I don't blame my tool. It's been very good to me.



chas

Well it used to, anyway.

chas

EXACTLY..Its not a public bias.....The bar owners could not care less, the patrons could not care less. It's the PLAYERS who don't want to show up on a gig with Speakered keyboards....or pay $3000+ for a 61 or 76 note unweighted keyboard when most of their playing lives have been on RD700s and workstations at far less cost. My wife says she would rather br free to play OVER a track with two hands not worrying if the arranger is going catch the proper chords if she is tad late or all the fongers don't get down quite the same time. She DOES use the Arranger to MAKE the tracks she uses though. For her its freedom not to be tired to an Arranger that depends on correct chord reconition on the spot everytime. ME I would play out in a heartbeat using an Arranger. Im in my opinion considering my playing abilities, an arranger can ADD to the overall sound. Fools them everytime.

Most pros around here are not the left hand chord organ players of the past. They play with a technisque that does not lend it self well to many arrangers chord recognition capailities across the board.

Thats why I believe Yamaha markets them to HOME users, does not make a 76 key Tyros , and sells them out of that division. Some "home users" play some gigs at non-traditional gigs like Lodges and Nursing homes, maybe a wedding if they are a relative....

Clearly a player's bias...Also we sell arrangers to mostly retired people for what its worth.


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 01-29-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 01-29-2009).]

Yes, Kingfrog... I believe all but the self-taught 'home' arranger player has FAR more important things to do with their LH than slavishly play the damn chords all the time...

Doesn't stop me from using an arranger in preference to any other kind of keyboard, though, because in the ONE keyboard, you get all the rest thrown in. Most arrangers play sequences well, some play MP3's, and they have a live interface FAR better than WS's. Yet most of the capabilities (other than arp and loop stuff, which is only good for more contemporary musics).

I have LONG preferred plastic 76's as a size and action choice, because of the need to play both organ and piano from the same keyboard, and had several WS's in this size (still have a couple, actually!).

But a WS is kind of screwed when asked to do something you haven't already programmed in. In fact, you can't even get a drum machine with the kind of flexibility that a TOTL arranger has. The best of them merely link two patterns and maybe two fills. An arranger's drum section can have four patterns, seven fills, four Intros, four endings, breaks, you name it.

In fact, why HASN'T anyone made a drum machine this capable?

To be honest, other than modern beats, an arranger beats a WS hands down even at the things it is SUPPOSED to do. I certainly have never had to explain my use of an arranger in the studio or on 'call' gigs. I simply turn it on, start to play, and watch them smile! Drummer shows up late, no problem. Rhythm section shows up late, no problem. EVERYONE shows up late, no problem...

Can't really say that about a WS....

I've gotta' agree with Diki on this one. No one, in all the years I've been playing, both a guitar and keyboard, has ever come up to me and made a derogatory remark about the instrument, mic, amp, etc..--NO ONE. It just doesn't happen.

The audiences don't give a damned whether you're playing brand A, B, C, or any other brand. It makes absolutely no difference to them, and for the most part, it really doesn't make any difference to me. If it sounds good, then that's just fine. If you don't sound good, well, I guess someone will eventually tell you.

As for the pubs (corner bars), there are probably more of them in Baltimore than anyplace I've been in my life--and believe me I've been to lots of places throughout the world. At one time Baltimore was notorious for it's corner bars and there was literally one on nearly every corner in certain areas of Baltimore. Many have long since went out of business, but some areas, such as Hamden, Highlandtown, and much of East Baltimore still has hundreds of them. Most are quite small, some still have live music on weekends, most serve Italian food, and those still in operation do a thriving business.

Baltimore's Little Italy supports a fair number of OMB entertainers, many of whom play arranger keyboards every night of the week. I performed there for a while, but the pay for a 4 hour job is the same as it was 40 years ago. For the most part, I can make the same amount doing a NH job for one hour, and I don't have to put up with drunks and get home at 2 a.m..

So, we may not have as many arrangers here in the U.S. and they have in the U.K. And, those of us that use them to make a living playing an arranger hope it stays that way.

Cheers,

Gary

No you can't . the shear flexibility of an Arranger "on the fly" beats a pre programmed Workstation. However the problem comes for people who play using both hands across the whole keyboard and expect perfection in the arranger chord recognition.especially when I MIDI an 88 key board to it or on the Clavinova, For some reason the keyboard cannot follow the player the way it should. It simply is not there. I cannot speak to the Roland but I can the Korg and the Yamaha, I have asked numerous players to play any song like they would normally and I set the recognition on full keyboard and a royal mess results.

Not for me because I understand there is a different technique needed to pay an Arranger effectively and with that comes the flexibility to hit breaks and repeat choruses live when the room is live. I think the Arranger is far far better suited to LIVE OMBs then any workstation. I just cannot convince people around here that make their living in small clubs and bars to use one. Not even my own wife.

Don't get me wrong I personally love Arrangers and would not hesitate to use one live. My wife on the other hand finds it difficult to play and get the chord recognition exact where and when she wants it, so she takes the more predictable tracks and 88 keys. But she doesn't use the organ live either just piano. The tracks contain the other parts, Plus she plays the guitar live in some tracks and that would be tought with an arranger without a good foot pedal set up. She wants to KISS,,,,keep it simple Home made tracks and a couple live instruments in a Bose LT1.

Neither have I.

The arranger has given me an edge and allowed me to stand out from piano players that do restaurant gigs.

They have trouble playing an arranger because they can't keep their left hand still and just play chords...I don't have that problem having spent considerable time on the Electone.

I'm glad arranger players are rare in my area...it just means more work for me.

Ian

Lol Dikki, Karaoke is dying too, now everything
is based on MP3, just kids playing MP3s, its very sad.

Don't know if you heard this yet, Kingfrog, but this is me improvising in Pianostyle Mode on the G70...
. http://www.roland-arranger.com/smf/index.php?topic=444.0

Seems to track me fairly decently. I know I can't play COMPLETELY pianistically on an arranger, because with a piano, so much is implied rather than played, but I find I don't have to adjust my playing THAT much...

And then just adjusting to that 'don't play more than two notes at a time and the chord won't change' mode. You'd be amazed at how much you can play with just two notes, if your fingering is clean...

Pianostyle Mode with the OnBass (bass inversion) ON on a Roland is VERY pleasant for a pianist to adjust to, IMO...

Kingfrog,
Are you sure the Korg PA800/PA2XPRO was setup for EXPERT chord recognition, Chord scanning both upper and lower? And base inversion ON.


Works beautifully here.

Lee