Gary, I think that arrangers are a bargain compared to legacy arrangers, but when you compare them to the WS's produced by the SAME manufacturer, despite FAR better capabilities (multitrack audio recorders, samplers, cool arpeggiators, extensive editing capabilities, chord recognition, lot's of knobs, pads and other physical controllers like Kaos Pads, pitch strips, drum pads, etc.) and construction values at a professional level, you can get a TOTL 88 WS for $500 less than a TOTL 61 arranger.

That's getting soaked, whichever way you look at it...

And a TOTL 61 WS for $1600 LESS than the 61 arranger

That's some SERIOUS jack, IMO...

Yep, I'm inclined to agree with you there, Gary.

Nothing, in my opinion, is so immediately gratifying as an arranger in being able to create music.

I'm comfortably lazy, and being able to do a whole evening of music by just picking a style and playing left hand chords and Right hand melody is one of my most favorite (and lucrative) pastimes.

If being able to create music so easily costs a bit more than a workstation, I'm not going to complain one tiny bit.

No wonder workstations are cheaper...you actually have to "work" to make a song, so you should be at least compensated for your efforts.

I've made oodles of money with Yamaha PSR arranger keyboards and had a wonderful time doing so...it wasn't work at all, except perhaps for moving the equipment, and having a light and powerful arranger like the PSR made even that task a very easy one.

I've never considered playing music "work"...I guess that's why it's called "playing" ...it has been a passionate interest and hobby that became a great source of income and the ticket to an interesting social life.

Ian

It all depends on the music you are trying to make, Ian. We both know how easy it is to make legacy musics on arrangers. It's what the content is designed for...

But try to make something remotely contemporary, and suddenly you find it is the WS that makes making this much easier. No offense, but studio pros are NOT stupid. They use whatever does the job the best. You don't see pro studios with arrangers in them. But they ALL got WS's. OTOH, they don't spend a lot of time making bossas, rhumbas and cocktail jazz music They make the stuff you hear on the radio tomorrow.

Try using an arranger to play any song off the charts from last year... That's a pretty tall order (if you want to get 'close enough'). But a WS? No problem!

No... we both know the reason we get soaked on arranger prices is basically economics. WS's outsell arrangers what? 100 to 1? 500 to 1? You might know these figures. Economy of scale, on the one hand. And then the demographic... You sell arrangers to generally an older, wealthier customer (or cheap ones to his kids and grandkids!)/ And you charge what the market can bear (manufacturers and dealers are not charities! They are in it for the profit ).

On the whole, we arranger users will STILL buy these things, even when we KNOW we are being charged a LOT more than the kids and their WS's. They won't

You are not paying for ease of use. You are paying for the fact that few get sold, comparatively

I understand Diki...actually my comment "No wonder workstations are cheaper...you actually have to "work" to make a song, so you should be at least compensated for your efforts" was extremely tongue-in-cheek.

I find arrangers are perfect for studio work when I want a quick demo, or to lay down a rough accompaniment to a song.

You probably use them the same way.

A friend of mine and I do work for a song writer who does "filler tunes" for Nashville artists...we mostly use "country" styles that I have modified/assembled and mainly keep them pretty simple, as these tunes, when submitted, have to be uncluttered enough to showcase the meat of the tune.

If we were using a workstation, it would would take longer, and the results would be no better....the mega voices in the S900 save a lot of time and all I need is the basic chord progression to lay down a quick track of bass, drums and some simple chord strumming parts...my friend is an awesome guitarist and adds some simple but effective candy and I might add a string or organ pad, but the arranger lets us work quickly and painlessly.

Having the registration memory is wicked for doing time signature changes, and even transpositions...plus, I know the instrument very well.

We can do quite a few tunes in an afternoon, and the guy we work with is a prolific writer, so it lets us keep the cost of studio time to a minimum and production and profit to a maximum.

It just happens to be the perfect tool for the job...and, the lazy part of me just loves it.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-10-2009).]

I'm completely with you on that, Ian... Only problem starts when I get clients that do music less 'boilerplate' than country or legacy rock styles. Then it's a bloody nightmare, watching them roll their eyes when I try different arranger styles on the tune!

That's when I reach for the Triton, and the StylusRMX loops, and the BFD.

The day they make an arranger that sounds like THOSE will be the day the arranger industry revives