no, really, this is the name of the new "interactive arranger" from roland!
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=985&ParentId=18

Hmmmmmm. Looks like it's merely a GW-8 with speakers to me (minus the patch modify knobs). I wouldn't be surprised to see Roland smack a $900-$1000 price tag on this thing.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-15-2009).]

you're right.
also, it lacks the favorite tone.

speakers might be a selling point though.

If it's essentially a GW-8.., I thinks it's funny really. The GW-8's an arranger, Rolande has it listed under the synth section. They then appear to make a "lighter feature" model with speakers and put that in the home section.....

Any Prelude demos yet?

does it have a lyric reader unlike the GW8?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-15-2009).]

Haven't you heard? If it has tone modify knobs on it, it CAN'T be an arranger! Arrangers are for fuddy-duddies and your grandparents for making that old rock and roll and soul music!

Only seriously COOL keyboards have knobs that alter the filter on a voice

You mean like the PSR-E413...

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%25253D5014661%252526CTID%25253D205100,00.html

Which, AFAIK, no-one here actually uses...

I rest my case!

Remember, fuddy-duddies CAN'T use the knobs... they are already playing with both hands Only someone that thinks that playing ONE part with one hand while he twists knobs with his other is all he needs to do has a use for this, surely?

I can't see how you could use this if you are actually playing an arranger (in arranger mode). OTOH, if you use SMF's or mp3's, it could be useful. But we ALL know that using SMF's or mp3's is not REALLY playing an arranger, don't we?

Nice catch Ian

So diki what R U tryin to say here?

That little old E413 is an incredibly useful, and quite inexpensive, studio tool...the arps are very useful, and can be filtered etc, not to mention the rather fat sound you can wring out of it,...the filter even self oscilates...

The organ sounds are wild when filtered, and the strings and brass are very cool.

I play a Jupiter 8 and I was very impressed at the sound of the E413's filter.

The styles are alright, but it sure is a hoot to use the filter and arps...the thing sounds GOOD real GOOD...quick and easy.

To get back on topic...the new Roland looks like a winner...they are targeting the "home entertainment" market with the Prelude, and I think it will do well.

Ian

I guess just trying (and succeeding!) at getting a rise out of y'all...

I hate to be proved right about this, but I've been saying for a while that the TOTL über-expensive arranger is getting to be like the 'home organ'... a dying breed, slowly heading towards extinction, and that it would serve Roland best to concentrate on the low-end, 'home' market. The Prelude looks like the perfect product for the times...

Let's face it, were it not for the huge sales of low end PSR's and even cheaper series arrangers that Yamaha make, how long could THEIR arranger division survive on the sales of S900's and T3's ALONE...?

They may not be as glamorous as a T3, but they, and not the TOTL arrangers, are what is keeping Yamaha afloat. Perhaps Roland are starting to recognize this. Trying to survive on G-series and E-series arrangers will not help Roland survive. But a very good low end arranger, with speakers and all the karaoke sh*t that the kids like WILL...

Just what I need a Yamaha 32 voice polyphony arranger...

Certainly not what you need Fran, but it is inexpensive, a lot of fun, and a real inspiration to getting sounds that defy description.

Much more of a hoot to play than you might imagine. Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed.

Ian

Boy, you've got a vivid imagination Ian.



chas

Thanks Chas...I owe it all to my parents, especially my mother and father.

Dammit! All along it's been US that are obsolete, not arrangers. I wanna upgrade to three hands!

I've GOT three hands...

Trouble is, I have to hold my drink with one of them

I tried the E403 which is essentially the same but one generation older.

The amplified sound is not great. I compared it with PSR3000 and you can clearly see the amplified sound is terrible.

Ian: did you notice that ? maybe you got the new E-413 that fixes the problem

Ian just sees the Yamaha logo, and that's good enough for HIM...

I played the E403 and found it very similar to the 413...but, sound is subjective.

I really liked the amplified sound, and I especially liked the filter...the 3K has a "purer" sound, no doubt, but I was very pleased with the E403 and E413...it could depend on what you played it through as I used stereo (two Yamaha MS60s powered monitors).

As arrangers they are not the most exciting instruments...but I was more interested in the synth controls and arps, which are very well done considering the price.

Ian

You bet your bippy it is.

I hope you are referring to the Portables because the Clavinovas are selling far more then upright and many grand acoustics and those keyboards and the Workstation realm thre are no significant issues .

So..., is this the replacement for the E-09 or is Roland going to run both models? I wonder why they named it the PRELUDE. Perhaps it's a peek at what's to come for their arranger line. Anyone get a price on this puppy yet?

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-16-2009).]

Indeed and yet of all the E series Keyboards we sell the 213 and 313 out sell the $300 413 3-1. At that price people want not only cheap but simply cheap.....It look's far more daunting then the rest.

We had a stack of them at Yamaha" special" pricing becasue they had no 313 stock left...before the Holidays!!



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 01-16-2009).]

Anyone know street price yet?

The PSR-E413/403 have to be demoed to a customer to show the value.

Not everyone wants to be able to change filter cutoff, but I sold quite a few E-413s to mostly younger clients, and several to former analog synth owners who thought the knobs were cool and useful like I did.

Ian

Well I gotta hand it to Roland on this new Prelude. They really hit home with this one. The poly is 128, same screen from the GW-8, updated sounds (wouldn't be too surprised if it shares most of it's sound set with the GW-8.., meaning Fantom/SonicCell based sounds), USB player features, MIDI JACKS and USB, ext input, and under 18lbs with the speakers.

My big question is what's it gonna cost. The GW-8 is $849 smackers.., and this looks to be a stripped down version of that in a redesigned E-09 shell. I don't see Roland selling it under $700..., and seeing it priced close to the PSR-S550 is probably where it's going to be at.

Oh c'mon, squeak...

We ALL know that branding something an 'arranger' rather than a 'Workstation' allows the companies to immediately ADD 10-25% to the cost of it, AND they can still drop functions from the WS branded version of the same thing!

You are about to find out what adding a 20W total speaker system to a stripped down GW-8 adds to the price!

i am very curious myself how will be the price, lower or higher? i tend to believe will be about 50$ higher...

You might be right guys... I'm wondering if it's to replace the E-09.., which you have to admit was reasonably priced (especially for Roland).

I'd be surprised if it costs more than the GW-8 though. If it does.., well just fill in the blanks here ______ing insane!

I predict $999.99 - $1199.00 street price.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-16-2009).]

Well.., I'll be optimistic and estimate it hitting the street at $750-$800

No Way

What is disappointing is the absence of a new TOTL arranger to replace the aging E-80/G70...and which would showcase upcoming new arranger technology, as well as generate excitement for the fanboys(as well as inspire more confidence that Roland plans on staying fully in the game).

Yamaha fans have a good idea what's going to be on the next S-series, as the T3 technology and features will no doubt trickle down to the mid-range instruments, and ultimately down to the entry level.

The Prelude is repackaged technology...nothing really new or exciting...no new voice technology or style tricks...E-80 and G-70, although still very good arrangers, are falling behind Korg and Yamaha's latest offerings.

Let's hope Donny's prediction of a G90 is true...certainly it is sorely needed to boost Roland's image and let it return to standing shoulder to shoulder with Yamaha and Korg.

I also hope the Prelude is marketed with more savvy than the E-series and the G70...IMO Roland can't afford to make another blunder...this market segment is dominated by Casio and Yamaha, so they best do it right if they want a share of the pie.

Ian

Donny.., the reason I estimate that price is because this looks to be replacing Roland's current low end arranger the E-09. The E-09 hit the street at reasonable price. So (I know I'll get heat for this), but "assuming" this model is possibly replacing the E-09 I would then estimate the price to be less than the GW-8.

Ian: I owned BOTH the E313 and E403. E313 is cheaper than E403(synth knobs) but the amplified sound is much better than E403.

E403 amplified sound is muffled somehow. But the cheaper E313 sounds clear but of course is a lesser keyboard with less features.

If E403 or the newer E413 has a clean sound then it is a very good keyboard. Those knobs are very useful in live situation.

Roland doesn't need another Arranger. The Fantom G series is the MAC of keyboards. IF one cannot construct and arrangement on that GUI......

Saying the Fantom G is the equivalent of an arranger is like saying that George Bush was the equivalent of a President.

Ian

Careful, Ian... Don't bait Froggy

It must be those cheap Canadian prescription meds kicking in...

They can't be working too well...I actually wasted my time responding to Froggy's nonsense.

How about sending me some of yours?



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-16-2009).]

'Fraid we can't afford them down here... something to do with the Government not allowing our health care system to actually NEGOTIATE with the drug companies (unlike Canada) about their prices. Way to represent US! But anything that helps out Lilly's bottom line MUST be good, surely?

Boy, I can't wait for the OMB industry to get a lobby that powerful. Then I can charge $10 grand for a bar gig!

Too late.... You opened a can of worms now eat them.......

IN our case that is true! Bush hating is not in our home.!

Of course it depends on one's perspective . If you signed your your future income and life away on way way over valued homes and 72 month car loans and instant gratification on the dotted line. Yeah Bush sucked for you.Banks and government enabled people to do that. But they did not FORCE people to sign zee papers,

However We are far far better off then we were 8 years ago. Thanks to the LOOSE banking regulations Barney Frank backed with Ginny and Freddy in the housing market causing a run on inventory and sky rocketing prices .We SOLD in 6 hours to bidders in Las Vegas, while our neighbors borrowed on their precious equity, spending on cars and other depreciating crap like pools for their homes. Of course we had to move to another State to live in an APT while the market cooled then built a home we designed and then paid for it. Thank You GW Bush!

We were scared out of the market after the 1987 crash kept saving and missed the tech bubble but saved instead and decided to get back in equities after 9-11 at fire sale prices. But the really smart move (learned from the bitter 70's under Carter) was SELLING all equity positions in June 08 upon OBAMAs winning of the Democratic nomination. Some friends of mine lost their retirement on paper. They had "high Hopes for Change" Now much of their their "change" has vanished.

Bush administration been very good to me. But as a Conservative I am used to making lemonade out of lemons, Seeing opportunity in other's doom and greed and benefiting from it rather than waiting for Government to it for me. We actually PAY for medical insurance and have great care. What a concept.

But have no fear your Savior has arrived and all will be well for everyone, especially the animals, Flowers, and trees.

NO WE don't hate Bush but then again we have never been one to follow the crowd and accept the verdict of court of public opinion



We are not participating in the recession and all the gloom and doom Obama is predicting. A Pessimistic fear mongering leader is what the world wants from America. Well they have it. Now we will be loved ..by France.Oh Boy! Yippie! What a lofty goal and achievement! Pass the pipe. You will find out soon enough Obama is not what he represented. Some Democrats are already whining, They haven't seen anything yet. Obama is a sock puppet.....Six months from now Jessie jackson Al Sharpton will be marching on Washington with angry whites and blacks who are losing their homes. Homes they would have never had if the time tested 20% DOWN rule had STAYED in place......and I would still be making house payments in Las Vegas and still be on the road singing for my supper........No I have no issue with BUSH!!

And I Still believe the Fantom has such a nice and easy GUI, it can be used as an arranger with little effort and some MIDI files. I know that may challenge some who are used to Yamaha arrangers. But it is a pretty GUI to learn.


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 01-16-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 01-16-2009).]

There are a few border states that CAN and already DO negotiate with Canadian Drug companies including Tennessee which is not close to Canada. It can be done . Write your legislators, unless you live in a state where there where Pharmaceutical Companies reside.

I encourage anyone interested to watch a program on PBS called The Ascent of Money.

Just in case, you know, you get the mistaken idea that the collapse is all due to some sub-prime loans

It goes a LOT further than that...
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/ascentofmoney/

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 01-16-2009).]

Time is fun when you're having flies, Froggy.

I own my home, musical equipment, car, and my financial future is looked after.

I don't discuss politics...talking about politics is like talking about football...you have to be smart enough to understand the game, and dumb enough to think it's important.

Ian

You brought it up....However I am glad to learn EVERYONE is not living in the Gloom and Doom some would have us believe its 1929 (or 1979) all over again.....

I'm dumb enough to think Politics IS important. Make no mistake Politics determine the direction of the markets which are a leading indicator of things to come....not things past. IF the market is dropping its a result of people believing the worst for the future......When markets rise its people believing better times are ahead.....So far the latter has been evident. I am one of the few who is surprised by this??? This is painfully and joyfully evident all though out history. Those who use Politics as a crystal ball will make good on thier investment choices.

Loosen bank regulations...more people buy homes...more people buy homes,,less homes available...prices go up...as prices go up MORe people try to get in to keep from being shut out....more creative loans....more homes bought...home prices ride even more.....All because of political moves in 1997!! and the backing of loans by the government previously only available to Veterns on DOWN PAYMENTS Only!!! Politics.

The single largest two day drop in the DOW occurred AFTER Obama was officially elected!!! So much for good times and change to come......Where's all the confidence in Obama's choices and cabinet? Certainly the market should react positively!

It reacted in hours to Steve Jobs deciding not showing up at MAC World!!! It's all about Obama now. Confidence good.... and the market goes up. Bankrupting the country with bridge builders and pot hole fillers while his Choosing a Treasury Secretary who did not pay taxes due? Calling it an "innocent mistake" Sounds like they are talking about Palin's daughter...although the mistake was NOT to abort the child in that case I suppose.

On the bright side Best Buy should be a good buy now that Circuit City is finished.

History is full of evidence of political protectionism. Higher tariffs and trade barriers against free trade, as exampled by the Hawley- Smoot Tariff Act of 1930, which helped bring on the Depression and the World War that followed. I hope those crying for tariffs and against free trade either have a long memory or can read a book.

Don't discount politics when making important long term financial decisions. Ever. Markets are and always have been leading indicators of the economy to come. Confidence drives markets. Obama show little confidence last week....Just Doom and Gloom...UNLESS we do as he says and support his trillion dollar "stimulus plan" As can be seen the markets no likey....

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 01-16-2009).]

But not smart enough to realize how little I care.

Bush approval rating 22%. And they're all nutters.

To get back on topic, prelude .
I can't wait for theFUGUE.

Hey...good one...you caught it too.

Sequential Circuits had a synthesizer called the Prelude (sort of an orchestral type...strings, brass, pipe organ etc)in 1982, AND, even earlier in 1979, it made one called the Fugue (actually it was designed by Sequential, and built by Siel and is really a Siel Cruise, in disguise.)

Another little tidbit...

In 1987, Roland bought up Siel S.p.A, based in Italy, which had been producing synthesizers and organs. They took over Siels's operations, renamed the company as Roland Europe S.p.A. in 1988, and released a new series of products for the European market, including the E-10 and E-20 Intelligent Synthesizers.

So...you may be right about a future Roland "Fugue" arranger, although Sequential Circuits was eventually picked up by Yamaha, who used the former's vector synth technology to make the SY-22/35 and then passed it on to Korg who made the Wavestation.

Good catch.

Ian

Circuit city is going out of business and closing all of its stores.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6216320.html

BBY up 8% but they have far more competition than CC. WALMART,Costco...Amazon...on and on.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 01-17-2009).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kingfrog:
[B] BBY up 8% and will go up even more over the next few years,,,,, See how easy it is to find value in Gloom and Doom? OF course the hand in the Obama sock puppet earned 2 Billion last year in hedge fund profits. GOOD for Mr Sorros. Good for anyone who can come from nothing and achieve what he has.

In an interview with The Washington Post on November 11, 2003,] Soros said removing President George W. Bush from office was the "central focus of my life" and "a matter of life and death." He said he would sacrifice his entire fortune to defeat President Bush, "if someone guaranteed it," Soros donated $23,581,000 to various 527 Groups dedicated to defeating President Bush. Despite Soros' efforts, Bush was reelected to a second term as president in U.S. presidential election, 2004. Money doesn't buy everything!! Even a LOT of it.


CONFIDENCE is the key.....Obama kills confidence with Gloom and Doom and causes People to get scared which then causes people to give up more control to the Government (to make everything peachy).

It's a GOOD thing to have optimism without irrational exuberance. It's a bad thing to give up financial control to Government. Witness any Government controlled venture.

Imagine what a Government made arranger keyboard would be like? I wouldn't be buying one..

The same Government who "redlined" Detroit? Then opened the floodgates for sub prime loans which proved to be a decision that helped create the mess many are in today.
And which helped Soros collect 2 billion last year and get a young lawyer who sued banks on behalf of an organization named ACORN to "entice" more sub prime loans be made, a young Harvard grad aptly named Barack Hussein Obama. The "official" economic meltdown happened in the nick of time for Soros (THE Hedge fund Short selling KING), at a time when Mc Cain was actually LEADING Obama!! How convenient.


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 01-17-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 01-17-2009).]

Then why comment in the first place? your "lack of caring statement" was rendered false far before your admission....ya think?

No, I don't think so...I just wanted to make sure you understood my position.

As for you, Froggy...

It's not that easy being green
Having to spend each day the color of the leaves
When you think it could be nicer being red, or yellow or gold
Or something much more colorful like that

It's not easy being green
It seems you blend in with so many other ordinary things
And people tend to pass you over 'cause you're
Not standing out like flashy sparkles in the water
Or stars in the sky.

I can only imagine it must have been rough as a tadpole...and how you hoped someday you'd be toadly awesome...and how you eventually learned that being called "pond scum" is actually a term of endearment.

You can also take heart that being "green" in these times, is now a positive attribute.

I wish you all the best in your recovery.






[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-18-2009).]

i am very curious what the price will be for prelude...

would this be a refference?
i certainly hope not!
http://www.nevadamusic.co.uk/Keyboards_Pianos/Synths/sc1643/p4444.aspx http://www.nevadamusic.co.uk/Keyboards_Pianos/Synths/sc1643/p7508.aspx

if true, prelude is way more expensive than E09. it is to be expected, but the difference is huge.

LE: i suppose there is a mistake, or a first-time price policy, because GW8 is 559 pounds... http://www.nevadamusic.co.uk/Keyboards_Pianos/Synths/sc1643/p7171.aspx

[This message has been edited by adimatis (edited 01-19-2009).]

Check this out...

http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/018972.html

That price is a rip off. They drop patch modify.., essentially used the shell of their current line for the speaker assembly then charge $150 more for this thing. I till say save yourself the money and buy the GW-8. This thing ain't worth no $1,000 I normally support Roland but in this case I say BOOOOOOOO ON YOU ROLAND!

Squeak were you going to buy a Prelude?

Nope...., I was just hoping that Roland would continue with the affordable price on their lower line like the E-09. Using speaker housings and base shells of their existing keyboards and then dropping the patch modify hardly justifies a price jump of $150. Just goes to show how arranger makers still go for the pockets of the home players.

$150 is nothing today....remember there is R&D, ,design, labor, etc etc Squeak you should be here at the jam to see the now AUDYA demonstrated by Prince AJ. havin a great time its arranger heaven.

well, i was expecting a higher price than GW8, even though it is hard to justify for it.
that being said, it's more obvious now that GW8 is a better deal, and those used to work with instruments with no speakers will surely prefer it anyway; those who are looking for an arranger, with speakers will just have to pay for that.

man, those speakers must be something really good!!

For the price difference, you can get a Logitech or the like sound system that will blow the crappy built-in speakers away.

Has the 'Favorites' feature got dropped?

Me, I'm kinda temped by the new AX strap on keyboard. Looks like a Sonic Cell engine, so easily good enough for gigging, and onboard sound makes making a wireless version a snap compared to transmitting MIDI...