Originally posted by Diki:
Have you played the MoXS much yet, Kingfrog? I think you are going to be quite disappointed in it's implementation of SA sounds. They just don't seem nearly as playable as the T3's system...
I spent quite a bit of time on the MoXS6, and really liked quite a few things, but most of it was still the Mega arps for guitar and the loops (although I was devastated at how bad the loop cuing process was, an arranger is a million times easier to work), and the SA stuff left me fairly cold. After the T2, I was expecting MORE, not less...
Oh, and BTW, the Sonic Cell doesn't have a lot to do with the FantomG! You are comparing a cheap module to Roland's flagship. That's like comparing an MU100 with a MoXS (actually, you can't make any significant comparison because Yamaha have basically given up making down-market modules)...
I'd give the G a good workout before you dismiss it so lightly as an oversized Sonic Cell! 
I like the sounds alright BUT I'm am not replacing the T3. I am replacing the RD700 the wife keeps taking to gigs.LOL (I need more keys)and The T3 is a MISERABLE controller for a DAW...MISERABLE Right 1 Right 2 Ugh.....It will be relegated to a scratch pad for songwriting, a Style Generator for pop songs for gigs, some of the best voices will be still used (like I did with modules I bought for three voices) I will use it when we get serious about doing a duo more than a few times a year.. I just can't use it like a WS and I really need that aspect. I was initially hoping the Korg would cover ALL those bases.
I have played on the Fantom at NAMM and GC and love the Sequencer and would really love to have a different manufacturer representation of sounds (foolishly thought the Soncic Cell would give me that, but I bought it used and will sell it back on Ebay and not take a 15% restocking beating) The Fantom does have a GREAT intuitive sequencer but I already have the DAW covered in that regard. The XS has 1Gig of audio recording/sampling as well. What I do like are those 6000 arps. How thy are used in four parts to generate a pattern is something I can get my head around more then trying to so the same using the T3 and the PC. And the EIGHT element voices. Anyone who has worked with VSTI Dimension Pro knows the capability of using THREE element sampled voices. The good thing about the arps on the Motif XS is that they are not frozen and unchangeable. The 8 knobs on the front can modify the ARP as far as swing, quantize value, strength, gate time, velocity., octave range, unmultiply (i.e., 50% speed, 200% speed, etc) and tempo are all controllable. Unlike the T3 which cannot be changed UNTIL the MIDI is in the DAW.
This guy explains it better than I.
I love the workstation concept. The Motif XS is an important development in that the emphasis has shifted from being a sound generator to an inspiration generator. Which workstation to get depends on what you need the synth for.
I think the Motif is close to the Fantom in terms of sound, but it seems to have a different philosophy. On the Motif XS, the sounds are better organized, higher quality (slightly) but there are fewer of them. Roland, as of the Fantom X, gave you a whole bunch of toys (sounds) but they don't always blend well.
But if you are going encyclopedic with sound, the Fantom X, with all the SRX cards, is gonna win. (But note that these SRX cards cannot be used with the newest Fantom G.) The Fantom's sounds overall, according to my subjectivity, have more gusto, but they are more crude and a little rough around the edges at times. They give you more variations, but many are such that you'll never use them. The Motif's sounds, again, overall, strike me as more refined and poised. The Motif builds its variations right in the patch a lot of the time, so you don't need as many. The Motif's sounds seem to work together really well--a nice blend, so to speak. The drawback to the Motif approach with higher quality samples and fewer sounds is that you might need sounds the Motif does not cover. I thought the "ethnic" section was a bit on the light side. While the strings and brass were pretty good overall, I felt the samples needed just a little more bite to carry a virtual orchestra. Yet overall, after having used the Motif XS 6 months, I am still enthralled by the sounds.
Comparing sequencers, Fantom's sequencer is at least a half mile ahead of the Motif. Make no mistake of the value of the Fantom's integrated pads. The Fantom, as far back as their Fantom S had a piano roll editor. The M3 is perhaps the most challenging from a musical point of view with the Karma II generators. Yet there are fewer instruments on the M3 and it has the smallest max sample ram--256MB. (Note: since then Korg has released several banks of samples and presets that can be added to the M3 via onboard and USB memory sticks.)
It also should be kept in mind that The Fantom series and the M3 are expandable to some extent. The Fantom has new expansion cards coming for it's new Fantom G. Korg has its Radias board for the M3. But Yamaha pulled all the ES expansion options out of the XS. You can still get the Motif ES Rack. It will take 2 PLG cards. But don't wait too long, Yamaha just announced a Motif XS Rack, so those ES racks will be blown out soon.
Too bad. The XS would rock with the FM and AN PLG cards inside, but you know, you can't have everything. They indeed took out some of the sound engines that helped keep the Motif competitive all these years. But what they replaced it with is a fun and inspiring way to work, and true integration with your DAW. By getting less, we get more. Uh oh, the Zen masters just woke up and are about to take me away. But before they do, just remember, it only takes ONE good song idea to make a career. I am thrilled to see a machine that inspires musical ideas.
Many comparisons give a slight edge to the Motif unless one is doing a lot of Hip Hop and loop based recording and needs to do all of it on the board and doesn't want to read a manual The Roland is extremely intuitive and has a better presentation.
THEN I have to consider the cost is 10% below Dealer cost as an employee (which is one of the reasons I took the job, I have purchased some high end guitars and gear on those discounts) We don;t carry Roland and I have to seriously ask myself if the Roland is worth over $1000 more,after fighting for a Frankie type discount off MAP on the G8.
I could get the XS7 and would be fine with 76 keys but the cost difference is not that much on a wholesale basis THEN I have to add the Firewire and MLan card on top of that. Since my router is in the Studio and the T3 is on the LAN, the Motif will also be on the LAN for sample loading from my wireless notebook. I sometimes sample cymbals and other percussive stuff using an H2 at the store and bring the SD cards home load them up in the notebook. I will be able to get Woman singing Ahss and oohs etc and use the LAN to load the Samples maybe from the store. A neat thing but certainly not a necessity,Yeah I'm a geek that way. I like technology and use it when available.
Another huge reason which may apply to both is the CONTROL SURFACE for my DAW. The integration with Cubase AI (Damm Yamaha for buying Steiniberg) is amazing. I hope it integrates with SONAR as well but I will give Cubase a run just because. Roland has Cakewalk......
So cost is a huge factor I will have both the T3 and XS8 for less than $5000 which is killer in anyone's book. I will finally have my WORKSTATION and the MIDI issues resolved with the T3 becoming a "module" and organ. Plus prices are going up a lot on the Motif in two weeks.....gotta jump now. Plus I can sell both boards (after the Yamaha agreed to year of ownership and and get most if not all the money back on both of them when the next models are released)
We are going to do that with the Bose System with two years left on the warranty, Sell it take the $700 beating and buy another system.
[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-15-2009).]
Previous Topic
Index