I was talking about the second song you posted.

There is an easy way for me to form an opinion, or to "judge" something, (in lack of a better word).

I just click the link, and if I like the sound of it, I turn up the volume a little and leave the room.

Well, your song was like listening to something on the radio. That (for me) means you had good mixing, good quality instruments, and good sense of music, to produce something that could be played in the airwaves. Worth my time to comment. Post more, thank you.

The recording quality of the first song is very good but the timing, or lack thereof, on the drums and percussion is atrocious and detracts from the song altogether.

The second song is clearly a demo and it shows so I'll not comment on that song other than to say once again your drum and percussion parts are horribly out of time.

You're obviously talented but it appears playing or programming drums is a major weak point for you. I'd suggest either hiring a drum programmer or great drummer to cut your songs. You are doing yourself a great disservice by presenting songs to the public with timing issues. Unless of course you don't care what the general public thinks about your music which probably isn't the case.

Arrangers can be wonderful tools to help write songs and present them in a better light but styles have to be reworked to fit particular songs most of the time. If your programming skills aren't up to snuff you'll find once again the backing tracks will detract from your song rather than add to it. No matter what style of music you write and record always try to present it in the best possible manner. Keep up the good work!

I accept your criticism with an open mind and a huge..."Duh" LOL I have far far more "weaknesses than just Drum programming. Playing keyboards is one of them! Thats why I am excited about using an Arranger. However like the guy on the ship people bashed, if people like it thats the icing. If they don't. No harm no foul. I will never please a professional producer/engineer. Hell they can't please each other! So I don't aim for them.

. However I do not believe for a second I am doing a "disservice" to myself for sharing the imperfect music. That was the best I could do at the time I did it. Either people like it or they don't. My joy is in the process, not the accolades.I appreciate the kudos like anyone would but I thankfully don't depend on mass appeal for my living. Which is a good thing.

I already know where the weaknesses are because I am acutely aware of the limits of my ability but I do not believe that is a reason NOT to share it in a public.People buying home made CDs don't have huge expectations. They are just happy to take a piece of the show home with them. I'm happy to collect $10 for the CD and a mailing list for future songs.

I'm trying the arranger route to do the arranging and playing because I am not an arranger any more then any singer songwriter who calls on David Foster or Michael Omartian to produce their work. Nor am I interested in seeking those lofty levels of accomplishment. I'm 54 years old! Its a pass time, Always has been. Definitely under no illusions here.

Thanks for listening.



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-28-2008).]

Thanks..You are no different from Joe Public. If he likes it he can enjoy it dispite the warts.

As you wish, Heres some more punishment LOL
These songs were among 50 or so recorded in late 90's early 2000 and are songs I believe are worthy of re rerecording using the T3 voice set and the better gear (and hopefully will benefit from years of singing everyday) I bring to the table today.
http://www.box.net/shared/53mtncqd1m

http://www.box.net/shared/kehjnvtpy4

http://www.box.net/shared/8odyvakji8

http://www.box.net/shared/8odyvakji8




[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-27-2008).]

The 2nd Iiked more.

Funny how people will play in front of an audience ...think nothing of it & are confident they sound good....but on an Internet forum will never post a demo, or song, etc, in fear of critical opinions...


very weird.

Oh gawd. New approach, same ol' crap.

I think what is 'very weird' is....those people who can't let it go. I worry about people who become obsessive about other people's actions, especially when it's no concern of theirs. Nigel has made his feelings about it very clear but I guess there are always going to be those that choose to ignore it.

chas

Well Chas what will be will be ...
I personally dont give a crap about what anyone else does...I just do MY thing....I see it really bothers you very much but thats ok.....so let's see, today I've annoyed you with incorrect grammar & about asking musicians that only talk talk talk to simply back up what they are offering as to advice to post a musical sample once in a while to solidify their statements which in turn makes us all learn from, "Che sera sera," . Dragging Nigel into this will not change how I feel about it sorry opinions is what we do on a discussion forum. I guess we'll all just talk & remain exclusivly email secretive about what we play.

Now if you'll excuse me I have a cold Sam Adams Cherry Wheat brew to enjoy & watch some football.... Go Eagles!

I too find it peculiar that there is a dearth of personal accomplishment posted in a forum like this. Criticism cannot be taken to heart. No one has received more public and private criticism than a Neil Diamond impersonator or ANY impersonator. LOL

I remember producing my own little track show with two background singers in the mid eighties for one night and sold tickets. I was heckled so bad by one group in the room of 300 the show was stopped and they were removed. After that I memorized a bucket load of comebacks like a comedian.

The point is if I took ANY negative criticism seriously I would have never seen and performed at vacation resorts, theaters, amphitheaters all over the US and Abroad. Diego Garcia was the longest plane rides. I would not be semi retired at 50 because I would have not moved to Las Vegas and been seen by the Originator of the tribute Show, John Stuart who I worked for for many years. I could not afford to work in a music store part time selling dreams. I would not have sold thousands of home produced CDs of MY songs. I would have caved and believed in those who said I sucked in papers publicly and privately, and in performance. Just like the guy who got bashed in another thread. I feel for him. I have been there..bought the T-Shirt. Used it to wash my cars and bike.

As far as the song goes. I learned a long time ago from very wise people its not about the production.ITSS. (It's the song stupid) Lighting won't save a bad show, nor music and great acting a poor script. A good Song will shine through the worst production. I had the opportunity to hear demos of some hits before they were hits. I GOT it. A good song should stand alone without production on just piano voice or guitar voice. That's the litmus test. The production is the Christmas wrapping which is sometimes better then the gift.

Today people sell production. There are no standards. Its all dated. Just the Way You Are is dated but stands the test of time, as does Sweet Caroline which apparently is a theme song for the Red Soxs

Song first wrapping second. I have high hopes to wrap the song in better wrapping paper using professional players who created the arrangement styles as well as continuing to arrange my own work using portions of styles and sampled loops of real drummers. I hate programming anything.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-28-2008).]