There's altogether WAY too much time and effort here spent on trying to address soundset issues on one keyboard alone. JMO, but I simply don't believe that, if you need a good well rounded sound selection to cover acoustic AND electronic textures, you simply aren't going to find it in any ONE keyboard. Playing out live, if you want to only use one arranger/WS/whatever, is going to involve a fair bit of compromise. Accepting that we ARE compromising is the hard part! We all think that what WE bought is the best possible solution, and in a way it is. But it is a solution to a slightly different problem to everyone else. So we ALL (or most of us!) have the BEST solution. Just not the same

But if you are recording, or playing at a level where the necessity of TOTL performance outweighs the inconvenience of carting multiple keyboards, you HAVE to use several different keyboards. No one makes ANYTHING that covers it all at the highest level. Sadly, as I have mentioned often, arrangers are the LEAST capable of any keyboard type to integrate with each other. For God knows what reason, no two manufacturers use the same MIDI codes to talk to each other, so we are left with HAVING to compromise, sometimes severely.

If they did, I would definitely gig with at least two, and maybe three arrangers and weight be damned. I would sound like a band! Right now, part of my palette sounds great, some not so great. As sadly, if we could just accept it, do we all...

I honestly believe the most revolutionary thing we could ask for on an arranger is not loops, arps, Guitar Modes, audio loops or anything like that. It would simply be a standardized set of MIDI codes so that one arranger could control another from a different manufacturer. Then let us shore up the holes in our soundsets with other arrangers with stronger sounds (but holes of their own)....

I think the skilled musicians who belong to this board are a wonderful resource for those of us that are much further behind on the learning curve (like moi!).

Hearing your experiences, suggestions, recommendations, and overall thoughts is invaluable to those of us who haven't touched a lot of different boards or other instruments.

So my suggestion is to ignore the flames, and continue to share for the benefit of us who wish to learn and improve.

Like you my fingers are much more suited to keys than stretching great distances on a guitar fretboard. Gibson (and let's avoid the flames here) has yielded to the pressure for corporate profits and is cookie-cutting their Les Paul in the "flavor of the month" and quality has deteriorated greatly in the view of many axemen. They don't sound as pure as their older siblings, and the fit/finish well, it's just not "all that" on every unit. You have to hunt through a stack at music stores to find one that's 'right' for you.

Given that most of us have X amount of time to devote to producing music, one must make some hard choices or lose oneself in a morass of time-consuming technique/practice time.

The purist musician will laud the endless practice times (they call it paying your dues) and that's not wrong if you're 18 or 20, but when you're a senior citizen, one is closer to the end of band practice than the beginning, one must optimize one's free time (IMHO).

Thus I feel I can get better "guitar" out of my Tyros 3 than I can with my semi-arthritic fingers off a bad-action guitar!

So, my motto is whatever floats the boat!

Cheers,
robert

Everything you say is too true! The limiting factor is backbreaking work and the lack of "roadies" to tote those beasty workstations, modules, keyboard amps, mixers, yada yada yada. Given what many gigs pay (or don't pay, to be more accurate), the amount of legwork to drag all that stuff is a primary roadblock, assuming you have the wherewithal to BUY that much equipment. Then you have issues and concerns worrying about theft/damage to that much stuff while it's sitting onstage during breaks or if you're in a rowdy venue where mass quantities of alcohol are being consumed... So for many, the limiting factor is how much 'work' we have to do to get set up for performance gig, paid or not, and whether our ancient bodies are 'up to the task' of dragging the heavier stuff from our homes to our cars to the venue then reversing it all... this is why I don't have a motif module or a motif board. If found out my T3 doesn't easily fit in my vehicle, that's another major concern for another day... stuff happens I guess... or why don't I own a bigger vehicle???

cheers
robert

Robert,

I'm somewhat aware about the the Gibson stuff. I failed to mention that my Les Paul actually started it's life as an Epiphone. It had a very nice Sunburst finish, but I could never get anywhere near the rich tones of the old Les Paul that I remember an old band mate got from his, though I realize mine was an Epiphone. I say it "started life" as an Epiphone because I traded a keyboard controller to a local guitar Guru ( who also happens to be a friend ) for some custom work on it. He did a fabulous job. It still looks pretty much the same, but the sound and response are quite different now. Two of the three guitarists who regularly frequent my very modest little studio to record and / or jam have Gibson LP's ( I'm not certain which models or how old to be exact ) and both seem to like mine better. I tend to agree with them. Bless my friend Floyd for what he did to that guitar.

I remember wishing that we could emulate a guitar flawlessy on a keyboard, and waiting for the day that the technolgy would bring us there. Yet another part of me silently cheers that it hasn't completely gotten to that point yet.

Diki's spot on for me. No one keyboard is the end all for a studio musician. I'll stand by that disclaimer for every board I've ever owned or even played, and the M3 is no exception. I embraced the Vsti technology initially because when they were the flavor of the day I so wanted to own a CS80, OB8, and a Prophet 5 ( amongst others ). Finances dictated otherwise. Today I have many of the major reproductions inside my computer, and while some of them aren't perfect emulations of their hardware cousins, they are more than close enough for me.

I identify with what you say about the feel you get from your Tyros. For those times I want a more complex guitar solo, for example, at my level of guitar play, using Musiclabs Real Strat and a good guitar amp sim is actually going to sound much more authentic than if I tried to play the same piece on an actual Strat. I'm not certain I'm happy about that though.. it just exposes my mediocre guitar playing ability more than anything else. Actually, the T2 is pretty much the equal of Real Strat when it comes down to the articulations. It may not have quite the complexity and flexibility of RS, but for me that part of it is close enough for most guitar solo work. I just prefer the actual tone is a bit better on RS, but that is a very subjective personal preference.

Cheers,

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 02-06-2009).]

AMEN

Tyros 3 although a great arranger was released too early after Tyros2 leaving many T2 users with a bad taste in their mouth after shelling out bucks & then right behind it an upgraded T3 comes along so soon making it difficult to trade, sell, upgrade or rebuy the T3. Yamaha could have waited another year improved the T3 even more & then released it....I'd love to know why the T3 came so soon unless they needed to sell off old Tyros parts with a rehash model...so they can move on to the next Arranger project hopefully very soon?

What do you think?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-07-2009).]

Maybe because you, and innumerable others in the year before the T3 came out were going 'when is the new Tyros coming? I can't wait to see what Yamaha come out with next... C'mon Yamaha!, blah, blah, blah! '

Talk about mixed messages!

Diki....I buy, try, dump, or whatever that's how I roll my friend....if it serves me I keep it, make money & move on simple as that ......it's just a tool of the trade nothing more.....
why do I do it?.....because I can my friend ...

Carry on

No problem with that... (I think you said you had learned your lesson, anyway! ). It's just that you can't complain BEFORE it comes out that it is taking too long to get here, and then after it comes out complain that it comes out too soon, without at least realizing that all you are doing is complain... No matter WHAT happens!

Donny, the T3 came out roughly 3 years after the T2 which is basically Yammie's timetable for releasing new high and mid range arrangers. The T2 came out 3 years after the T1 did and many people took the plunge for a T2 because it offered the "new" SA1 voices and there were 42 of them so that was a pretty exciting reason to upgrade from the T1 to the T2. I would have done the upgrade dance too if the T2 (or T3) had 76 keys. But the reason T2 owners (and others) were hesitant on getting a T3, in my opinion, was there was no "significant" reason for doing so. It still only had 61 keys, still no REAL Sampler, the Drums are underwhelming, and it only has a mere "11" SA2 voices with most of them just variations of the same sample(s). So not only is the T3 just a "minor" upgrade from a T2, in some instances the T2 beats the snot out of the T3. Better drums for one. Lower price for another.

>> I wanted to post this other compilation of Fantom G sounds for everyone who may be interested. This is a combination of Synth and Acoustic sounds together in a song format. The sounds included are Lead Synth, Synth Bass, Rock Organ, a Rhodes EP, Distortion Guitar, and an acoustic Drum kit. I included one as a .wav file for audio purists.

The Fantom G has 24bit DAC's which, in my opinion, gives it a nice clean punchy sound. If there's anybody thinking about getting a "true" Workstation keyboard you may want to put the Fantom G on your short list of workstation keyboard purchases. I'm liking my Fantom G7 more and more each day with the possibilities growing exponentially as to what it can do. A person really needs to be willing to dig in and take the time and effort to be able to get the most out of it though. Something that many keyboardists would rather not do of course.

Enjoy!

Arise.mp3

Arise.wav

All the best,
Mike