What if there is no room to setup both pieces of the tower on a gig? Can you run the L1 Mod 1 with just the bottom set of speakers - and if so - is it being run on chan 1 or 2?

Last night I had only 3 inches clearance after setting up my system. Wasn't sure what to do if the top piece would not have fit.

Hammer

I think someone said there was different frequencies on each tower piece ....1 high, 1 mid?

You can do it, and it won't hurt your system, but you will miss some of the mid and high response. It can be corrected somewhat with e.q.
DonM

There was a few times I had to keep the PAS on the floor while I was set up on a low overhead stage.....maybe their next model should be a 3 piece pole?

Thanks guys for the input. One other question - would you still use both outputs from the keyboard into the PAS or would you use just the LR output from the keyboard into the amp?

Hammer

So it's about 7' tall or so? And you can't fit it on stage?

DAMN...! That's a LOW ceiling

You can still use both inputs, that won't matter.
Dikki, I've been in a couple situations where there was an overhang, design in the ceiling, or slope where I had to reposition the tower, or where it was a tight fit.
One instance was in the lounge of the American Legion where we had the Jam (but not the room we used this time). I had to put the two sections together then slide the system back under the overhang to get it where I wanted.
It's pretty rare, but it does happen.
Personally, I would rather be out of position than to use half of the tower. You can hear it anywhere it is, but it's optimal when it's just behind and slightly to the side.

DonM

Ceiling height has been a problem for me only twice.

In once instance I tried the half stack and was not pleased with the sound. So I removed a ceiling tile from the dropped ceiling to make it work. About 2-3 inches of the tower intruded into the ceiling cavity.

At a local Legion hall, I had to place the Bose on the floor, off stage. But the stage was very small and it was a non-problem. I placed the tower inconspicuously behind a flag. All evening people came up wanting to know where my speakers were.

Eddie

There is no advantage to running two cables. The audio is best summed at the keyboard out put.

Bose also suggests tilting the unit by putting a shim under the edge of the base, depending on how much clearance you lack.

8' ceiling with a 2foot high stage .....whats there to figure out?

Myabe that is true theorectially, but I have tested this extensively, and to my ears it sounds better when running both sides of the keyboard into two channels on the L1.
DonM

I have to agree with Don. I tried using only one cable while testing my L1 before using it on gigs and I thought it sounded better with both cables in use.

What I was after was trying to find out if each part of the tower is fed by different chanels on the L1 and if so which chanel feeds the top and bottom. My thinking was if I ever ended up forced to use only the bottom set of speakers on the tower would running the L/R ouput into whatever chanel feeds the bottom part of the tower improve things.

Come to think of it - I don't pay any attention to which chan I connect my outputs to on my gigs - one plug goes into one input and the other into the other input.


Hammer

Same here Don.....just A/B and you'll hear the difference for sure. 2 Sound fuller.

Ditto.

Don't understand how technically it can sound better because the fundamental problem as I see it is both stereo recordings of for an example, a piano are made on different locations on the instrument and sums badly in mono. You can't avoid the aural issues caused by combining two stereo recordings taken off different locations on the same piano.

This is why I thought it best to let the keyboard do all the summing as I have to assume the engineers "fixed" the stereo issues. Using the Mono Piano actually sounds better.

But its worth a try...

Forget technically....use your ears!

Forget your ears! They are the least trustworthy device you have!

At least give them a level playing field... The EXACT same file, when played back even a fraction of a db louder will sound different to your ears. They are very non-linear (and sensitive to volume) organs! In general, up to a point, the 'louder sounds better' rule applies.

Now, I don't know if you have thought about this, but feeding your arranger's output, summed into mono internally, and run through ONE cord may have a slightly different level to BOTH channels run in stereo to TWO channels on the board. So, before you make any hard and fast rules about whether internal mono sounds 'better' or 'worse' than externally summed mono, make sure you are monitoring the sound level at EXACTLY the same volume...

And I am afraid that most PA's don't have sensitive enough meters to tell you you are IDENTICAL on both systems. You might have to stick up a mike in front of the speaker and run into a DAW with some highly sensitive metering plug-in to be sure (and test levels with a sine tone or something non varying)...

Doesn't sound like a lot of fun, does it? But before you can well and truly say for SURE there really IS a difference, it needs to be done.

I didnt know you were an Audiologist too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiologist
....maybe your ears are blown ....but I'll trust my ears every time
Thank you very much.


[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-01-2009).]

If you don't have or use the Bose system, I can't see why it would make any difference to you.
I have two of them, and I know what I'm hearing.
So do all the guys who attended the recent Jam.
DonM

Bose Sounded great Don at the jam & when we playd in the club its all in the EQ.

Kingfrog,

If your store has a service department they should have Yamaha's CD of schematic diagrams on hand. Check the audio output circuitry and you'll find that the mono plug is not a true summation of both the left and right outputs. Electronically, the mono output is a pseudo mono, at least up until the Tyros1. I don't have schematics for the T2 and T3 so I do not know if this was rectified with the introduction of those two models. Unfortunately, I no longer have access to a digital DB/SU meter to determine if the sound is fractionally louder, but I seriously doubt if this is the case--or at least common sense tells me that if the volume controls on both channels are identical and the master volume is unchanged, then plugging in an additional instrument at the same volume into the mixer will not change the master output.

Deane, you may want to put a call in to Bose's service technical department and they'll be able to provide with the information you need about the tower connections. They have an outstanding service division and they can quickly provide you with an answer. I have encountered venues where ceiling height was a problem, namely a 100-year-old American Legion lounge in Havre de Grace, Maryland. The ceiling was just 7-feet 3-inches high, which meant I had to lift a ceiling tile to insert the tower's top section. When I did a load of dust came down from the ceiling, which was a real mess.

Good Luck,

Gary

I had the Bose set flat, and the mixer set flat. Any e.q. was from the keyboards.
I do the same at the job. The E50 doesn't need any e.q. The PSRS900 does.

My answer to Hammer, was from what Bose said in response to this same question from someone else.
DonM

There are a few threads regarding phase issue with keyboards through the PAS in Stereo.

Yamaha corrected this issue with the CP series by including a mono Piano. I guess the output summing for the keyboard isn't electronically correct. And Yamaha did view it as enough of an issue to rectify it on the Sample level. The T3 NOT having the same further goes to prove Yamaha's difficulty in viewing these Keyboards as actually used out side the home....LOL http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6806048934/m/9976080565 http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8766055944/m/6951046942?r=6951046942

Well, I took Gary's advice and just got off the phone with Bose Tech support. Here is exactly what he said.

If you are running a Bose L1 Classic there will be no technical problem using just the bottom part of the tower because each part of the tower on the classic has it's own amp.

If on the other hand you have the L1 Mod1 or Mod II there will be an impedance mismatch when running only one part of the tower because on those systems a single amp feeds both tower parts.

(I thought it was of interest that the Mod 1 and Mod II risk damage due to the impedance mismatch of using only one tower piece.)

Concerning how many cables to run - if you are running only mono it doesn't matter. Nor does it matter which channel you run the cables into. If you are attempting to run stereo then use two cables.

These answers address only the electrical requirements of each system and do not address the audio components such as wave cancellation etc..

Hammer

I wouldn't say my ears are blown, Donny. Other parts may have been, from time to time, though...

Maybe this might jog your memory.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour .

Like most things in the human body, like our eyesight, or sense of touch, it can be fooled. Recognizing when that happens is important, because that other organ (our brain) is the most easily fooled of all. Assuming it's right all the time is what gets many of us into areas we could be wrong about...

Does this mean you might get re-interested?

Oh, and a question... why is the new L1 so much more than the first? I understand the speaker angles are different, but does it make that much difference?

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 02-04-2009).]

No Cass it doesn't at all....I'm happy with two powered 15"'s & seperate powered sub when needed.....serves me fine...
I tried it for a while but its just not the comfort level I desire for my sound reinforcement needs.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-04-2009).]