|
|
|
|
|
|
#255644 - 02/04/09 03:28 AM
My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Yes, those are AJ's hands, lol, he was doing something on the XLR's. And lets start: Back in the begining of the 90s there was a Roland Arranger i think it was called E-40 INTELIGENT ARRANGER. It was a small machine, i think 3 octaves or something and it was called Inteligent Arranger but it was Dumb as any other piece of plastic. Then the Interactive Workstation term came out which was justified but not the Inteligent term. Now, the Inteligent Arranger can be finally for the first time justified on the Audya cuz its Inteligent and sometimes thinks like human...to justify this an example: A conventional arranger we have a style of 8 Bars/Measuers and you hit start and it starts 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and then it finishes at 8 goes back to 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and so on...and thats all you get. Now on the Audya you dont get that. You hit start and you start playing and the Arranger starts to get bored and starts thinking what to do right away, and it does this: starts again 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and comes back to 1..NO!!! Goes nowhere actually the Drummer and the Guitarist go on their own like drunk, you hear the arranger plays something that you didnt actually record in the but comes out of nowhere...what it means is, when it goes back to 1, not that its only not going back to 1 but also ADDS and TAKES notes, meaning, each measure next time comes on again is not the same, there is nothing that will sound robotic like on conventional arranger even using MIDI styles, not just AUDIO styles on the AUDYA. The arranger calculates ahead of time and then when it gets to that point it implies what calculated earlier. Now back to start: This particular Audya that i have in front of me is not a finished model, half of the OS is not there, half of Audio loops, its around 50-60% of the Final Audya and yet...no arranger has impressed me this much in my life as up to date, NONE. Hey, thats not a statement, thats only my liking and taste but we are way behind with any existing arranger, forget the internet guessing and rummors, this is not an Arranger, nor competition to PA2X or T3, this is something else, new, a begining of a new thing in music. Now, a 50-60% finished machine impressed me more then any existing machine. God bless me when i recieve the Final Audya and to Lee, yes, it will have a nice EVENT and SAMPLING editor right on it, on the synth, this aint SD5 or something like that. Ok, the INTELIGENT thing was one of the new things: KEY TUNES: its a new thing and probably the thing that impressed me the most. It works like this, i'll try simple: Lets say we have a KMP and on each Key we have a sample of Improvisation of some instruments, like loop, you hit the key and you hear a nice guitar riff then next key some nice sax solo e tc...yes KMP would do the same thing but it wont...KEYTUNE does it in a different way...it synchs it with the style and what happens to the sax solo is, if you change the style the tempo of the sax solo changes, so no matter what key you hit the tempo is WITH STYLE. In a way like Korgs Pads but not really, this is different its usfeull to me actually more for recorded Audio Solos and Impros. MIDJAY: thats where the fun starts, as a stupid example, you take a song and you cut it in pieces and you save them as DJ LOOPS which is MIDJAY file and then, each part at the same time is applied to Var 1 to 4 and also to Fills, Intros and else. Right away it synchs with style, it can be thrown to a ACC track and you control each part thru variations like the style. Ok, that might be useless, who would do that with MP3 song, i wont but...a percussion loop or drum loop even audio loop... uuuuhhhh...gain, simillar to Korgs Pads but still different, in here, when you change Var the Pad changes too, its complex. Yes, we all know about MidJay but integrated on the Audya is a whole new story now. AUDIO STYLES: originally and Audya's agenda is to be an Audio Arranger, i mean Audio Controlled, not MIDI notes as any conventional arranger. I have never EVER heard any better sounding Style then the Audio styles inside it, i hit my head in the wall, it kills any existing arranger, including PA2XPRO or T3 and trust me, theres hell of a lot of Audio Styles in it. Every Var next time you come back sounds different, every measure next time you come back is different. AJ was laughing at me when i wanted to start sampling some of the snares and kicks off the rock styles, i went crazy, deppending on your playing of the chords thats how the whole style behaves, every few seconds you hear some snare, bass line or something added in the right time and position to make it sounds better and you never recorded those notes...YAYYYYYYY!!!!!! And the best is, if you change chords too fast or in particular way, creates its own small FillIns, if you change a var in a wrong time again its own FILLIN. SUPER SOLOS: or also called RAM INS, Ketron didnt use terminology as SA or SA2, MegaVoices or RX or DNC. Its a new thing, there is no ASS.SW, everything is controller while playing, if you hit C then F it plays one thing and if you hit C then G is another control, Velocity, Legato, Staccato, Aftertouch, speed between notes and many other things, those sounds are Amazing, when i played the Trumpet from RamIns my eyes popped out. RAMINS is actually what we call the SampledSounds, they reside on the HD, you LOAD them on a separate Bank, save them and when you start same as on the new PA, starts fast with the OS. UPDATES: the synth has its own conventional ROM and also and HD for everything. After the release the synth will be worked on for another 2 years, by factory, providing more styles, sounds and different OS, it is an Open Achitecture Synth, anything at anytime is possible, if someones is willing to do it there is no limitation to this synth, OS, Sounds or Styles. Those are the 4 things that impressedme the most, there is tonz new things we never used or heard of before but i cant write whole book or a manual in here. The synths is also not as heavy as i expected, maybe lighter or exact as PA2X or or something. Now, when it comes to Chord Recognition there was some fuss on here which was wrong, testing an unfinished model. Every brand has its bad side in Chord Recognition, certain chords that Korg reads Yamaha wont and the opposite, this is the way it is and we all know that for a fact. On the Audya actually when you change a chord on Audio Styles the riff and style itself changes, the Guitars or the Bassline sound different like a real band would do. Honestly till today i was very pessimistic and scared about the Audya. Back to Audya, after all i said, its not even half, YES, there is secrets and a lot more to come then we know, trust me, therez more to it. As for final release i cant say nothing, i have no clue but it is going to happen, this time. I dont know, i cant really write everything in here, certain things i forgot to write...whatever, its not a bad intention writing this on here, i just wanted to share, this baby is coming to my house nd it will stay there for loooooonnnnnngggg...this is a synth for the next 10 years. Thanks for reading this.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255648 - 02/04/09 07:28 AM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4386
Loc: Norway
|
This particular Audya that i have in front of me is not a finished model, half of the OS is not there, half of Audio loops, its around 50-60% of the Final Audya ..... Well, it's been a while since Audya hype first started, and now we hear 50 - 60% final Audya, then it's 40 - 50 % unfinished, and sale started in Italy and some other European countries already? Me oh my, then they still have lots of time for marketing, if progress continues like we've seen so far, the "final" product will be ready in about 2 - 3 years or so? Or maybe it's so that the 40 - 50 % unfinished will be sold separately as a lot of high priced addons? GJ
_________________________
Cheers 🥂 GJ _______________________________________________ "Success is not counted by how high you have climbed but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255653 - 02/04/09 10:29 AM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
I stand on everything i said, yes, Ketrons marketing sux and it will bring them nowhere but this synth is not even ... i cant explain, what we expect from it its probably only 50% of what it will really give us. DNJ is right too but the delay must be there for a reason, dont forget, its an open architecture, many things will be added as we ask. I dont have big influence on the people i work for Ketronb but i know for a fact i can ask them for certain things on the machine and actually get them same as i did with the KORG PA team...and Don, keep your wife away from shows like this, i used to have one too. Gunnar, i waited this long and hell yeah i will wait another 3 months if i have to if they trying to make it better. For your info, and trust my word. NOONE IN THE WORLD HAS BOUGHT THIS SYNTH YET!!! Maybe they paid and waiting but noone has the machine as bought.
[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 02-04-2009).]
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255656 - 02/04/09 10:48 AM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Lee, as i said, why half the price when you are not getting thaT? I dont get it, whats so hard to understand, noone has paid for this synth and actually got it yet, there is some time to go first before that happens.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255658 - 02/04/09 11:43 AM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
|
Originally posted by Nedim: I stand on everything i said, yes, Ketrons marketing sux and it will bring them nowhere but this synth is not even ... i cant explain, what we expect from it its probably only 50% of what it will really give us. DNJ is right too but the delay must be there for a reason, dont forget, its an open architecture, many things will be added as we ask. I dont have big influence on the people i work for Ketronb but i know for a fact i can ask them for certain things on the machine and actually get them same as i did with the KORG PA team...and Don, keep your wife away from shows like this, i used to have one too. Gunnar, i waited this long and hell yeah i will wait another 3 months if i have to if they trying to make it better. For your info, and trust my word. NOONE IN THE WORLD HAS BOUGHT THIS SYNTH YET!!! Maybe they paid and waiting but noone has the machine as bought.
[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 02-04-2009).] Hey, my wife is cool. She understand that with my limited ability, I need the best tools I can get! She has never questioned any gear I buy. She's a saint! DonM
_________________________
DonM
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255661 - 02/04/09 12:30 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Originally posted by leezone: Nedim you yourself said yourself it was 50% from the final product,
also, i believe they have sold/delivered a few AUDYA's in Portugal already....
so that would mean they are selling it 50% complete,
AJ? Ketron? Lee, yes, thats what i said but read what i said again, its not the final product, that doesnt mean they will sell it like that and no, they didnt deliver it anywhere yet.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255662 - 02/04/09 12:32 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
So, do you see my picture with the AUDYA??? I can claim i have one too, cant i? Completely! And yes, the Box, i saw the Box too yesterday, i could've gotten a picture like that too. Even if they sold, or sell it as it is, they still work on the synth, you will get the update. I am not talkint about Korg's or others kind of update, this is major things.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255668 - 02/04/09 01:53 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
|
Not enough FACTS on this thread, I'm afraid. No shortage of people speaking FOR Ketron that have no official word of any kind... I have got to the point that unless it comes from AJ, it has no more weight than a post by any of us here But I'll say what many of you are probably thinking... If Ketron ARE shipping this thing in an unfinished state, it bodes poorly for their financial health to do something so ill-conceived. Now don't get me wrong. My G70 was shipped in what many of us thought was an 'unfinished' state, but those shortcomings didn't effect the basic operation of the unit. If entire chord types are 'missing' but will appear later, that's a primary function issue. On the whole, though, I think that many of you are being VERY optimistic that this chord issue will be rectified 'at a later date'. After all the work put into the OS to have extensions added in by MIDI guitars, and whole chord types added in by MIDI parts, this isn't something you do at the drop of a hat. They have been working on this system for a LONG time for it to work effectively. In fact, it seems like this 'feature' has been in the pipe a LONG time. If fixing this issue involved such a complex solution, you can bet that they pretty much exhausted the ways to try and do it more simply with just the correct chord type loops...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255672 - 02/04/09 04:20 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
|
If this is true it is not the first time from a keyboard manufacturer. The Roland Fantom G was shipped early to meet a shipping deadline and consequently the OS was not complete upon its release to the public (still not in my opinion because the OS is still missing important "scissor and glue" functions for the Sequencer for one, and other omissions too in my opinion). Kurzweil is another example. Their PC3X shipped with "missing" functionality. So I could understand how Ketron might do the same thing with the Audya. In other words, it will be a work in progress and the OS updates over the course of two or so years that should finally bring the Audya up to snuff. On a side, do you not remember the Roland G-70 patty cake patty cake?? Roland spent several years re-tooling the G70 and coming up with the latest version with version number 3 which is the current one. FWIW, on the Richter Scale of 1 to 10 a "3" can barely be felt. Hopefully Roland's next totl arranger will be of the magnitude of around a 7 or 8. You know,.. shake things up some! Put back in the Chord Sequencer - (as Diki shouts Hallelujah!!) give it USB 2.0, put some substantial WAV ROM in the thing and give it a decent VH just to mention a few. Back to the Audya. How much dinero are we talking about again? All the best, Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255674 - 02/04/09 04:54 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Member
Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 90
Loc: Rimini, Italy
|
Here in Italy Audya is out and selling. In italian forums you can read of people that bought it.
Regarding style play, I found no "Intelligence" on the audya... just audio drums have a lot of measures recorded. (8).
Regarding unfinished features... well... one for example is the chord recognition settings. You can choose from Easy1, Easy2, Standard, Rootless modes, but whatever you choose you get Easy1, other modes are simply not implemented yet. This got me crazy when trying to play in pianist mode... By now it's impossible to do, since each single key pressed will change to the maj chord of that key....
As I said already, right hand sounds... are more or less like my G70 sounds. G70 piano is far superior for example, also G70 oboe and organs. Drawbars on the audya are simply sine waves, really can't compare with G70 VK derived ones.
[This message has been edited by mrdave (edited 02-04-2009).]
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255678 - 02/04/09 06:29 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
|
Let's take this in order... To the genesys; The Audya has never bee accused of not RECOGNIZING any chord thrown at it. What it DOES have a problem with is actually PLAYING them in audio loop form. mrdave reports maj min and a few 7ths. And that is THAT. Play a dim or an aug, and the loop stops cold, a MIDI part plays until you change back to a maj or min again. No sus's, no aug's. Dropout time again. I can see Ketron's need to add extensions by an additional note or two, but whole basic chords (sorry if anyone thinks a diminished or augmented chord is not 'basic' ) being completely missing is, IMO, simply unacceptable. It's of GREAT significance that Ketron do not provide (as yet) any soloed guitar track demos that extends beyond maj/min/7th. So, as potential buyers, we are denied opportunity to decide if this feature works acceptably or not. For my part, if it did, I would have expected them to showcase it. It simply seems too much of a 'kluge'. Mike... I won't respond too much to the Roland baiting. On another Audya thread I've already brought up the G70's 'unfinished' launch myself before your post appeared. Suffice it to say, the G70's unfinished nature did not involve basic operation, it worked impressively enough at launch for it to persuade me to drop my long-loved G1000, and whatever has been added has come as an enhancement to an already good product, not a necessary addition just to get basic functionality. To you, it was a '3'. To me, it's still a '7.8' Or, if you prefer, maybe a '3' on the Richter Scale won't raise your hairs, but on the Fujita Scale it will definitely wake you up! But that is simply our individual opinions, not quite the fact you present it as! As to USB2, what possible use is that to an arranger without a sampler? We've discussed this before, but offline storage isn't quite the pressing need, in my book. As it is with the Audya, to be fair. As long as it loads from it's HD fast enough for live use, loading up at home isn't quite the problem. Don't forget, although it may lack USB2, it's internal data bus is ATA, EIDE or SATA, like most computers (few use USB2 internally). And from reports unconfirmed, it manages at least 1MB/sec data transfer to the RAM, completely outpacing several keyboards with USB2 interfaces. The bottleneck is STILL the data pipe, and not the interface, IMO. Yes, it's a definite inconvenience working at home, but not the impediment to live play that having whole chord types disappear (to be replaced by regular MIDI, non-Mega guitar parts) could be... And what about the glacial save on the Yamaha's sampler? It's a huge improvement over THAT, at least That doesn't achieve even floppy disk speeds Users report HOURS for saves of edits on large files. I simply find myself being able to cut the Audya slack in certain areas, but once again, I have to ask... are we not musicians first and foremost? I can take almost any sort of OS weirdness or offline inconvenience, but anything that detracts from it's MUSICAL effectiveness gets a 'fail' grade, I'm sorry to say...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255684 - 02/04/09 08:40 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
As i said and will repeat my self, i Demoed AJs unit and its not a final unit, Prototype or not. My words of Audya not being sold yes are not mine but Ketrons. I believe them, that doesnt necesarilly mean they are not lying, i dont know what their agenda is but certainly thats what they say. When i Demoed the unit, it missing HELL of everything, even the most basic things, there is not even FX on it and you gonna tell me its the final unit? And no, there aint no different between AJs unit or KetronUSAs unit, it is the same one unit.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255685 - 02/04/09 08:43 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
And you see, Diki already acuses Audya of not having a sampler, at least i took it so when he says what use is USB 2.0 if the synth has no sampler. Heloooooooooooooooo wake up people and dont be kids, this is sad and funny. When you buy or test the Audya like i did then talk, dont talk now based of what I or someone else said but bring your own judgement when you touch it and play it. Dont talk BS about unfinished product. I dont care about Ketron, i will never change my PA800 for any Ketron but lets be real and honest, we blabering like kids in here but actually none of us has a clue of what we talking about.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255686 - 02/04/09 10:12 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 3456
Loc: South Africa
|
Nedim,
Let me make myself unpopular and get it over with. I do not know whether most of these critisizers reside in America or not, but if so I'm starting to loose a lot of respect for those. Always critisizing, always knowing better, yet never achieving anything out of the ordinary themselves. Need I go on?
As for the Audya, it is a fantastic breakthrough and I would beg Ketron not to be offended by all these extremely rude and totally uncalled for accusations. Please continue with your development. You will have many happy customers, just like you've always had. You're setting a pace for others to follow and after the release of the Audya, arrangers will never be the same as we came to know it.
Thank you for your dedication in this regard an please take as long as required to finish this outstanding product to your own liking and not by what's being dictated to you.
When it's ready, I'll make a plan for financing one of my own. Yamaha is huge, yet I never needed them in the four years that I've had my PSR3K - it makes no difference to me whether Ketron is huge or small, I know that I'll not need any other backup after purching my Audya bar the occasional OS updates. So big deal about the size of the company I'm buyin it from! And if the company is run by two old guys only, my hat off to them for what they've achieved - even the more outstanding. In South Africa we cannot buy something, use it for a week or two and then simply return it for a refund if not happy so we are not spoiled rotten in this regard.
That song that says: Oh Lord, it's so hard to be humble - it really makes me think.
Nuff said,
Henni South Africa
[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 02-04-2009).]
[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 02-04-2009).]
_________________________
Make sure you'll fly forever!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255687 - 02/04/09 10:58 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Member
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
|
Diki said: “Let's take this in order... To the genesys; The Audya has never bee accused of not RECOGNIZING any chord thrown at it. What it DOES have a problem with is actually PLAYING them in audio loop form. mrdave reports maj min and a few 7ths. And that is THAT. Play a dim or an aug, and the loop stops cold, a MIDI part plays until you change back to a maj or min again. No sus's, no aug's. Dropout time again. I can see Ketron's need to add extensions by an additional note or two, but whole basic chords (sorry if anyone thinks a diminished or augmented chord is not 'basic' ) being completely missing is, IMO, simply unacceptable. It's of GREAT significance that Ketron do not provide (as yet) any soloed guitar track demos that extends beyond maj/min/7th. So, as potential buyers, we are denied opportunity to decide if this feature works acceptably or not. For my part, if it did, I would have expected them to showcase it. It simply seems too much of a 'kluge'.”
Again one must understand that the basic operations on the Audya I would think is still there. That is a midi style can play most chords and extensions. Hopefully with respect to midi style nothing was subtracted from what they had in their previous TOTL arrangers.
Having one – three audio tracks in a style is an additional feature and is not a basic operational feature of the arranger. If there were styles with just audio tracks, then not recognizing all chord types and not recognizing extensions would be a basic non feature. Having SA voices on the T2 is an additional feature and SA 2 was not available for all sounds. Same deal with audio style tracks on the Audya.
It is interesting to note that because audio tracks on a style was an additional feature on the Audya, it seems as if Ketron may have taken the strategy that for the initial release they would use audio tracks for certain genres and that only the chords commonly used with those genres would they record audio types for. I.E Rock major and minor. Some contemporary add 7ths and if other may want to use other chord types then midi would take over. Soloing the track would not tell you much it is how the style sounds as a total package. Now if when the whole style plays, and the exclusion of audio tracks for other chord types does not sound good (very subjective), then Ketron may need to rethink their implementation.
Remember an SA sax would not have the same SA as an SA guitar.
_________________________
TTG
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255688 - 02/05/09 12:49 AM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: Oradea, RO
|
Originally posted by Henni: Nedim,
Let me make myself unpopular and get it over with. I do not know whether most of these critisizers reside in America or not, but if so I'm starting to loose a lot of respect for those. Always critisizing, always knowing better, yet never achieving anything out of the ordinary themselves. Need I go on?
As for the Audya, it is a fantastic breakthrough and I would beg Ketron not to be offended by all these extremely rude and totally uncalled for accusations. Please continue with your development. You will have many happy customers, just like you've always had. You're setting a pace for others to follow and after the release of the Audya, arrangers will never be the same as we came to know it.
Thank you for your dedication in this regard an please take as long as required to finish this outstanding product to your own liking and not by what's being dictated to you.
When it's ready, I'll make a plan for financing one of my own. Yamaha is huge, yet I never needed them in the four years that I've had my PSR3K - it makes no difference to me whether Ketron is huge or small, I know that I'll not need any other backup after purching my Audya bar the occasional OS updates. So big deal about the size of the company I'm buyin it from! And if the company is run by two old guys only, my hat off to them for what they've achieved - even the more outstanding. In South Africa we cannot buy something, use it for a week or two and then simply return it for a refund if not happy so we are not spoiled rotten in this regard.
That song that says: Oh Lord, it's so hard to be humble - it really makes me think.
Nuff said,
Henni South Africa
[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 02-04-2009).]
[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 02-04-2009).] I must say this is a good and healthy approach. If Ketron really took the risk and tried to come up with something pretty innovative, we should praise them and appreciate the effort. This is only one way for future development of arrangers. Tyros 3 SA2 it's another one. Maybe each manufacturer will come up with it's own system, or maybe after a while we'll have a new standard, that will be embraced by all of them. But we should aknowledge and appreciate Ketron, just as much as Yamaha in this sense. And once again, by when will we have a "baby" audya?
_________________________
Yamaha S770, Studio One 3, EMU 0404USB, ESI, ATH, Dell. And others.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255697 - 02/05/09 07:50 AM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Ok, first of all i am an SD5 owner and another 5 Ketron machines, i didnt mean literary a toy but you know what i mean, come on, you cant compare Audya and SD5, it is 2 worlds. As for release date i dont know, Lee can say all he wants but for another 2 months i dont think we will be seing a ready Audya...just my opinion...i dont know about the ones that bought it already...maybe special order...LOL...
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255698 - 02/05/09 08:00 AM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
|
Nedim.., you can call the SD5 a toy compared to the Audya but it sure as hell ain't priced as a freakin toy! The SD5 could be what the S900 is to the Tyros line..., yet look at how much the SD5 costs (not to mention the freakin size of that keyboard alone).
Ketron does some good stuff...., I'll give them that. Problem is Ketron IMO is on the path to WERSI pricing status. With the way the market is today (even with KEYBOARD companies going out of business) you'd think Ketron would take that into consideration. Anytime a keyboards price is literally HALF that of an economy vechicle SOMETHING IS SERIOUSLY F&%^%ING WRONG!
I know there are many supporters out there for Ketron and I have no problem with that..., but Diki CALLED THEM on a few issues. Turns out he was also right yet the guy gets shat on just for asking the questions. Another member gets shat on for complaining about OUTDATED usb specs and his complaints were more than justified.
I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Ketron shipped out unfinished units across the waters. Hell..., everyone's doing that now just to meet a deadline and the consumer becomes the beta tester....
Plus Ketron (although they make some nice stuff) don't have the status of Yamaha, Korg, or Roland. We've seen the fall of two keyboard companies now due to the current economy (and other internal problems these companies had)..., so why would a keyboard company such as Ketron produce such expensive ass equipment???? If you're a smaller keyboard company and your price line is OUT OF REACH for the typical buyer then you'd damn well better be using the BEST and MOST CURRENT hardware on your product too--which Ketron ISN'T doing. Look how long it took just to get a half decent color display on a Ketron!!!!!!!
[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 02-05-2009).]
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255700 - 02/05/09 09:19 AM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
|
The Audya shouldn't make the price of a Tyros 3 or a top Korg PA look like TOTL arranger keyboards ANYONE can afford. It should be priced according to it's competition.
The SD5 sells for what $2,300+ This is a 61 key arranger that's 46 inches long, weighs nearly 35 lbs, uses old ass floppy disks for (song recording--come on even Yamaha stopped doing that with the PSR-2000), over $2,000 and the harmonizer is OPTIONAL.., uses a display that's not even comparable to the PSR-S700.., or even the PSR-3000. Ketron for some reason must have had a major dislike for data dials too which is clearly seen in their model line.., although Ketrons styles are nice.., you get what.., 128 preset styles on the SD5 and extra style expansion is OPTIONAL for a measly 2mbs. Plus isn't the poly only 64 notes???? In this price range 64 note poly is disgraceful.., geez even the PSR-3000 had 128 note poly. I sure as hell wouldn't pay that much money for this keyboard considering how outdated it's hardware is.
[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 02-05-2009).]
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255703 - 02/05/09 01:18 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
|
At least it's 128.... On one site I saw today it was listed as 64 note poly.... This was a site selling the thing too.., and they got the poly info wrong.
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255704 - 02/05/09 02:19 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
|
At least Mike got my reference correctly. Nedim. He was talking about the G70 and USB1. My reply was about the lack of need for USB2 on an arranger that has no sampler. Sorry if you read that wrong and went ballistic, but you MIGHT have remembered me asking about the speed of Akai sample load to the Audya's sampler, and also bemoaning the paltry 64MB (half of my ten year old K2500) RAM limit. You REALLY need to use your memory a bit more before you start making wild accusations. This whole Audya thiong has got spread over two or three different threads. Read them ALL before you make quick ASSumptions, especially with perhaps not a perfect command of English.... To the genesys... Ketron, from Day 1 of the Audya's announcement (it may be hard to remember that far back ) have touted the audio loop feature as it's PRIMARY advantage. In fact, at first it WAS supposed to do several parts in audio at the same time. Reality must have crashed in on their dream, but there is NO WAY, no matter how hard you spin it, that the audio loops feature was ever supposed to be just an add-on to a standard arranger. Of course, NOW, that appears to be how it has turned out, but if you look back at what Ketron announced, and STILL continue to promote as 'revolutionary'. In fact, here's their current promo blurb.... --------------------------------------------------------------- AUDYA Advanced Music Station The new KETRON state-of-the-art AUDYA represents the next generation of contemporary Entertainment keyboards, featuring a top-quality sound engine, a powerful Audio Multiplayer, revolutionary and unique solutions in the Auto Accompaniment industry, and the capability to interact with the outside world through multiple multimedia capability. KETRON has once more raised the Arranger keyboard bar up to a long awaited hi-professional level, offering musicians the total freedom to play and control Audio files within the Arranger and Midifiles. * * * Intelligent Audio Drums KETRON AUDYA introduces a very innovative concept used with Styles and Midi files : REAL AUDIO DRUMS synchronized under Midi sync tempo domain. Until now, robotic and redundant Midi Drums were the only ways to reproduce drum patterns. AUDYA delivers to you a Live Drummer performance which brings a new drive into the Automatic accompaniment section. Out with the old annoying Midi patterns – in with the new exhaustive Real Audio Drums at your fingertips!! The Audio Drum tracks are used to play extra long Stereo takes with real Intros, Fills and Endings, all working on perfect sync with the conventional Midi resources and chording. Figure this out – you can now cover all your background styles such as Pop, Rock, Ballad, Swing, Traditional, Latin with an unprecedent music taste of ‘live musicians’ and not pre-programmed sequence. Real drummers and percussionists did a great job for you ... and they’re still at your convenience, following your Tempo changes and improvisations. No longer will you be asked “which Drum Set did you use for this track”, but “which musician recorded this track for you?” ... Unbelievable!! Real Audio Arranger In addition to the Audio Drums, a huge variety of Real Live Guitars and Bass backgrounds have been provided within AUDYA. Folk, Classic, Electric and even Flamenco patterns, all performed by respecting the proper feel of each different type of music, and all perfectly synchronized with Drums and Bass!! With the Unplugged styles, you can enjoy the individual Guitar performances, a perfect tool for singing, performance and composition. The sensation of playing with a Real Band backing was never this true and exciting before. Just play any chord and listen!! --------------------------------------------------------------- This does NOT make it sound like the audio loops are an afterthought, and I am afraid I had to laugh at the highlighted (my highlights) section. It should read "Just play a maj or a min chord, and listen! (don't play a dim or aug or sus, though...)!"
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255705 - 02/05/09 03:03 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
|
Originally posted by squeak_D: The Audya shouldn't make the price of a Tyros 3 or a top Korg PA look like TOTL arranger keyboards ANYONE can afford. It should be priced according to it's competition.
The SD5 sells for what $2,300+ This is a 61 key arranger that's 46 inches long, weighs nearly 35 lbs, uses old ass floppy disks for (song recording--come on even Yamaha stopped doing that with the PSR-2000), over $2,000 and the harmonizer is OPTIONAL.., uses a display that's not even comparable to the PSR-S700.., or even the PSR-3000. Ketron for some reason must have had a major dislike for data dials too which is clearly seen in their model line.., although Ketrons styles are nice.., you get what.., 128 preset styles on the SD5 and extra style expansion is OPTIONAL for a measly 2mbs. Plus isn't the poly only 64 notes???? In this price range 64 note poly is disgraceful.., geez even the PSR-3000 had 128 note poly. I sure as hell wouldn't pay that much money for this keyboard considering how outdated it's hardware is.
[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 02-05-2009).] Squeak I wish you would say what you really mean !!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255709 - 02/06/09 09:22 AM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Ketron of course is wayyy punchier on a PA system then any Korg and comes out better but Korg is up with time, Ketron system is still designed by Hitlers scientists. Thats what i meant: Sampling, GTR Mode, Voice Editing, FX, Event Editor...everything lacks on Ketron. Please dont tell me you can edit voice and there is FX on Ketron...
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255710 - 02/06/09 11:25 AM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
|
Nedim is right about the areas he mentioned where Ketron is lacking. Ketron makes some nice sounding gear, but you're paying a hell of a lot of money for sounds and styles because in many other areas the boards don't match the competition, but they cost more.
Let's be realistic here. How much longer can Ketron go on with such high prices? We've seen a couple makers fall (one more recently). The economy is to shit right now. How many times have we seen Wersi's bottom fall out over the years???
It would be one thing if Ketron was making these units that not only sound great, but at least matched or beat the competition in the other areas where they're clearly lacking. Sure they got these new audio type styles (which clearly haven't been all they've been hyped upped to be as we've seen already here by some who have played it)..., but take away the sounds/styles and look at FEATURES. What do you see in practical features on the Ketron that makes it better than a Tyros 3 or a high end Korg PA model? You take away Ketrons styles and sounds and really start to compare the guts and well....., you get where I'm going with this.
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255712 - 02/06/09 01:41 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
|
Yes Spalding, is not complete, i didnt wanna say anything earlier but since KetronUsa already said it i can say it now too, AUDYA wont be available till at least March-April as a full completed synth, maybe not even released, thats why i kept going back and forth with Lee.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255716 - 02/06/09 03:17 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
|
Ketron could sell a crap load of their gear if they just lowered the price because once you strip away the sounds and styles.., there's really nothing that sets them apart from any of the others.., especially considering things that come standard on the others are OPTIONS on the Ketron.
Ketron's got some great sounding keyboards for sure..., but like I said before.., you're paying a HUGE price just for those sounds and styles because Ketron still lacks in many areas where the others clearly are ahead.
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255722 - 02/06/09 03:49 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Junior Member
Registered: 04/12/07
Posts: 23
Loc: Portugal
|
Hi. The AUDYA is on the market in almost all the south-european countrys from 15 January. In Portugal we receive until now almost 20 Keyboards and are all sell. The AUDYA is not 50% or 60% finished. It is almost 100% complete , and i said ALMOST , because they dont delivery yet the final Instrution Manual , and the Software to produce the Audio Styles. Also , in my opinion , I think they can put a "Pattern Edit" funtion directly in the Keyboard. In Portugal not everyone had a computer , and with that small function they can edit and correct the midi parts of the style. The Audya is Open Architectury and they can develop new functions , new sounds or what they want. I Hope they continue developing new ideas for this plattform , lots of new thing can be integrated in the audya. I explore the OS and i see that everything can be edited , we can "personalize" the Keyboarb for the kneeds of the musician. All the soundbank are RW , all the audio parts can be edited , all the audio guitars can be edited.... We had no limits to work here..... As the first User said , the arranger part of the audio Styles are fantastic. The right hand sounds are very very good , and yes , no comparation with the Japonese models , this is the best arranger keyboard of the moment. Go test yourself and see. And is EASY , EASY to work.... As you see in the few videos i produce and share with all in my blog , the Musicians came to see the keyboard and i film , no preparation..... As you see , they dont ad no problem to start playing in the Audya , its so easy , that apears they already know were are everything... Sorry about my bad english. Best regards FC www.ketronaudya.wordpress.com
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255723 - 02/06/09 03:53 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
|
Squeak, have you ever owned a Ketron? They have always been ahead of the curve when they bring keyboards out. The old OS is different, but very effective, once you learn it. The new OS on the Midjay is by far the easiest of any I've ever dealt with, and the registration system is the quickest and most simple also. They were the first company to allow us to associate text files with styles, automatically or via registration, many years ago. Yamaha finally did it on the Tyros. The vocal harmonizer has been top notch for many years (except on the Midjay!). There is a choice of 6 or 13 button foot controllers available. SDs and Audya have two XLR mic inputs. Video out has long been included. Power supply is built in, NO WALL WART). The ability to edit and e.q. each style part and each individual drum part is there, plus you can easily solo style parts. There are SO many dedicated buttons and sliders for real-time control, eliminating many menus. There are many options for touch control of variation parts, fills and yes, Roland, Break/fills. The human voices are something Yamaha has never got right, though Roland does well. Ketron does it very well. However, the bottom line, as you said, are sounds and styles. Ever since the X1, I have not found it necessary to use third-party styles. Whatever I have needed has been available. All the older keyboard styles are compatible also. As for the sound, I don't believe there is anyone who will question that, as far as authentic, believable voices, in particular the way they do the drums and bass lines. I believe the Audya will incorporate more of the gadget nuances and effects that technology is now allowing, such as Yamaha has done with SA voices. Not important to me, as they seem to get in my way more than they help. But I'm old. The 76-note SD1 and now the Audya are what many of the players here have been yearning for. They managed to do it and keep the weight down, yet still use a sturdy case and great keybed. As far as those of you who are questioning the stability of the company, they seem to be rock solid, and have been for many, many years. While Ketron is not well known in the U.S. outside of our little group, it is a big name in other countries, where arrangers are far more popular. They sell loads of modules, used by accordion and guitar players around the world. I think nobody else makes arranger modules now, since Technics shut down. Ketron has always issued many updates at no charge, even on units that were as much as 7 or 8 years old. They did a total overhaul of the SD1 some five years after it was introduced, at no charge. Yes, the SDs are getting a little long in the tooth, and I suppose that's why the Audya is being produced. Unlike some companies, that make you pay for minor upgrades by issuing a "new" model every 18 months or so, they take their time and try to make something that is built to last us for a number of years without getting dated too quickly, or having the buttons push into the case, or have keys break or screens not work. They have certainly taken their time on this one! I was ready to buy the demo one, but I can wait. . . . not forever though, I'm getting older each day. DonM
_________________________
DonM
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255725 - 02/06/09 10:12 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
|
Originally posted by fc_xander: Hi.
The AUDYA is on the market in almost all the south-european countrys from 15 January.
In Portugal we receive until now almost 20 Keyboards and are all sell.
The AUDYA is not 50% or 60% finished. It is almost 100% complete , and i said ALMOST , because they dont delivery yet the final Instrution Manual , and the Software to produce the Audio Styles. Also , in my opinion , I think they can put a "Pattern Edit" funtion directly in the Keyboard. In Portugal not everyone had a computer , and with that small function they can edit and correct the midi parts of the style.
The Audya is Open Architectury and they can develop new functions , new sounds or what they want. I Hope they continue developing new ideas for this plattform , lots of new thing can be integrated in the audya.
I explore the OS and i see that everything can be edited , we can "personalize" the Keyboarb for the kneeds of the musician. All the soundbank are RW , all the audio parts can be edited , all the audio guitars can be edited.... We had no limits to work here.....
As the first User said , the arranger part of the audio Styles are fantastic. The right hand sounds are very very good , and yes , no comparation with the Japonese models , this is the best arranger keyboard of the moment.
Go test yourself and see.
And is EASY , EASY to work....
As you see in the few videos i produce and share with all in my blog , the Musicians came to see the keyboard and i film , no preparation..... As you see , they dont ad no problem to start playing in the Audya , its so easy , that apears they already know were are everything...
Sorry about my bad english. Best regards
FC www.ketronaudya.wordpress.com So what is it? 100% finished or needs much improvement ?.........it's can't be both! [This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-06-2009).]
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255728 - 02/06/09 11:54 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
|
You know, any more of this 'spin doctoring', and I'm going to get dizzy... You know, there is one issue, and one issue alone that interests most of us, because the Audya, without it, is merely just another arranger, in fact, one with considerably LESS features than T3, PA2Xpro, heck, even my G70! If it STOPS PLAYING in the loop section when faced with a more complex chord than maj and min derivatives, and switches to an altogether different system altogether, what is the value of that? It's kind of like, it's an Audya for maj and min, and it's an SD-1 for dim's sus's and aug's... Not exactly the great leap forward we were promised... More a 'bunny hop' Korg's and Yamaha's already have FAR more sophisticated Guitar Modes for those pesky chords, and extremely realistic guitar voicing with none of the 'dropout' problems. Plus SA2 voices, large RAM samplers, long length patterns (in Korg's case), just about anything that the Audya has. This ONE feature is the difference, gentlemen. And, unless a miracle occurs (I'm not holding my breath, are you? ), it just plain doesn't work. Unless you eschew dim's, aug's, sus's, and don't expect correct guitar voicing on all the extensions (which Korg, Yamaha and even Roland's Guitar modes DO). It's going to sound great. So does a T3, so does a PA2Xpro (which is just as capable of doing audio drum loops if you bother to do it yourself). But the thing it claimed was going to revolutionize the industry has fallen short of the finish line...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255741 - 02/07/09 02:26 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
|
Waiting until someone, or several 'someone's' has already bought the unit before we question the difference between hype and reality seems like shutting the stable door AFTER the horse has bolted...
When Ketron's own factory demos display the problem front and center, when reports from players of units released explain the problem, when Ketron themselves, or their distributors do NOT come out and in plain, uncouched language say that there WILL be new audio loops on the missing chords, when considerable time and effort has already been expended in their R&D division to mitigate the missing chord issue (that IS the most telling, IMO), how does ANYONE convince themselves that this issue is EVER going to be solved?
Spalding's point is excellent... If you can't tell the difference, why bother, and if you can, it plain don't work. Period.
All this 'wait and see' bull is just spin. Why should ANYONE pay good money to 'wait and see'? Few are ever going to be able to play one before purchase. The warning signs are already public record. It is up to Ketron to SHOW this improvement before anyone should be so carried away as to buy a 'beta' unit. I don't care if this is the US or anywhere else... Why should European customers be subjected to 'incomplete' features when there is no proof whatsoever that they CAN complete them. You would think that, after three friggin' years, if they COULD, they WOULD HAVE...
They can't... It's as simple as that. There isn't one iota of evidence to prove otherwise, and a boatload of very telling evidence that they can't get it to work. They are already selling them in Europe. Shipping them.
I rest my case...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255743 - 02/07/09 04:42 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
|
mc... audio loops in an arranger (as opposed to drum loops, that it doesn't matter what chord gets played) is an entirely new feature that NO-ONE has done successfully in an arranger yet. Or a computer, for that matter. Ketron DEFINITELY have to 'prove' that this feature can work. I'm not one of those saying Ketron is just out of the woodwork. But this has it's downside. Unlike Dom and the MS, they DO have years of surely being able to gauge that if a feature is hyped (for years) as 'revolutionary' and fails to live up to that hype, there is going to be quite a backlash... Now, do me a favor. Take your own advice. Wait until YOU have played an Audya before you leap to it's defense... Play some Latin, play some jazz, heck, play a Beatles tune..! Feed it something other than just kindergarten chords, and THEN tell us it is working fine... You are assuming as much as the rest of us, with MUCH less evidence I HAVE heard it do the simplest of chords. And read from someone that HAS played more complex (if you consider a dim complex... I don't). He has described what happens, and it ain't good. Have you heard it do the complex ones? Why not wait until you can refute what we are inferring (quite reasonably, IMO), before you make assumptions. We are not assuming anything. This is what we have been told it does, and heard Ketron demonstrators avoid those chords like the plague.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255745 - 02/07/09 06:11 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
|
Maj and min (and a few 7ths) as the ONLY chords not replaced by MIDI... That IS kindergarten, as far as I'm concerned. 'Not nice'? 'Not nice' is a feature that only CAN play these chords. I've played almost every kind of music there is. Pop, R&B, jazz, alternative, schlager, polka, ska, reggae, rock, latin, you name it, at one time I've played it. I can't remember ANY of those musics not needing more than maj and min chords. Can you?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255756 - 02/09/09 10:06 AM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4386
Loc: Norway
|
Hmmmm, I don't understand why you people complain about, 5000$ or less! To repeat myself from another tread: When use the current rates of the € lately, the price in musicstores here are set to N.KR. 59.950,- = € 6754 !! The "offer" price is N.Kr 50.900,- who is aprox € 5.733. Tyros 3 are set to "full price" € 4.573 and sell for € 4.043, even as "low" as € 3.367, same as Korg PAX2 Pro in musicstores here, so as I've said before, if the price stand like that we can buy both T3 and PAX2 pro for the same amount of money as one Audya.!!! Still wonder about if the Audya will sell a lot if this going to be the real price here, to be honest i doubt it. Why the high level price? My guess is that they send each item separately fron Italy by Taxi, besides of that the Norwegian custom and taxes are a bit high. GJ
_________________________
Cheers 🥂 GJ _______________________________________________ "Success is not counted by how high you have climbed but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255758 - 02/09/09 11:14 AM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Senior Member
Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
|
Ketron's going to have to seriously consider the price of this new model if they want to sell it. Ketron has always been expensive..., to those who've asked about me owning one. The answer is NO, but I've been fortunate enough to find an owner here and there to try them out.
They DO IN FACT sound great..., always have too. Problem is Ketron has always priced themselves WELL above the competition. With the current economy you don't have to be a financial expert to know that Ketron or ANY smaller keyboard company would be hurting themselves by putting a price tag of $5,000 on a single arranger keyboard.
I've always felt Ketron has produced some great sounding gear.., but over the years looking at their past and current product line.... (not including the Audya at the moment), but strip the sounds/styles away and compare these boards to the competition and what's really left that justifies such a major difference in price????
In this current economy if you want to sell keyboards you better price them according to the competition. Place the price too high and even out of reach for the average TOTL arranger buyer then you've really got yourself a problem and will appear to look VERY VERY GREEDY.
Right now Ketron seems to be banking on the old saying "Build it and they will come". It's not that simple anymore. Build it and yes they WILL come.., but in today's current market you have to build it and PRICE IT RIGHT and they will certainly come.
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#255763 - 02/09/09 01:54 PM
Re: My thoughts on Audya after today.
|
Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14277
Loc: NW Florida
|
Originally posted by gittzit: As on ketron guitat player once told me and I find it very true, if you ever get to the point where you are completely satasfied with what you play anh hear from yourself you are over the hill and basicall thrrough. Amen to that. I worry sometimes about how satisfied so many are with their arrangers on this forum! Mind you, you've got to get a bit worried about Ketron themselves, given that corollary... Are they REALLY satisfied with the way the audio loop feature has worked out? Are they content to let it go out the door unable to play many basic chord types? Are they basically through? I've heard a few of the Jam videos. a) I haven't found one yet where AJ plays more than basic maj min on guitar loop styles, and b) without those, it sounds like an SD-1 or SD-5. Ketron could have just come out with a boatload of new drum loop styles for the SD-1 and you'd have close to an Audya... Ketron bet the farm on this audio loop technology, tried for three years or so to get it to work, found out it's not NEARLY as easy as they thought it would be, and gave up... But they still try to get us to buy this failed product. If you could load the drum loops into an SD-1 or-5, most people would chose that much less expensive option. Somehow, I don't see Ketron doing that! Eventually, most MIDI styles from the latest arranger get backwards ported (at least to the ability of the legacy arranger). Forget that on Ketron's. So, when Ketron come out with an Audya2, don't expect any backwards compatibility. You'll have to BUY it to get access to the styles... I've got E80 styles in my G70. There are T3 styles converted (as well as they can be) for T2. There are PA2X styles out there converted for PA1X. They all sound pretty damn good (other than the new features). But you'll never get an Audya style in an SD-1. The more you look at audio loop styles, the more limitations they have...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|