I have Logitech z5500 speaker system and now i wan't to upgrade to a better speaker system for playing Tyros3 on the stage.
I need your advice.Please help.

Thanks,
Sunny

Is there any thing better than Bose L1 model 2?

The Yamaha Stagepas 500/300...much less expensive, too.

Ian

Look at HK audio,very nice sound and german quality > http://www.hkaudio.com/products.php?ptype=ps&mode=prod&id=69&pk_id=22&sub=facts
Or > http://www.fohhn.com/index.php?id=12&L=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=290&cHash=938d0f0535

Impuls

http://www.tapcoworld.com/products/thump15a/index.html


I love the sound & weight of these units ...


Sunny I guess you dont like the Bose sound for you to ask if there is better? More so its what you put through it then the system itself.....again take your KB go to the store and A/B as many systems as you can at full stage volume then make a decision..

DO NOT listen to anyone here ....its a personal decision that can only be made by YOU ALONE!

Good Luck...I personally didn't like my Bose PAS after using it a few months & promptly sold it.
Or come to the Jam in Shreveport LA Jan 18,19,20,21.. we'll have a few BOSE systems setup for you to try there.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-28-2008).]

Is there anything better than the Bose L1 or Model II? NO

Great advice Donny.

Let's hope they ignore the rest of your post...

Don-I think I know the point you're trying to get across here but to actually say to not listen to anyone is an exaggeration.

YES, hands on, with your actual rig is the optimal settings to audition a new piece, but there is quite a bit to be learned from reading others experiences both good & bad.

Actually, I'd say for the record the absolute best way to decide if a new piece of equipment is right for anyone is to do your homework...research the item as much as you can on the 'net. Read the comments posted on the user forums, spend time looking at the owners manual, etc.

If you do your homework and are able to actually put hands on, then you've done about all you can do to help you make a decision...

Lord knows, Don-I've listened to your thoughts on stuff and found it to be very helpful...



------------------
Bill in Dayton

DO NOT listen to anyone here ...

Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain...

If you like what you hear from the Logitech Z-5500, you'll love the Bose L1 and Model II. And, if you do not like what you hear, Bose will allow you to return the system within 45 days for a full refund--no questions asked.

Gary

I happen to like the Yamaha StagePAS 500 system myself. Sound quality is subjective of course; I like the form factor (I put the little mixer right at my keyboard rig) and the sound is quite good - not as good as a Meyer Sound system (which costs alot more) but great for most gigs I do for a few hundred people or less.

Jim

Bill first off the word "BETTER" in the topic title is pissin' contest fuel right from the start........I'm very fickle when it comes to gear as you & everyone knows... ...but Ive been in the game LONG enough to know a few things & smart enough to keep my eyes & ears open to New Things also... Most of the top respectable brands of Audio reinforcement gear of today & some from yesterday too are excellent & do the job admirably for sure.
What you play though them is a huge factor.....How you play & your playing ability is of extreme importance, and then there is the PERSONAL OPINION factor which is beyond anything listed here. Then we have playing in your house with some computer system speakers vs performing professionally ON STAGE...let's throw in how you set up, do you use a mixer? do you REALLY know how to EQ your sound specifically for EACH ROOM or are you a standard "SMILEY" frequency kind of guy?
Are you comfortable transporting your audio system & setting it up day after day? What does it sound like "PUSHED to it's limits versus a low key cocktail hour?" How much does it weigh? Is there enough bottom end?.....Not to be harsh...but believe me when I say don't listen to anyone, there is NO "CLONE THINKING" for your sound... ....use YOUR EARS...Home work is OK for some buying scenarios but when it comes to musical gear, It's YOU, YOUR EARS,YOUR COMFORT ZONE, YOUR POCKET, plain & simple.


Be a Leader .... NOT a Follower
And dont let the High price of the bose blur you concious....I dumped mine because it wasn't doing the job for my music, I dont need to substanciate spending $2500.00 on a system....No offense.. then we have people claiming a $200.00 PC game system sounds just as good as the BOSE?...if thats the case go buy 10 Logitech Z systems and stack em high to the ceiling... Pallleeeeaaassseee!

Again USE YOUR EARS......NOT YOUR POCKETS!


Enjoy



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-28-2008).]

Money no object, the Bose would be my choice. Indeed, when it comes to retiring my current amplification, it would be a tough job for anyone to persuade me to buy anything else, at any price.

Ofcourse there is!
Bose L model III

Just my 2 cents, but I prefer the powered monitor stereo setup, especially to hear those fantastic sounds that come out of the T3.

Mackie 450s are my choice. Very easy to lug and setup. On the floor pointing up provides crystal clear highs and nice bass.

Everyone has different tastes and it took me a lot of effort to come up with something that made me happy. Sounds like you'll go through the same process

Good luck.

YOU ASKED FOR OPINION therefore LISTEN to EVERYONE here except those who tell you not to. LOL. Everyone's opinion is relevant to their setups and reasons. Read them and then try some systems out.


For Us...... no. We Went from a Mackie 808s/JBL MR15 System to the Bose. We want everyone to hear the same thing we hear. Unless they are sitting behind us that goal is reached.

A conventional PA sounds the best for only those sitting in the sweet sport will hear the music as intended and you won't hear what they hear. A conventional PA system is like very large studio monitors. You have to be equally apart and centered from the speakers to get the best possible listening experience if one uses a stereo mix, which is rare (or should be) in a larger venue.

Because if the listener is off axis and off to one side of the room,and discrete mix left or right music will arrive at their ears reflected off the walls rather than direct and milliseconds later (which creates the muddy sound many systems set up for stereo in a large room with only two far apart arrays can deliver. If the listener is way way off to the side and close to the right or left speaker they only hear that information leaving "holes" that are being filled across the room that may eventually get to them. If they are way way off axis like 160 degrees from a speaker they will only hear reflected sound. Again not nearly as good as those centered and never what you you hear. The Bose corrects all these issues and creates no new ones I have experienced.

Sound travel Time is the enemy. Bose eliminates that for everyone in the room hears all the direct music in phase and not indirectly. There are time alignment boxes for PAs for a reason in relatively large halls. Even your home surround system has time alignment adjustments in a very much smaller space.


Another huge benefit is finances. $3000 sounds like a lot until you put a good Yamaha or JBL/Crown/Mackie system together.
IF finances are a consideration, consider you only will have $700 or so in a Bose System. The $3000 systems sells all day long and fast for $2300-$2500. We had $2500 in the MAckie/JBL System and sold it for $1000 after six months of trying.

The final benefit is the size and set up time. A "caveman can do it" in 5 minutes making last minute moves across the room easy.

Like everyone else pretty much said. this is opinion based on personal experience and choice for the reasons stated. Your mileage , needs ,requirements may be a lot different. Bose offers a generous trial period. I understand why.

Second choice. A 500 and a 300 Yamaha StagePas system or two Yamaha StagePass 300 systems. Why? because you can spread the speakers to cover a wider area side to side without reflection issues and again they can be put in the back seat of a Corolla.


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-28-2008).]

With that said kingfrog......your musical retail busness theory has a few holes in it....just look at the average Band, DJ, or most Musical acts on stage & I live between New York City, Philadelphia, & Atlantic City so I quite often see many acts in my travles working... ...guess what you don't see much of? the Bose PAS system....there is a reason for that I would say...yes the Bose is a good system like so many others, but it's far from the best for most peoples needs.Dont let the hype fool ya its an expensive lesson.

carry on.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-28-2008).]

.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-28-2008).]

Nah at most its a $700 "lesson". More than not less than that. The Bose is always in demand on Ebay. A Buy It Now of $$2300-$2400 on a Mod II with Tone Match will sell in less than a day IF and when you can find one for sale on Ebay or elsewhere. Try that with ANY other conventional PA set up. There are garages,storage units and attics filled with unsold speakers mixers and amps.


I maintain most OMBs are are scared off by the initial price when LOOKING AT THE VISUAL of a Stick and small box beside it. Tradition is a hard habit to break and sells well. Economically its a great choice. We sold 7 systems to OMBS since we started carrying them in the Summer. Not bad for a 30,000 pops market in a resort area, Everyone of those buyers could get 3/4 of what they paid for them fast and easy on Ebay. Try to find one. When you do watch it disappear and take note of the selling price.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-28-2008).]

What you should be asking yourself is ... WHY are they for sale on ebay in the first place by users?

Exactly!

Come on guys....People sell stuff for all kinds of reasons , yeah not everyone will be pleased with the results, but some may need the money, others may quit performing.

BUT the extreme rarity and very quick sales turnaround at prices points few used PA systems that do get listed can command speak volumes to me. not to mention personal experience.

Especially since they have been selling the LT1 since 2003 ad the Bose supported LT1 Forum is extremely active and has many members. Like any manufacturer forum there will be those who don;t care for it and defenders. You have to look at the big picture always, http://bose.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x


Tradition dies hard.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-28-2008).]

And the same quote and response could also be applied to the Yamaha PAS too..and the Mackies, and the H+K, and the Tapco Thump, and the JBL's and the, oh goodness we could go on forever.

It does seem however, that more of those systems are seen on places like Ebay, than the Bose systems.

Is it because there are more of them sold? Because they are worse? Because the Bose is better?

Who knows, apart from this...that the seller is selling because it doesn't meet THEIR needs at that time.

Doesn't mean the gear isn't good. (although there are exceptions in my view,which I will not go into here)

Let's not get too parochial with our current gear list hey guys!! Try to stay objective.

Dennis

Right on Dennis.

As Gary D and Don M have always said...the system isn't for everyone....and, of course, neither are other brands.

I know it didn't suit my needs as I don't want a system that fills the room...I want the sound to project only a certain distance, which is why I use short throw speakers.

I also want to play in stereo...if my needs were to be those requiring a room filling system, then I would probably look closely at two Bose systems and run in stereo....pricey? Yeah....but, one only needs to buy it once, unlike arrangers.

My system (a pair of Yamaha MS60s)is 15 years old, and when I bought them, they were close to $900 each....but, you get what you pay for, and the Bose is definitely a high-quality system as well.

It would last for many years, and would be a good investment.

Ian

Hey Ian...

Yeah I can understand why you would be wanting to keep the MS60's. A very decent speaker for their size imho.

I reckon they will still be sounding good in another 5 years, when some of the current offerings (particularly in the smaller sized speakers) have been disposed of .

Dennis

I've long suspected a lot of the Bose-haters haven't actually auditioned the L1, and are simply indulging in a Luddite-esque knee-jerk reaction to the form factor.

Yet the form factor not only is the LT's strngth from an aural standpoint but a physical one as well.

What on earth would convince you of that? Oh yes, the unreasoned zealotry and complete disdain of anyone else's opinion, I would imagine Heaven help your self-esteem if it COULD be possible to try a PAS system (like I and many more here have) and STILL not like it FAR better to pretend we are just spouting off negative comments with absolutely no agenda than obstructionism, isn't it..?

OTOH, perhaps it is WE who don't gush over the PAS system that should idiotically assume that the PAS lovers have never used a conventional system, and only like it BECAUSE of the form factor....? No, that would be stupid, wouldn't it?

Hi Seamaster,

To be fair I think that is a bit harsh.. As I understand it, most of the people here who hvae said they didn't like it actually HAVE tried them.

I think Donny, for one, even gigged for a while with his. And perhaps others who have tried it also gigged with it.

For the record I have an L1 system, after years of "conventioanl PA systems, and for me it was a good fit.

Doesn't mean the same size will fit someone else though.

For the OP to get good advice we all need to remain objective and give as balanced a view, and from as wide a cross section of user experience as we can.

Dennis

I think one of the primary reasons that people's needs vary so much, vis-a-vis the PAS, is that some peoples' jobs tend to involve playing background (or low volume foreground) music over an entire venue, whilst others' needs are for a system that is LOUD and proud close to the stage, with as rapid a drop-off as possible from there on outwards. Obviously, the PAS is good for one need, but not for the other.

But, let's face it, if form factor were the ONLY consideration, who WOULDN'T want a PA that looked that cool?

Over the past half-century, I, like many other performers have owned a lot of sound systems. All of them were good to excellent systems and I never owned one that I did not like. Each time I made a change, which has pretty much been every couple years since 1958, the change was made for a specific reason.

Most of the time the upgrade was in wattage, which many of have done in hopes of not only improving our ability to play larger venues, but additionally, we hoped to improve sound quality by using high-wattage sound systems that were not stressed to their maximum. I always figured there was no such thing as too much wattage, and for smaller jobs you can always turn the volume down while still maintaining the best sound quality.

Consequently, I ran the sound system gauntlet, beginning with a 100-watt, el-cheapo guitar amp and small mixer up to 1,500-watt stereo systems that damned near required a fork-lift to get the equipment out of the van(s). THEY ALL SOUNDED GOOD!

I tried every brand I could find in the mid-Atlantic region and I traveled hundreds of miles to hear other well-known performers and take a close look at their sound systems. I also carefully noted their setups, speaker sizes, venue layouts, audience compositions, anything and everything that would possibly make my performances not only sound better, but additionally, make my performances sound better than anyone else. Granted, there were lots of outstanding performers out there, and many of them were extremely talented and would have sounded fantastic using almost any quality sound system.

My first large, conventional sound system was a Peavey, 600-watt stereo, powered mixer , which fired into a pair of Peavey SP5G speakers. Putting these babies up on poles was a real challenge, and more often than not there was no one around to help--even when I played with a 5-piece country band. It sounded good, but the falloff, even when on poles, was awful. In order to reach the back end of a large hall you had to blow the heads off the folks sitting within 25 feet of the stage.

From there the power went up to a larger Peavey system, monster SP1 speakers that tipped the scales at more than 100 pounds each. We had four of them, and they never went on poles because they were just too heavy and it would have been dangerous. Speakers were stacked on top of these, and there were some big NYE jobs with the band where we had them stacked three high, plus we all had powered Peavey monitors. Setup time was insane on the larger jobs, often taking nearly two hours.

I traveled to NJ and listened to DNJ, who at the time was performing in a relatively large hall with a pair of Barbetta Sona 32C powered speakers. They really sounded good, the falloff was not nearly as bad as the Peavey systems, and because they were bi-amped the clarity was better than the Peaveys. This prompted me to sell the Peavey systems I had, which were stacked up like cordwood at the time. They were all sold locally, and the guys that purchased them are still using them in small niteclub and restaurant jobs.

The Barbettas were used for a couple years and they did an excellent job. I also listened to a guy using a pair of Mackies down in Virginia, but they didn't, IMO, sound as good as the Barbettas.

When Logitech came out with their Z-2200 I purchased the system for use with my PC in the office. One day I connected it to my Yamaha PSR-2000 and was amazed at all the sounds I was hearing that were not heard with the Barbetta Sona 32Cs. The truly amazing thing, though, was the clarity. No muddy sounds at all, even with just this small, 2.1 sound system. When the Z-5500 5.1 surround-sound system became available, I immediately purchased one, modified it so it could be used on smaller NH jobs, and it performed flawlessly.

A few months later Uncle Dave purchased the Bose L1 and raved about not only the features, but additionally how quickly he was able to set up his equipment in a very small space. I had heard Dave perform on a few occasions prior to his Bose purchase, talked with him on the phone about the system, then made the 3-hour drive to where he was performing, which was an Italian restaurant/bar combination where acoustics and venue layout were awful.

Dave was performing at ground level, the front of his keyboard was only 4-feet from the back of the nearest bar stool, the L1 was about 4 feet to his left and about 2-feet aft of the keyboard. The sound was uniform throughout the 3-room venue, the clarity was beyond description, the volume was such that everyone in the restaurant could hold a conversation without having to raise their voice, and the guy sitting directly in front of the L1 was whispering sweet-nothings into the ear of the barmaid.

I ordered the L1 directly from Bose the next day, sold the Barbetta Sonas to a good friend who uses and loves them, sold all the remaining sound systems for a fraction of what I paid for them, and the rest is history.

When I'm at home, playing my PSR-3000 in the office I love the stereo sound that comes from both the keyboard speakers, and from the Z-5500 system that I still keep for a backup. When I'm performing, however, I want to hear everything the audience hears and the L1 provides me with the ability to do this. I hear what the folks in the back of the venue hear, what the people sitting 20 feet to my right hear, what everyone hears. For me, at this stage of the game, it does what I want it to do. The audience size, venue size and room configuration are no longer a problem.

Some folks feel they perform best with a conventional sound system. And, this may be the case for THEM! If YOU MUST have stereo, then the L1 is not for you. If you feel the necessity to blow the walls down by cranking up the volume to deafening levels, the L1 is probably not for you either. However, if you're looking for crystal-clear, high-quality sounds that fill a room with very little falloff, the L1 may be what you are looking for.

And, as I have stated many, many times in the past, this is one of the few sound systems you can try for up to 45 days without risking a dime. Bose sound quality is unsurpassed, their service department is the best, failure rates are almost unheard of, and for ME, unless something really incredible shows up in the world of conventional sound systems, the L1 will be MY choice for a long time to come.

Sorry to write a damned book about MY sound system experiences,

Gary

Ha ha! But it's what we do best here! :P

We can all talk till were blue in the face about this subject ....but the question "is is there anything better?" for your needs?...And the simple answer is Of Course There Is.THis is getting almost as intense as do I need 76 keys?...bottom ine this is all "PERSONAL TASTE"

Whew.. I feel so much better now

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-29-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-29-2008).]

Thanks for your advice.I'm still confused how this Bose L1 model-II sound good when it is mono?I think stereo amplification is appropriate for making the keyboard voices and styles sound authentic.

Sunny

Based on my great experiences with my Mackie Hr824's monitors in home...and hearing the Mackie 450's lately on demo...it would be a no brainer for me to get the 450's for stage.
About $1,000 a pair.

Lee

Well, you sure have my vote and will not be disappointed - I love 'em. Used as wedges - sound terrific. Now just add a PA800 and you'll be all set

One note: I replaced the factory power cables with more flexible Radio Shack ones. They fit tighter and won't split like the hard shorter Mackies.

Stereo gets my vote also Sunny

When I was demoing the Bose PA a few weeks ago I took my regular rig in and set it up next to the Bose, so I could really A/B them...

With regard to "stereo"...

(I use a Tyros 2)...

Sitting in front and in the middle of my rig, Yes, there was stereo separation that I loved...

There was a slightly better clarity, but at my position, it wasn't significant.

The difference occurred 15 ft. in front of me and then increased substantially the further away I went.

At roughly 15 ft...you began to hear the stereo signals blend into one...

At roughly 50 ft...it was totally blended And there was dispertion drop off...

At 75 ft...I couldn't seem to hear my normal rig as well as I wanted to, but the Bose was sounding terrific...

At roughly 100+ ft, the thought of stereo was now an utter after-thought, and volume was certainly an issue from my old rig...

At this distance, the bose was a very good volume and sounded like it did when I was sitting right in front of it...

At that point, I was sold...

I love the stereo output I heard from the original set up, but once you got in front of it, no one else heard it like I did...So, for the ease of set up, the reduced strain on my back and the cleaner appearance on stage, it was a no brainer...for me...



------------------
Bill in Dayton

Has it occurred to anyone that people at the back of the hall are there for a reason?

Not everyone WANTS to hear the music front and center. Some of them want a quiet, intimate conversation with the hottie they just met! Some have hearing problems that make them sensitive to loud sounds. Some just came to eat, and weren't really interested in being 'entertained' while they chow down.

And all this while SOME of the customers want to get down and boogie on the dance floor!

In over thirty years of performing, I never had a customer or club owner come up and go 'you aren't loud enough in the back of the room'... But I've heard 'Can you turn it down a bit, we can't talk at the bar' enough times!

I agree that in a low volume, mild dining conditions environment, the PAS with it's ability to spread evenly is ideal. But don't assume that that is what everyone NEEDS... Some of us are still rocking in the free world!

I'm not going to try to sell anyone on why they should or shouldn't use the Bose system.

In the just over 3 years I've been playing gigs my history is:

Peavy KB 300 ( a gift to me )
Roland KC150
Logitech z5500
Mackie 450 ( had for a week then returned, replaced with the Barbetta 31c)
Roland CM30 cube monitors
Barbetta 31c

Now the Bose PAS L1.

I have not looked back and plan on keeping the Barbetta as a back up. My only regret is I just didn't buy the Bose in the first place. Nothing wrong with the Mackie or the Barbetta. I like what I hear from the Bose, I'm the one who has to be happy with it and I am. Of course at the price I paid( less than the cost of a pair of Barbetta or Mackies) it was a no brainer.

....and the beat goes on....
....La De Da De Da....
....and the beat goes on.

Eddie

Sunny, I can't help but think you deliberately posted this to incite the same old boring arguments re the Bose.

If not (and IF not, I apologise to you and retract the above statement) then may I suggest you simply do a search for all the recent & semi-recent threads involving the Bose, as there's nothing new here in this thread for anyone.

So, taking your request seriously, may I ask, are you a professional, or a part timer or a hobbyist Entertainer? (I don't know you well enough, so please fill me in)

The reason I ask is that I think if you do play for a living, you SHOULD indeed be asking your original question. If you are a Part timer/Hobbyist (and that doesn't make you any less "legitimate" on these boards in my view) you should at least know the Bose is relatively pricey compared to some smaller, simpler solutions, and perhaps the Bose is overkill for you in terms of price, quality, and learning curve - it is indeed a plug n play system, (much simpler than many PA's I've seen and/or operated), but there IS a certain period of "adjustment" you go through to get the Bose sounding optimal - i.e. the VERY best it can, - and you WILL want it to sound the very best once you start messing about with it.

Please accept my post in the constructive spirit intended.