Addendum:
At the time that Bernard Madoff’s ponzi scheme was uncovered, every newscast defined the term “ponzi scheme” daily for several days running. It seems that the ‘recovery’ plans fit the definition of a “ponzi scheme”.

If you're really interested in who is to blame for the economic meltdown, look in the business section of the current issue of TIME magazine. The article, by Nancy Gibbs, is entitled "25 People to blame". If you don't have access to the article but just want to know who they are, go here:
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877339,00.html

You may notice that Mr. B Hussien Obama is nowhere on the list. Hint: both Bush and Clinton are.

chas

Reality has no bearing on this...
BArney Frank and Chris Dodd absolutely said in no uncertain terms the Government would NOT have to bail out Freddie and Fannie back in early 2000's when McCain partnered with three other Senate Republicans to reform the government’s involvement in lending three years ago, after an attempt by the Bush administration died in Congress two years earlier. McCain spoke forcefully on May 25, 2006, on behalf of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 (via Beltway Snark):

Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were “illusions deliberately and systematically created” by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s former chief executive officer, OFHEO’s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.

The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac–known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs–and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.

In this speech, McCain managed to predict the entire collapse that has forced the government to eat Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, along with Bear Stearns and AIG. He hammers the falsification of financial records to benefit executives, including Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson, both of whom have worked as advisers to Barack Obama this year. McCain also noted the power of their lobbying efforts to forestall oversight over their business practices. He finishes with the warning that proved all too prescient over the past few days and weeks.

When the Republicans wanted to REGULATE FRANK and Dodd fought it and it was defeated...TWICE by Democrats.

Sorry, But this mess was caused by the HOUSING crisis. For the first 6 years of the Bush Presidency the economy was steaming along. People that could NEVER afford a home Bought them. They took loans out on over inflated homes, buying cars on 60 and 72 month contracts.

INDIVIDUALS caused this mess. Not Bush, Not the Banks. The banks were enablers but the buck stops where people sign the dotted line on those contracts and credit card receipts. As usual there is a total lack of personal responsibility and a blaming of those in power for their personal mess and choices. I know. I made a small fortune on the stupidity of others and don't feel bad for them. Extenze is still buying expensive airtime. I APPLAUD those who produce a successful product and become rich (regardless of the claims) You cannot save people from themselves. Nor can you legislate financial wisdom for the masses.

So how does Obama "fix" the last eight years? Buy putting the country even DEEPER in debt giving Hollywood $250 Millionm A Billion for Reids railroad from LA to LAs Vegas??? LOL. Millions Saving some Rat in California.

And where is the TRANSPARENCY the Messiah promised. the 40 hour PUBLIC look at an important Bill before signage? Why has he for the first time in history removed the Census from the Commerce Department as stated in the Constitution and given it to Henrich Himmler Emmanuel. Why has Pelosi shut out the Republican Party after NEWT Gingrich OPENED the same door to the Dems?

I like what Obama is doing! He Like three Democrats who had both Houses before him He will hand the midterms back to the Conservatives. He will be responsible for the new Conservative movement because he forgot 58 Million people did NOT vote for the Messiah and the Independents who gave him the Presidency are a fickle Bunch and do not agree with the "Fairness Doctrine" censoring successful talk show hosts who dare to critique the Messiah.

Freedom of Speech is not fair. It was not meant to be. Criticism is never fair to those criticized. Air America had it's chance. they could not get an audience!

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-13-2009).]

Indeed You can tell who wasn't around in the 70's buy their ignorance and Press generated "comparison." The are buying the Presses and their boy Obama's gloom and Doom. We actually HAD a PRESS in the 70's. They wee not carrying water for any Party.

I don;t think they even can conceptualize 19% interest rates or a 13% inflation rate. The Collapse of the Steel Industry SIX months AFTER they were "bailed out" by another liberal who once again ushered in a more Conservative movement. Carter was out of his league as President...Obama is the same. He is not in office two months and already he has proved himself to be a total amateur and lap dog for Pelosi and Reid.

Reagan TURNED THAT MESS around in TWO years,doing the exact opposite of what they have done here.
They said trickle down economics wouldn't work...of course those who said so and still say so do not realize EVERY TIME THEY GET A CHECK FROM SOMEONE FOR THEIR WORK,PRODUCT, OR SERVICES IS PARTICIPATING IN TRICKLE DOWN Econimics!!!!

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-13-2009).]

You would not want him to succeed if you knew where Pelosi ,Reid and he wanted to take this country.

The economy will turn around. It always does, It will be slower and cost far more due to all the Government jobs that do not produce a profit. Every thing one has. EVERYTHING is the result of a profit made somewhere. Government produces nothing. It can only take from those who do.

I am sure Heinrick Himmler Emanuele will see that the census counts every illegal alien in reapportioning votes in an attempt to remain in power and destroy the two party system in favor of all the "victims" of society before people again wake up and realize they made a mistake like they did in the 70's(never mind the Unconstitutionality of removing the Census from the Commerce Dept.) "Were Democrats, We don't need no stinkin Constitution!!! Wheres your guns...?"

I rest my case. Bush was listed for his inability to get the congress to do their jobs. The democratic congressmen/woman with the oversight duties that could have averted the magnitude of the current crises, were in the pockets of Fanny and Freddy, and the republicans were in the pockets of the Wall Street manipulators.
Pres. Obama will make the list eventually make the list - he is after all, a polotician above all else.
Ciao

DIKI you really need to pick up a book now and then and stay off CNBC which never ran an objective piece in its short life. If a piece does not FIT within their Liberal bias , it will NOT be seen., Period. Thats like someone telling you to listen to Rush Limbaugh, he is going to run an objective piece on Clinton. Wall Street is full of Greedy people. Get OVER it. They trade stock for MONEY!! They skirt the rules. They have a way around every new rule before the rule passes. But in the end as Wall Street goes MAIN STREET goes. The Money Changers are the kings of the hill. like it or not. Class envy will not solve a thing. You can play or pay. Again BARNEY FRANK AND CHRIS DODD FOUGHT REREGULATION!! They LED the charge AGAINST RE REGULATION!!! OBAMA SUED banks on that would NOT LOOSEN their standards for those who could not afford a home.....

The causes for the Depression are nothing like we have today. A run on the banks caused the collapse and the Smoot Hawley Protectionist Act CEMENTED it. Many things were put in place to avoid that ever happening again. And it won't. (even in the worst of the Depression 70% of all workers were still employed) The FDIC is the reason there has not been a run on the banks today. I feel totally safe having money in the bank, and I have FDIC protected money with Capital One. I can sleep at night. But you can bet I will be buying major inflation protection instruments over the next six months.



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-13-2009).]

Bernie Madoff is not President. those who "invested" with him are angry. But THEY made the choice. Just like the guy who could not read a contract when signing for his funny money loan on his new home and the 60 months worth of car payments and all those little signatures on credit card receipts.

When the "old men" die off be assured you will never achieve the standard of living many of us have achieved. You are a victim of society.

Producers PAY your bills. But someday you will seek government ot pay them. But government will have no place to collect the money from. Wall Street will be gone, The greedy banks will be gone, All those who create jobs will send the last of them overseas. Their money will be deposited in forign banks. Those who have will flee like they are doing in California.

Study California Son.....THAT is your future. Good Luck with that. I remember "idealism" I was a child of the 60's. We we PLUCKED off the streets into a REAL WAR...We KNOW and have experienced the difference between a war and an 8 year street fight. 5000 dead on two fronts in 8 years and thats a WAR??? Any war with 5000 US Casualties in 8 years in a VICTORY in my book.....

We lose 5000 AMERICAN kids every year to gunfire within our borders. Wheres the outrage??? LOL .Many of us eventually grew up and became PRODUCERS of goods and services. Many of us are not participating in this "recession" We saved for the rainy day. We knew life was more than having the latest and greatest at the expense of our future security, We SAW what was going on in government and saved for the eventuality . We SOLD our homes to stupid people. We know to sell high and buy low. We did not NEED government to do anything for us but get out of the way..

Yeah go ahead and hate the rich....hate them all the way to the welfare line.
Please grow up , read a few books, put the flowers and dope away and get a stomach for blood....You are going to need it.



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-13-2009).]

Well stated Kingfrog!!

Still a heck of a good thread
Hammer