Talk about limitations!

Try making great music the day you get your MS...

Now that's a REAL limitation

I don't know about Dom's playing skills, but first of all, assuming an arranger is a glorified karaoke machine might point towards HIS experience on them! The arranger only plays as much (or as little) as you want it to. But what you DO have the arranger play (presumably, you actually NEED this, or you might as well get a WS) needs to be convincing, needs to groove, needs to inspire you. And, let's face it, were all the MS owners out there as inspired as the owners of a T3, there WOULD be a deep pool of great user music.

And, as we can tell from the MS factory demos, so far, Dom hasn't even found ONE person that 'gets' his vision of the ideal user... The factory demos don't show totally original music at it's best. If his own demonstrators can't come up with this, how is he supposed to expect that, in OUR hands, it is going to sound amazing?

Simple question... Dom, did you EVER used to be an arranger player? I have my doubts.

sorry i cant agree with any of this. the technology is not what makes the instrument sound good. It is the musicain, this is and always will be the bottom line. Todays arrangers do not in anyway limit what a musician can do musically with a keyboard, only their imagination limits them. An Ms or Pa2X or T2/3 is not going to make anyone make great music. Its simply untrue that a closed system product limits how good your music will sound. Tbe Mediastaion has been around for at least 3 years or more and the Neko and wersi a bit longer i think. Can anyone point me to a demo on these open systems (either user Demo or pro demo )that sounds better than anything produced on the closed system keyboards Demos like yamaha, korg roland , even casio ?

The technical limitations on paper seem significant but in your ear mean squat.

The premise is false.

Last bit. I am not a technician. I understand very little about midi. I dont need to to make good music. When i am in the studio there are technicians to sort out the technical stuff. I show up plug in sing and play and go home. At home i do everything onboard my PA2X so i never need any other external equipment.I write songs and arrangements all on the one piece of equipment. To make great music on an arranger does not need a high degree of technical skill in terms of programing but if you wanted to you could make sounds that would compete very well with any keyboard/workstation synth. But that requires imagination and creativity. The Wersi , Neko, and Medistation dont come shipped with that.....

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 02-15-2009).]

I know for one that teh Wersi is teh most complete keyboard if you get it straight out of the box....

But then the wersi keeps getting more complete every update ....and they are expensive...really expensive.
why?
Well Wersi needs to make a living and when tehy sell you an Arranger that live for 10+ years, they have to make sure that in the end they make just as much money as Yamaha that sold you 4 Tyros moddels over the same periode...

Well...IMHO...the Mediastaion looks very somilar to the software arranger idea I have played with EXTENSIVELY.

PC based, high quality sounds through use of high end sample players (giga etc) VSTi's well supported, full high end sequencer functions, high quality sound card producing very high quality sounds.

Add in the software arranger ( I used Live-Styler) and one or more (2 in my case, stacked like an organ) full function MIDI controllers (or PRO synth's) throw in a 13 pedal MIDI pedalbaord if you like.


AND...Wah La! You have a Mediastation...it's just that Dom put it all together???

One thing (For me) is missing...CONTENT.

Yes, with my setup I can use Yamaha styles ( and now others in V10.5+) BUT, you have to put it all together and setup and programming is not insignificant.

Also, In my case (Not Dom's??) getting enough hardware controllers setup to do all the arranger functions is a pain. It can be done and I was 80% there.

IMHO...What Dom needs to do to make this bird fly is to be able to play Yamaha Styles!!!! Wersi did it, why not Mediastation?? Also, other SW programs play Yamaha styles...Live-Styler etc.

If he had that...i would be 'Katie, Bar The Door'.

Oh, as to the folks in 'community' doing the styles...NFW...it takes lots and lots of Musical talant as well as tech. talent to do that.

Lee

WHO told you that the Live-Styler is NOT working on mediastation??

The Live -Styler under multiple ASIO host work really fine, plus also the possibility to open unlimited others ASIO host in realtime.

The first problem found on Live-Styler is the right Sounbank XG, the XG Yamaha VST work too BUT is not complete of the all missing sounds for the styles.

Second problem ( but is not so a big problem, we made the same for the B4 II) is to choose one ASIO Host Patch and then remapping the all Live-styler midi controllers on the MS side.
I have to check IF the Live-Styler can be totally controlled by API or midi controllers for full cotrol of the all features.
IF there give this possibility and you can also find one decent XG soundbank for the style, we can integrate this engine on MS too.

We have preferred to invest more in one Native Linux audio-Midi SEQ for the full audio streaming and giga support integrated.
Live-styler is only a 8 tracks system without the audio streaming sync possibility.

IF you feel better with this tool integrated on MS, I will try to find one solution, BUT first I will hear one decent XG soundbank.

Domenick are there any Instructional DVD's that would show people how to use all these features on the MS...from beginner to advanced user?.....With all these great features I am sure many wouldn't even know where to begin if they purchased an MS unit.

I guess this would be to much to ask from such a small company....

I would hope not bachus......with such a complex instrument like the MS it is extremely critical to offer the best instructional DVD demonstration in different playing levels to owners so they may get the most from the product they have purchased. It just seems so essential & logical don't you think?

>> 1) He's in the process of making an excellent demo which nobody on an MS has been able to do thus far.. OR: 2) The reason he hasn't responded to this thread is he either had a heart attack and kicked the bucket (rest in peace Fran sorry.. ) OR he already sold the MS (hey Donny! ) and is too ashamed to admit it.. unlike Donny. lol..

Just kidding Fran.. We're still waiting on that demo though.

All the best,
Mike

Dom,
OK, let's go here...now this is my question...is MS an arranger or not?

If it is, then why do I need Live-Styler?
What style fromats do you support? Yamaha?, Korg, Roland, Ketron etc???
We are now talking about the real reasons the SW arranger is not quite there yet! MS is no different as far as I know.

If you only support your own style format...your in trouble. It take TONS of talent to make styles that are good. Thousands of $$$. To support Yamaha styles is your best bet today.
Wersi was very smart to license Yamaha style playing on the OAS system.

As to LS, the 8 tracks you see are for RH and LH sounds. You also have all the style tracks in addition. 8 tracks is more than any HW arranger I know of?

As to Yamaha XG...make a XG sound set from the quaity Giga (or other) sound sets. Put in Megs conversion, meaning if a mega voice is in a style...convert it to the next best non-mega sound )LS does that today). Eventually make your own mega sounds for MS. Not really that difficult for the right person (hire it done?).

The style issue is huge...IMHO to be really successful in the arranger word you will need to solve it. Most of us do not have the talent or time to be making a lot of our own styles for MS. Now & then we like to make a special one. It takes lots of hours.

Lee