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#251066 - 12/17/08 08:04 AM
Re: How do you buy a keyboard when you can't locate one to try?
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
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Yeah..., it's going to be fun going through Russ's collection for sure. Russ is less than 2 1/2 hours from my home too. I'll get pics.
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GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.
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#251070 - 12/17/08 11:31 PM
Re: How do you buy a keyboard when you can't locate one to try?
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Senior Member
Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
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Originally posted by squeak_D:
Frank.., the problem is that RolandUS really doesn't give a crap about the arranger line here in the USA. They're more concerned about their sales overseas (as the numbers are much higher there). The pro arranger market (even the semi-pro market) is MUCH smaller here in the USA...
It's getting harder to find a music store today with a keyboard department. Unless you're fortunate enough to have a G. Center, Sam Ash, George Kaye, or Frankie near by it's going to be hard to locate them.
Even locally owned music stores opening their doors today are opening WITHOUT keyboard departments. What I've found over the years is that MANY privately owned music stores are owned by guitar/bass players, and even drummers, and if they do sell keyboards they never hire people who play keys. They're more interested in selling guitars and drums.
You go into these stores today.., and ask for a particular keyboard 99.99% of the time you'll hear "we don't have that in stock, but I can order you one". If you ask why they don't sell keyboards you'll always hear.., we can't find anyone qualified to operate them.., or demo them..., and the cost of running the keyboard department is expensive (which it is too).
Sadly many people today have no choice but to buy their keys "sight unseen". I also think that's part of the reason why you have your dedicated brand X owners. Since the boards are to find in local stores..., people will often stick to the one brand they've been using and because you cannot find stores that sell them, and sell multiple brands, one often sticks to what they know rather than take a chance on something they've never used or seen.
Some of you guys are lucky because you live within a reasonable driving distance to see a keyboard. Personally there's no way in hell I'd take a 6 hour round trip just to test drive a keyboard. Clealy those who find a trip like that worth the effort have much more time on their hands than I do.., and most likely have kids that are much much older than my child.
[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-16-2008).] Sadly Thats true and applies to our store. We have 400 guitars on the walls on two levels,Drums,Amps, PA gear, Bose Mackie, 200 SF of Sheet misic, 12vBaby Grands, All the Clavinovas, Disclaviers, uprights,Clavinova, PSR lines, E lines, We have Korg, (Roland is trying to get in), But we will not carry any workstations or high end Arrangers. (we do have a T3 which we only have becasue I bought one and the owner knew I could demo it even though I told him to save his money).If or when it sells we won't get another. The problem is for some reason applicable to mostly keyboard players, that they buy on the Internet. They will use the store and manpower for Demos then buy on the Net for far less then we will. Because we can make more money on the space with other merchandise that will turn over at better margins. We tried it and got stuck with some workstations for a couple years! Guitar players buy what they play off the wall whether $200 or $4000, PA buyers buy off the floor, Piano and smaller keyboard buyers buy stock.For some reason pro keyboard players are more interested in saving 7% tax then supporting a local music store. So we decided not to carry any workstation or high end arrangers and instead we carry the Korg PA50 and PSR900 and sell the hell out of them. The owner does not want an Internet presence and since he pays for everything that comes through the door within days he feels comfortable doing business like he does. The space workstations and High end arrangers would take up can be better used for merchandise that will actually turn over at a decent margin rather then take up my time demoing them and then getting beat up by Internet dealers. We have no issue with them but we do submit to them. [This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-17-2008).]
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Yamaha Tyros 4 Yamaha Motif XS8 Roland RD700 Casio PX-330 Martin DC Aura Breedlove ATlas Solo Bose MOD II PA 
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#251071 - 12/18/08 11:53 PM
Re: How do you buy a keyboard when you can't locate one to try?
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Member
Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 533
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Thanks to everyone who posted here. I was in a writing mood so I thought I’d go over everything again and make some comments. Nothing earth-shattering…if you have your choice between reading this and going to the dentist for a root canal…..take the root canal!
“You go into these stores today.., and ask for a particular keyboard 99.99% of the time you'll hear "we don't have that in stock, but I can order you one"
Lucky: If there’s anything that annoys me, it’s hearing that phrase: “We don’t have one, but we can order it for you.” That’s a sweet deal...just occupy space on the block with your music store, don’t put out money for merchandise, and make a cool profit when you simply “order” one for somebody!
“If you can't figure out the basics yourself (by reading up in advance, talking to owners here, downloading the manual, etc.), then perhaps something as complex as a TOTL arranger might not be the best thing for you.”
Lucky: How many of us, if we’re not retired, have free time to research a particular keyboard and study the manual? I know I don’t. What I DO know is that I’m paying a hefty mark-up price to a dealer if I purchase from him. What is he doing to earn it? For that mark-up, I don’t accept the onus is on me to spend hours learning about it first, and then drive a distance to audition it to boot. And then if you don’t like what you hear, you start over again on the next board on the list. Time is at a premium.....I'm not retired yet.
“1. The smaller the manufacture, the fewer dealers you will find, so be prepared to travel.”
Lucky: Abacus…I assume you’re speaking Ketron-ese here.
“2. Most manufactures boards have owners clubs or forums, so just contact them and you will usually find some owners locally who will allow you to try there baby out. (It’s also a more relaxed atmosphere, and you will find out things that the salesman doesn’t know, or won’t tell you about).”
I went that route already...no takers. There’s something odd that goes on between musicians. They’re hesitant to show you their own keyboard because then they would have to show you their “chops“ also. Either that or they don’t want you to pass them on the musical ladder (why help him, he might become better than me). I’m not sure what it is. I always try and help other musicians in any way I can. Then again I play well, so maybe that’s why I have no reservations about that.
“Here in the UK we are a little better of as there is a good selection of dealers who stock top end arrangers.”
Lucky: Graham, yes, I noticed that. If you really want to enjoy playing music and experience audience enthusiasm, you move to Europe. There you’re surrounded by music, and the good stuff….not the rubbish that gets played here (anyone catch these “poor excuses for bands” that the late night talk shows sign off with every night?).
“You could try a place called Audioworks
they have on display
Korg PA2xPro
Korg PA50
Ketron SD5
Ketron Midjay Plus
Yamaha Tyros 3
Yamaha PSR-S900
And I hear the guy there is a pretty nice and might I add handsome guy”
Lucky: I had to stick this in because it’s time for a commercial break.
P.S. ……and he plays well too!
“I've been waiting for the local GC to get a T3 now for a couple months. If it doesn't show up soon I'm going to drive to Washington Music in Rockville, Maryland. It's a 90-mile drive that in this part of the world with continual grid-lock traffic, could take three hours each way.”
Lucky: Ahhhhh……now we‘re coming down to the gist of it all. Traffic and more traffic. By the time you get to where they have your keyboard on display, you’re too beat to try it out. You need to get a motel for the night and come back in the morning FRESH! Gone are the days when it took you 90 minutes to travel 90 miles. We had a brief period there AFTER the superhighways were built and BEFORE traffic was “built!”
“Understand that many of us DON'T HAVE the luxury of just jumping in a car and driving hundreds of miles to demo a keyboard...understand that quite a few members here AREN'T there yet.....we still have our many familiy obligations, work, and other things that prevent us from making such "expensive" decisions…and don't have the time to travel like some members here do.”
Lucky: a great summation Squeak does here.
“do some extensive YOU TUBE searches on the KB your interested in and watch & listen good”
Lucky: I couldn’t count high enough to tell you the number of hours I’ve spent down at the Library checking out demo’s on Youtube and other sites. Very little return on your investment time! None of these video’s shows me what a keyboard is capable of as most of these snippets are simply someone enjoying themselves playing their favorite tune. Even Yamaha’s Black Belt player Peter Baartman (Mas Que Nada) failed to impress me when he played the Tyros. But...Don Mason does a darn good job on his Ketron with that great guitar simulation....and he uses his "fill" button too...that's unheard of among arranger players. I also liked Joe Ayala doing Sway. "One, two Cha-Cha-Cha!"
“Or just wait for a couple weeks after DNJ buys one and get it cheap from him!”
Lucky: Yeah, I made up my own mail-order catalog with a Ketron Audya on every page and I send one anonymously to Donny every other day hoping the subliminal message gets through and he buys one, tires of it quickly, and I then buy it from him 24 hours later at one of his great bargain-basement prices!
“Squeak, I agree. A few thousand is too much to gamble, but $1000 or so, imo, is in the range to check out and dump”
“I'm kind of completely against Zuki's premise that you HAVE to gamble”
Lucky: I’ll go with this too. The free spending’ big money days are pretty much over (unless you’re a Kennedy). I’m OK financially, but $1,000 chunks out of my pocketbook are not on my agenda these days!
“For a "toy" fix, get your butt to Lexington. Here in the warehouse are 100 plus guitars, 25 or so basses, vibes, Claviniva, GW-8, SH-201, Midjay, WK-8000, NP-30, a Hammond XB, 1949 M, old Micro Korg, MS-60, SD-5, A rare old PAIA string machine/piano, and lots of other of oddities...melodicas, banjos, mandolins, accordians and more.”
Lucky: Time for another commercial break.
Lucky: commercial break over. Russ...why don’t you contact one of the major news networks (CBS, NBC, etc). They love offbeat, interesting stories like this. Then we can all see the “instrument depot.”
Kingfrog...I’m still trying to figure out where you live?
Lucky’s final thoughts: Being a “spiritual” person, I figured it out. The Gods are telling me (for some unknown reason that just might be Ketron-related) to “hold off” and don’t buy anything. I’ve found in life, for myself anyway, that when I don’t know what to do about an something, it’s best to do NOTHING. That’s always worked for me.
Either rate, I’ve come this far. I’m now going to wait and see if Ketron starts delivery on the Audya.
Lucky
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