Ian, I have noticed in a couple of posts you mentioning the Yamaha Kx88.

I was wondering if you could give me your views on it as a controller keyboard and as a standalone piano? (With an appropriate module of course)

Thanks

Dennis

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 12-31-2008).]

http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/kx/index.html

Dennis,

I've only had the KX8 for a short while...not even sure if it's available to the public yet.

I'm presently using it to control the Tyros3 and the S900...mainly for solo piano because I need/want 88 weighted graded hammer action.

I love the action...it seems much like my old P85 although I must say it feels a bit smoother, and it also seems a bit heavier/stiffer(perhaps 'cause it's still new)...it's got a heavier feel than the 88 key Rolands I've played, but I prefer a heavy action....it is also very responsive.

At first I wasn't fond about where the pitch/mod wheels are located, but they do keep the instrument from being excessively wide and as I get used to them, they seem to be a wise choice for Yamaha...I can grip the side of the keyboard and use them like like the ones on the S900/Tyros3.

A lot of it's features are wasted on me as I use no VSTs or recording software, preferring to record on the S900 or Tyros3 using the onboard Song Creator and ultimately the audio to USB recorder.

I'll probably get into it more next month when it will be used in a studio.

It's well built and not too heavy...a little heavier than the P85 it replaced.

Did I mention I really love the action.

Ian

Thanks Ian,

Yes you did mention the action and that's exactly the info I was after, apart from controller use.

They have just become available in Australia, at a good price surprisingly (about $850 AUD)and it looks a good unit, 88 keys with a workable width.

Cool, thanks again I appreciate the info. It might work well with the Sonic Cell.

Dennis

I was thinking the very same thing, but I haven't been able to get my hands on a Sonic Cell.

The action really is very nice...weighted just enough, not at all sluggish...it feels....expensive.

Ian

Ian, I agree on the Roland weighted piano comparison having used an RD300SX and the RD700SX, although I haven't tried the latest with the ivory feel keys. Everyone raves about them, but way too expensive.

No, the KX8 might just fill the space, that I was missing. As you are a piano player I take good notice of your comments.

Now to try and talk my dealer into getting one into stock for display

Cheers
Dennis

KX8 is available in UK. Best Internet price I've seen is £391 and free delivery.

Seems attractive but pricey for "just" an extended KB for Ty3 although since I've got the Ty3 Piano voice sounding pretty good now it may be a justifiable addition.

OTOH there's the NP30 with lighter touch as I understand it. I "seem" to be OK playing Full KB piano with the feel of the Ty3 keys but would I play it any more expressively with a KX8 feel I wonder?.
NP30 has less notes but at a more "it's only money" price of £149.

I haven't been able to try a NP30 yet, does anyone have any comments on its desirability as a controller KB, primarily for use with piano voice?

John

Hi John,

I had the NP-30 for about 4 months and now my girlfriend has it.

I thought it was a tad too light actioned for my uses, but it does give more range for piano work.

My girlfriend, who is an accomplished piano player, loves the NP-30 as just a portable piano...she does a lot of choral directing and the piano is ideal for practicing as it easily moved.

She finds the action just fine, although she says going to a "real" piano after playing the NP-30 for some time, is a bit of a shock and takes considerable adjustment.

I'm getting her a P85 in the spring...I had one here for several months and she loved playing it, saying it felt very close to the real deal.

It also has real MIDI ports, so it also makes a pretty good controller, although it doesn't have pitch/mod wheels....it also is very lightweight, being around 25 lbs.

We both love the KX8 action....I actually use it to trigger that great modified piano sound you sent me some time ago (I have it in the S900 and the Tyros3)...and the KX8's mod wheel even changes the tone.

I see a few people on YPKO have been using the NP-30 as a lower keyboard...I find it awkward having the main keyboard on top as it is not very convenient changing style variations etc.

I set the KX8 off to the side, on it's own stand, as it is used mainly for solo piano.

Ian

My understanding is that the KX8 has the same keybed as the MM8 and the 61 key version has the same keybed as the MM6. If I had my choice I'd take the KX8 over the NP-30 for piano feel. The NP's keys really aren't weighted at all. It's more a "resistance trick" to them. They're kinda between semi-weighted and synth action. You get used to them fairly quickly though, but they feel nothing like a piano. Good inexpensive 76 controller though, but understand it's a very limited controller too.

If I had my choice of the KX8 or NP for driving the SonicCell I'd take the KX8 without question. It's a dedicated controller with more features and it's designed soley as a controller where as the NP's just a cheap digital piano with a few controller options that are secondary to it's intended use.., midi seemed more of an afterthought on the NP-30..

Weighs about 33 lbs, doesn't it, Ian?

That's more than a lot of people want to carry for their main arranger, let alone a remote keyboard just for piano...

30+lbs for the T3 (25 lbs for the S900), 33 lbs for the KX8... (plus extra tiers for the stand) Starts to make my G70 at 45 lbs somewhat of a featherweight!

I agree that it's all compromise trying to use just the one action for everything, but it sure saves a bunch of setup and teardown at a gig. At the studio I just MIDI the K200X into the G70 if I want the ultimate 88 wood sensation... or use the Steinway!

I think we need some kind of better way of describing weight of action, because to even think about an NP-30 in the same region as the G70 action is not even close. There's to my mind 'un'weighted, like NP-30, S900, and then 'slightly' weighted, like T3, PA2Xpro and most quality 61's, then there's 'semi' weighted like the G70, K2500, then there's the 'fully' weighted things like RD700, KX8. Mo8 K2500X, etc..

And that doesn't even take into account waterfall actions!

I'm afraid I tried the NP-30, and without a moment's hesitation I would take the G70's action over that..! The NP-30 was FURTHER away from a real piano that my G70, and that's not saying much But to haul around another 33 lbs just to get a bit closer than the G70 for piano sounds alone? Sorry, but not going to happen!

Hi Diki,

I don't usually carry both keyboards at the same time. although carrying both is a better balance than carrying one 45lb(+road case)instrument.

The KX8 slips into a lightweight gig bag, as does the S900, and I use two lightweight, but double braced, stands.

Everything...two stands, both keyboards, nice comfy bench, two MS60 speakers(and stands) all fit in my Honda Accord sedan and I still have room for a passenger.

It's not at all difficult to move both, and having the advantage of 88 weighted graded hammer action is truly worth any extra effort.

I've lifted a G70 in a road case...my buddy used to have one...it's very heavy and awkward...plus it still doesn't have weighted keys...I know you don't mind lugging it around, but I know I wouldn't.

I won't compromise what I use for solo piano....some do...but, I only have to please me.

The P85 was even easier to move, but it was on my sample account and it's time was up...the KX8 replaced it...I have to stay current and evaluate new gear...I'm pretty pleased with it so far.

The G70's action feels absolutely nothing like a piano...come on now, we both know that much. ...but for the number of keys, it's pretty much the same as the T3 and Korgs...the keys are a little longer and shaped differently, but they have the same resistance...I've played them, remember...I'm not guessing.


Still...it works fine for your needs, and that's all that's important.


Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-01-2009).]

Damn it...The KX 8 won't fit in my Body Glove bag. Misses by about 45mm length wise.

The G70 at 1295 just fits.

I was just about to place an order for one, and at the last minute thought I'd better check the specs.

Still might get it though and get a new bag/case...

Ian what brand bag do you have with yours? (at least then I know it will fit)

Thanks

Dennis

Dennis,

I have a soft case for the KX8 that was custom made by a local man who does work for my Yamaha rep...many times I get an instrument that is so new that a case is not available for it.

I usually order my cases from a company called Levys...my Tyros3 case is made by them...LEVY EM530DX

http://www.levysleathers.com/2008%20Straps%20And%20Bags%20Catalog/Product%20Catalog.ht ml

The case for my S900 was also custom made as it was one of the first production models and no case was available at the time.

You could try Levys for the KX8...they may be making one for it by now.

Ian





[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-01-2009).]

ian which levys bag fits the S900?

Thanks Ian, I will check them out, but I suspect the shipping costs will make it too expensive.

But thanks for the link.

Dennis

I don't know, Donny...the case I have was custom made...I just gave the guy the dimensions of the S900.

I'm not sure if the bag for the PSR-3000 will fit it...there is a keyboard cases matching list on the Levys' site and the S900 is not on it yet.

Ian

Thanks for the comments on controller keyboards guys. Ian thanks for giving the full range of views in your household.

I have to make up my mind what "touch" to go for hopefully before the prices of these items start to go up too.
I don't want anything too light and "Mickey Mouse". On the other hand I tried a digital piano in a shop the other day (having not touched one or an acoustic for years) and it was like trying to force a good performance through by pressing bricks! I get the impression the P85 might seem that way at least at first. Over here they can be bought for the same price as the KX8, but am I right in saying the latter has a slighter lighter touch requirement?

John

John,

I don't have the P85 here to do a side by side comparison, but I would say they feel very much the same and might even have the same action.

The NP30 didn't suit me at all...it has it's target market, but I ain't among them.

I could get along with 76 weighted hammer action, but the semi-weighted feels totally unnatural for piano

One of my clients, who used to play piano for Glen Campbell, just bought a P85 and he absolutely loves it, especially for the action.

If you don't need controller functions like pitch and mod wheels, the P85 is probably more suitable(and a bit lighter)...plus it can be used as a stand alone piano (it has speakers).

Ian

Ian, just a question if I may on the arp section, which I couldn't really find in the manual...

How many arps can be played at once? OR to put another way.. is it possible to play a drum AND bass arp at the same time?

Thanks
Dennis

Dennis,

Unfortunately, the KX8 was sold to a client yesterday, and I did not check out the arps.

I should be getting another in a few weeks as we (the rep and I)want to use it in the studio next month.

I'll check into your question in the meantime, but I believe it will do four at once...much like the workstations.

Ian

Excellent..Thanks heaps Ian..

I decided the bag size issue was not important, so becasue of
1.your enthusiasm and recommendation for it as a piano controller(also the fact you are a piano player)
2.it only weighs in at 15kgs
3.AND has the weighted action, I have placed my order.

Sorry to get back to you so late, as I just got back from hospital after day-surgery.

Cheers m8,

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

I hope your surgery went well...I had my own bouts with it last year, and hopefully you'll get along in recovery as well as I did.

I miss the KX8 already, although I have a Yamaha CP-300 arriving this afternoon, which also has a great weighted hammer action...but it weighs a lot more than the former having built in speakers probably contributes to a lot of it.

As I said earlier, the KX8's vast controller features were wasted on me as I generally don't even hook my keyboards up to my laptop.

Still, the action was exceptionally nice and the whole instrument has an air of quality about it, in spite of still being quite manageable weight wise...it's also not unwieldy in size, which will be a benefit if you plan on gigging with it.

If I can't get another KX8 in the next few weeks, I'll probably use the CP-300, as it has pitch/mod wheels and I won't have to be moving it alone...it weighs 71 lbs without the case.

I wish I could have tried the KX8 with a Sonic Cell...I couldn't locate one, but I will be looking forward to your assessment of the combination.

Ian

Hi Ian,
Yes surgery was okay. Just exploratory to check on a few anomalies, no results yet. Thanks for your kind thoughts .

Yes I will post how it goes as a combo when I get it going. I have a feeling it will work well. Might even to dig out the old OMB program and load it up too.

Cheers
Dennis

Best to you, Dennis... I hope it all goes well.

Thanks Diki.

We are not expecting anything too bad so it should all be well.

Dennis

Hold the phone...Just found out some last minute info on the KX series..and wait til you read this...

You CANNOT transpose incrementally!!! You can octave shift, but no transpose..WOW!! I just read this review by a user... http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMKX8

And another big deal breaker, is the X Factor pack of all the free softsynths etc is only available for USA KX series controllers.

So I have now just cancelled my order.

I don't know what the Yamaha engineers were thinking, leaving out transpose on a controller!!

Dennis

It might seem strange, although if the KX8 is being used with software on a PC, won't that take care of transpose?
If it's being used as a controller for another keyboard, then provided the slave is midi-ed up to receive as "Keyboard" (not on simple channels)the transpose buttons on it can be used - as if you were playing it directly.

John

Yeah John I realise that, but EVERY other controller keyboard I know of, or have used has had transpose as a BASIC function. As does nearly every synth.

That Yamaha did not with this "Master Controller" is a real suprise.

Additionally, the KX8 also has NO after touch, only initial.

So for me, because of the combination of all three factors... a) no transpose b) no after touch c) no suite of the free VST instruments and effects that USA buyers get... it is not a keyboard I would be comfortable in buying.

I'm sure the weighted keybed would have been excellent, but the keybed is not the be all and end all.

Dennis

Put like that Dennis - can see where you're coming from

John

I must agree, Dennis that not having a transpose function would be a deal breaker for me too, even though I never use it when playing solo piano, preferring to master tunes in different keys as part of my practice regime.

For anything else, having incremental transpose is a must, and easy access to it is equally important.

I really appreciate you pointing it out, and my apologies for not discovering the omission sooner, but I was only using the KX8 to play/practice piano...I would have quickly discovered the lack of easy accessible transpose in the studio, much to my chagrin.

Worst of all, I would have felt terrible if you had bought the KX8 on my incomplete review of the instrument and, upon receiving it, found it did not have the features you needed.

Thankfully, you made the discovery and prevented the two of us (and perhaps more) from being disappointed.

Now we can both work on getting a controller that will fulfill our needs...I have a feeling I may go back to the P85.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-06-2009).]

What are the odds of asking Yamaha to rectify this omission? It's all software, after all....

No worries Ian, I am just glad I picked it up is all.

Diki, it may be possible to ask them, but the bigger question would be WHEN and IF they would do such an upgrade.

No, I think I might look elsewhere for a weighted controller.

Dennis