go wrong with that purchase?

Harold, I agree with you too. It takes a long time to assess a keyboard; it's potential, ease of use, pitfalls, etc. I believe this is a must stepping stone to end up with what you're looking for. Can't do that without spending lots of time.

The thing about buying to try is that with restocking fees being 15-20%, do you really want to pay that for a demo?

We bitch and moan enough about how expensive these things are, then risk paying 30%+ MORE for them (try three arrangers, buy the last one) than store price.

I'm kind of completely against Zuki's premise that you HAVE to gamble. I'm afraid that, unless you have not bought a new arranger for ten years or so, at best you are only getting an incremental improvement. You really want to gamble whether THAT is worth risking 15%+ of a $3000+ price, just to get a few more sounds, a few more styles, and other than that, not a whole lot else?

If you spend most of your efforts tracking down new styles, converting older styles or cross-platform styles, and getting intimately familiar with your current arranger, you will often find that the need or desire for a brand new one goes away. Unfortunately, of course, this forum, with it's rabid focus on perpetual upgrading, rather than on MUSIC (which you would think is the actual POINT of using an arranger!) might tend to make you think that, unless you are trading up for the latest thing the second it hits the market, you are falling behind.

Nothing could be further from the truth! You should merely regaining your sanity, and perhaps finally focusing on MUSIC rather than technology. A ten year old arranger, in the hands of someone that lives breathes and dreams MUSIC, will sound better than the latest TOTL arranger in the hands of someone more obsessed about specs than changes.

Every one of us has had the experience of hearing someone GREAT play a POS keyboard we wouldn't have bought in a million years. Ask yourself whether THAT guy obsesses about the latest keyboard as much as you do. Then perhaps reassess your priorities...

Squeak, I guess I look at things from a different viewpoint. One day out of my schedule isn't going to cost that much, even if the day is spent driving a couple hundred miles to personally inspect a keyboard. The money I spend in gasoline is chump change compared to shipping costs, restocking fees and the agrivation. If driving to New England wasn't such a pain in the butt I would head to Frankie's store, if for nothing else, just to meet him and some other zone members along the way.

I'm a bit different in that I keep my keyboards for a lot longer than many zone members. I do my best to learn every aspect of the operating system and utilize every feature available on that keyboard. I only get rid of a keyboard when something really exciting strikes my fancy. The PSR-3000 was light years ahead of the PSR-2000--that's why I bought it. If the T3 is equally better than the PSR-3000, which is what I'm hearing from the vast majority of the T3 owners, and it fits within my weight constraints, it's very likely that I'll buy it. If it does not meet MY criteria, that one day trip to the nearest dealer was well with the time and money. Sending it back for a credit toward another high-priced keyboard just doesn't seem very smart from a business standpoint. In this case you would by tying up more than $3,000 for an undetermined time. And, with some retailers, that time frame may be longer than store policy allows. With some retailers you must use a store credit within a prescribed period or loose it. I'm not ready to toss that kind of money into the fire just to watch it burn.

Good Luck,

Gary, the overcautious senior citizen!