Sorry, I can't stop laughing, considering the source. Next thing you know, Kingfrog will be coming flat out against slavery.....well, at least in principal.

chas

So how do you explain the popularity of the T1, T2 and T3 with their looks?

I know I prioritize sound above looks, but the instrument still has to work well ergonomically...buttons logically placed, and all controls easily accessible....no touch screens for me.

My main reason to getting the S900 after using a PSR-3000 for some time, was the sound...I love the SA Sax and SA Concert guitar on the former, and being mainly an instrumental player, it was important to me to have these sounds....they were worth the upgrade alone.

Silver is still the "in" color, although I have a suspicion the new mid-range S-series will have black cabinets, much like the recently introduced PSR-S550.

Ian

after using the touch screens for some time now, I really cant say I think they are better. And the comments, the sound, output and quality of output is more important, I agree. This looks to be a simple navigation arena in the Audya, and I like that, the less complicated the better, after all we want to play, not be stuck in some page 27 on the screen trying to change a voice. So I will be more interested in looking further at the screen and the layouts as time moves along. Right now just hoping that the end price is relevant to the world global crisis, otherwise this could all be for nothing. If its priced at around T3 Aus $5k then its a winner if its $7k Aus, then I would be worried, but it shure looks and sounds great so far.

I think that most arrangers that do not have a touch screen all have similar navigation..
1.You press a button
2. Look in the screen
3.The styles & or sounds are lined up next to function buttons on each side of the screen
4.You touch a function button to select what you want ..

How many pages are under each sound & style button are a factor and this is where Yamaha products become a problem. There are many pages under the sound & style categorys , making it hard to navigate in real time.. Ketron is never more than 3 pages with sound selection.. or style selection.

On the Yamaha arrangers, the Direct Access button really helps with navigation, and most people use registration buttons...much more efficient.

Touch screens have no tactile feedback whatsoever...not a good thing, in my opinion, and why I don't want an instrument that has one.

They are also very hard to use if a person is visually impaired.

Just like the old argument about the pitch bend lever/joystick versus the wheels, there will always be those who will argue that one is superior than the other.

It's nice to have a choice.

One thing that looks very awkward to use on the Audya are the style controls...the demonstrators all seem to have a bit of difficulty with them...why were they centrally located?

Hardware constraints must have dictated that location...otherwise they would have been situated on the left where the majority of players would find them easier to access.

The wheels seem a tad too high up on the panel as well.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-28-2009).]

I have to disagree with that one... 'Touch screens have no tactile feedback'

A well designed touch screen HAS tactile feedback... you touch it, you can feel that you have touched it. And then it works. There's WAY too much old school reaction to touch screens dating back to when they WEREN'T reliable. But, as with most things computer based, things have got MUCH better. I NEVER have to hit an area on the G70 screen twice, In fact, I don't have to look at all. As long as I hit the right area of the screen (and it is just as easy to hit the wrong button, if buttons are your preference, if you don't look) as long as I can feel I've touched it, it just works.

I've got a classic Triton. That is MUCH more likely to get something wrong. But hit the right target zone on the screen (no more difficult than picking the right button in a sea of other buttons) on a G70, and the function works 100% of the time.

My only problem now is simply the choice of layout, where the virtual buttons are... they aren't always in the area I would LIKE them to be... But that is a problem with physical buttons just as much, with the advantage that at least a software screen COULD be redesigned after the fact, which a button can't be...

So, simply put... if your impression of touch screen effectiveness goes back a generation or so, rest assured. Things have got VERY reliable.

So...you're saying the G70's screen clicks under your finger in a physical manner like a button? You can feel the part of the screen under the virtual button move and click into place?

I don't remember feeling anything in the way of a definite tactile response on the G70's screen.

Why are the visually impaired so strongly opposed to them?

I know I found it harder to see with my peripheral vision...certainly no where as visible as a button with a light in it, and I found that my rather large fingers didn't negotiate too well.

But, I guess it seems to work well enough for you.

ALso, the screen's virtual buttons (or areas) are not physically delineated which negates sliding your finger around and locating by touch alone.

I have a blind friend who tried the G70 whilst it was here at my place...he thought the screen was virtually useless.

Bright sunlight? Not good.

I know I would be very disappointed if Yamaha went that way....perhaps they are waiting for the technology to improve even more before they venture into that area?

As they are presented now, I found them a step back rather than a step ahead.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-29-2009).]

No, I have not said that. The feedback is you feeling that you've touched something. You CAN feel when you've touched the screen, can't you? No nerve damage, or anything like that?

You see, unlike a button, which you CAN touch without activating it (and which is why it IS important that there be a noticeable 'click' as it's is depressed), a touch screen only needs you to touch it. Didn't feel yourself touch it? Then you haven't. Feel your fingers touch the screen? Then you activated it. No need for a click...

Listen, I was as dubious as you when I first got it. Now I virtually NEVER mis-hit anything on the screen. Certainly no more than mis-hitting buttons. But the main advantage over the Yamaha button system is the sheer amount of controls that can be packed onto one screen... ONE screen has every single control for Vol., Pan, Reverb and Chorus for ALL the keyboard Parts (all nine of them) that you can see at a single glance. No paging through a bunch of screens, just to even FIND what you need to adjust.

We all know that multi-function screens are a necessary part of today's very complex arranger. They help keep prices down (because buttons and sliders - and the associated electronics to read them - are VERY expensive). Imagine an arranger with a button or a slider for EVERY function the screen does... It would be a MAZE of buttons hat would be harder to play live that using a screen! And cost as much as a Wersi

For the blind or visually impaired, well, there's always the option of staying on older gear with no screen, or, as I usually recommend, actually USING the registration features rather than trying to go old school and use these technical marvels as a 'free panel' relic. If you prepare your show at home, with some sighted assistance, and store everything in dedicated registrations, there is little need for the screen AT ALL on a gig.

Registration (UPG) navigation can bee done without sight as the list does not wrap around. You can hit the bottom left of the screen and page back to Page 1 by simply tapping it a bunch of times, then hit the bottom right a specific number (to get to a specific page), then touch the screen in one of ten areas (there ARE little notches in the side and bottom of the surround, to help guide you) and you have activated your Registration..! For songs that need multiple settings, you can either use the OTS (all programmable) or use footswitches or FC-7 switches to page up or down through the UPG list (UPS).

Were I visually challenged, I might also consider getting a raised overlay for the touch screen with raised areas to guide my fingers, so my hand knew where it was BEFORE I press anything...

But yes, I can see how, in todays world where almost everything from food dispensing machines to program guides on the television are multi function displays, things have got MUCH harder for the visually impaired. And sadly, as arrangers have grown from the simple things they were into today's do anything machines, things are no different in arrangerland.

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 01-29-2009).]

Perhaps you're right Diki, but I spent a week or more on the G70 and I really missed having that tactile click that only a button can give.

I suppose if I had more time I could adjust...it's not something I would willingly go for, but if I was forced into it, I would learn and probably experience no problems.

My blind friend really had a lot of trouble with it...he's presently using my old PSR-8000 which he mamages very well.

With him it all depends on memory...how many times to press a switch so a certain menu pops up...then remembering which switces to change the parameters...I watched him navigate around on the 8K...it was pretty amazing.

I really hope Yamaha never goes to a touch screen....so far so good.

Ian