Birds do it..., Bees do it.., even educated makers of the keys do it

Even Roland answered the call for it back in the day (like 10 years ago)
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb99/articles/rolandeg101558.htm

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-16-2009).]

Are you guys so naive to think Yamaha. Roland & Korg R&D don't know whats going on in the music world....?
WS vs AR is done for a reason...why should they cut off their nose to spite their face....two separate entities = more money it's a simple business strategy.

What happened is Yamaha learned with the original DJX that an affordable modern arranger WOULD cut into the profits of their bigger workstations. It doesn't take a marketing genius to figure out that Yamaha realized the impact the DJX had when they released the DJX II. They knew the DJX line would be dead after the release of the second model.., but still used that one to make a few bucks before letting it die.

Come on now...., if keyboard makers continued to make top arrangers (as they do today), but include a "special section" of styles along with all the traditional ones (much like they do with region specific keyboards out there.., cough cough Roland GW-8) People would FLOCK like flies on crap to these arrangers....

They won't do it because once they start doing it they know darn good and well there's NO WAY the younger crowd would pay the prices arranger players have been getting jacked on for years.

Yamaha Motif XS8 (88 freakin graded hammer action keys... top end workstation built like a horse) Cost: $3,199

Yamaha Motif XS6 (same thing as the Motif XS8, built for the pro market, but with a 61 note keybed comparable to the Tyros line) Cost:$2,199

Yamaha Tyros 3 (plastic body, built for the home player, 61 keys, no where near the editing power of the workstation) Cost: $3,899

Well...., they just simply wouldn't be able to charge those prices anymore now would they if John and Jane 20'something became a huge part of the buying market.


[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-16-2009).]

Squeak dont you get it?.....it doesn't matter many people don't even know what an arranger Kb is...all they see is keys....it could be a Casio $199.00 unit or it could be a Nord synth in their eyes "Oh that's nice my grandson has one like that" Yea right!.....the prices they charge for these units are what the market dictates whether you think it's worth it or not they are selling like crazy. It's all about making money.

Diki,

You would be amazed at the number of 25 to 35 year olds that I perform for, and they NEVER ask for hip-hop or rap. However, they love it when I do Hotel California, and I play it using a Yamaha ARRANGER KEYBOARD. They love what they hear, they come back for more and they bring their friends. As for the top 20, well, lets see how many of those songs are even in the top 50 a year from now. Ten years from now no one will remember the names of those performing today's top 20. Fifty years from now they'll still be playing Cole Porter's arrangements.

Squeak,

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject. As I said on the onset of my post, I'm glad I'm old.

Cheers,

Gary

What he said.

I can count on one hand the number of songs in my playlist that weren't there ten, even twenty years ago.



[This message has been edited by Seamaster (edited 01-16-2009).]

Come on guys.. Step outside your normal playing venue..., and step into a modern club that plays all forms of electronia. Perhaps you aren't seeing the 20 somethings requesting these songs simply because YOU'RE NOT EVEN PLAYING THE RIGHT VENUE.

It's funny how you guys make your statements as if you're "in touch" with that group and you don't even play those venues. You make your statements based on the current venues you're playing now. Perhaps you'd get the picture better if you stepped into a modern "Hip" club that caters to these styles of music. Take your PSR's and other arrangers into these venues and do your regular playlists. Let's see how fast the floor either clears or packs.

If you stepped into one of these venues you'd find the age ranging from 21 all the way up into the 50's. If you attempted to play these venues you'd quickly realize how "incapable" your arrangers really are at "rocking the house" for these styles of music.

These guys aren't all DJ's at these clubs either. I've been to quite a few in my lifetime and you'll often find the DJ is also a musician..., and in many cases will even have a keyboard with their other gear. It's not all turntables, and virtual CD scratching either.

I've also been at way too many events to count where the musician had to stick to a modern playlist..., and stil to date no arranger will cut it.



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-16-2009).]

"Chops" are overrated at OMB Beach bars, Dance clubs, and the like. There are OMBs playing for a living all over the country without chops. Arrangers do make it easier. Put someone with just a piano out there and see how far his/here "chops" take them.

If one plays for pay classical ,chops are important, If one plays for pay, Oscar Peterson and other fast jazz, chops are important, If one plays a baby Grand in Nordstrums at the Mall chops are "somewhat" inomrtant.

HOWEVER If is playing Margaritaville, Sweet Caroline, How Sweet it Is, or practically any other "boss bound single hit" song on a typical playlist for a bar or dance, Vocals are far more important than Chops. There are many self taught players making a living in music. Especially playing songs made famous written by other self taught musicians!!!

Unless you play like Keith Emerson with a lot of keyboard calisthenics like is popular with contemporary female singers, The wow factor is pretty much not there. Regualar folks want to hear familiar songs by mediocre (thank goodness for many who never took piano lessons since 4 years of age) hit makers.

People are more impressed with your set list then technical prowess in the regular OMB bar and club scene. At Carnegie Hall maybe the expectations are higher...but then again as any one has the White " Chicagp Live at Carnegie Hall" CD even there one does not have to be all that.

Doesn't take chops to loops create hip hop . Just a sequencer and an imagination. Had a guy in the store two days ago who is genuinely surprised people are paying him $100- $200 for a CD of loops he creates in a Roland Fantom. Takes him a couple hours.

"Chops" are usually overrated by those who don't have them.

Ian

Sure, Gary, you can play the Eagles, James Taylor and many of the classics from the 70's to the kids and they will like it (I do exactly the same thing)... but if you played some Ben Harper, or Jack Johnson, John Mayer, John Legend, Coldplay, (the list goes on) to them, they would love you at least as much, and probably more....

Plenty of contemporary music that doesn't stray as far as rap and hiphop that the kids like... but it's STILL difficult to find styles that nail that modern flava. But it's a snap on a WS... It's only the CONTENT, there's little missing in a modern arranger's OS to make this stuff. It's just the styles...

It's ALWAYS about the styles...