Well...that makes the middle of the Roland G70 inconsistent now, doesn't it?

That was all I was trying to say from the beginning.

Thank you, Squeak.

Ian

I never said it didn't have some inconsistency to it... However, if the inconsistency IS there it DOES NOT stand out to me becaues if it is present..., to me I'm hearing a great "NATURAL SOUNDING" piano........

Perhaps you've grown soooooo used to Yamaha's method of cheating that you no longer prefer the sound of a REAL piano You Ian..., someone who proclaims to be all about the acoustic piano.., I find shocking that you don't bitch and complain more about Yamaha's method of cheating so much. There's such a thing as a patch sounding TOOOO perfect thus resulting in a less natural sounding sample...... Now what's that saying here... oh..., "one two cha cha cha"...

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-29-2009).]

"Some" inconsistency is correct, and again, you have acknowledged that it is there.

Were not talking "how much"...just that there "is".

[I just read your edit...]

If you want to spin off and discuss Yamaha's alleged "cheating" so be it, but my interest is in dispelling the "perfection" myth of the G70's piano.

One thing at a time please.

Ian




[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-29-2009).]

Seriously though Ian..., all joking aside and no smart ass remarks..., but the way you approach this Roland issue with the piano is like Roland did something wrong..., or make it seam that if the inconsistency is there that Roland perhaps didn't do a good job at sampling the piano.

It's no disrespect to you Ian, but I would think that maybe you have grown so used to the way Yamaha has digitally stretched their piano samples (thus taking out the "natural" inconsistency found in real acoustic pianos)..., that when you hear a piano sample that includes this (to you) it may not sound right as you've grown so used to the digital sampled version from Yamaha.

I've heard amazing VST piano samples that are FULL of inconsistency.... That inconsistency along with other factors in the VST sample process is what makes the thing sound so..., ACOUSTIC... and NATURAL.

Like I said though Ian.., if the incosistency is there... for me it doesn't stand out (as much as it does to you) because that (to me) is a more REAL and NATURAL sounding piano patch because it simply is what the real instruments does. It's not like Roland goes out of their way to intentionally make a sample sound "inconsistent".

Interesting the same thing can be said about your position of "perfection" as it relates to Yamaha Ian. Why is it every time someone praises Yamaha and hints at perfection you're all game, but the moment something Roland related is associated with "perfection"..., you do what you can to point out it's imperfections????

Roland's not perfect..., I like their gear, but don't think twice about saying something of theirs just sucks balls. I like Roland, but feel their orchestral stuff isn't all that great.., which is why I use my YAMAHA for music that requires good orchestral instruments. As much as I love Roland..., I'll be one of the first to say they're FAAARRRRRRRRR from perfection.

Yes...., EVERYONE cheats on the samples. It's not just Yamaha. Some however cheat a little mroe than others. You ever think that the reason we so often hear Yamaha's piano samples being described with adjectives like "lifeless, brittle, and thin" is because perhaps they've cheated so much that it results in a piano that sounds "TOOOOO PERFECT".., thus sounding less realistic....



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-29-2009).]

Then why is the inconsistency only in the middle, if they were trying for realism, wouldn't it encompass the whole keyboard?.

It doesn't.

And no, I have already said I am not picking on Roland and I am not saying they are wrong.

It's a fine piano sound...the middle is inconsistent, but it obviously works for several of the owners who seem quite content with it.

Neither it or the Yamaha arranger pianos are even close to the sound of a real acoustic...that should be blatantly obvious to anyone who has played the real thing.

Both sounds are workable enough in an arranger context, but as far as stand alone solo instruments...not really.

But that's another topic altogether.

Ian

BUT..., Ian.., take this into consideration. This is YOUR ears..., YOU may think that section sounds inconsistent, and they person behind you just might say the register lower sounds MORE inconsistent.., and that the middle register sounds NATURAL.

I'm all for keeping those natural side effects of an acoustic instrument in the sampled version. I think the patch sounds less realistic without them... Again you prefer the Yamaha piano.., and that's fine for YOUR ears. Some of us prefer to hear this "inconsistency" (if present) because it lends to a more natural sounding patch. For me Yamaha strips too much of that away and focuses more on the "cleanest" sample possibly..., which again could possibly be why we often hear other brands sound more LIVE than Yamaha. It's not just with their piano samples..., but their drums are even stripped of natural naunces that occur from an acoustic kit..., and often sounds like they completely took apart the ENTIRE acoustic kit and sampled each part of it by itself (rather than sample the kit as a whole to capture the natural nuances produced by the real kit)

I've got both Roland and Yamaha in my set up. I go to both for what I need. I don't even touch my Roland's anymore for orchestral or score music. My Yamaha's the first go to keyboard for that. When I want to do something a little harder I go for my Roland's....

In the end it's what makes us happy. I'm not buying my boards to make someone else happy...... They sure as hell don't make my wife happy.....

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-29-2009).]

In regards to Yamaha "perfection", the only time I've ever said they were "perfect" was that they were "perfect" for MY needs.

I prefer an arranger piano to be even in the middle, because that's where most of the playing is done whilst in arranger mode...especially if I'm using the piano to play melody.

I still haven't found a great piano for solo playing...the best I've played so far, is the Yamaha CP-300, but at over 70 lbs, it is not portable enough to suit all my needs.

I'm sure the one "perfect" for my needs will come along eventually...I'm in no hurry.

Ian

Ian..., I'm surprised you don't have a Kurzweil. I'd take their piano any day of the week over both Roland and Yamaha, but Kurzweils gear is just so bloody expensive though.

Maybe that new Roland V Piano will eventually show up in a module verson or many of its fetures will trickle down to other Roland gear. I will say that new V Piano is probably going to even give Kurzweils famous piano patches a good run.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 01-29-2009).]