Don exactly....my adopted from Uncle Dave slogan "Music is My real Job" is so true....
& yes my ears are still ringing after we went to that Unbelievably LOUD Blues club a few weeks ago....not to mention the freaking wall of thick smoke that you could hardly see the stage........on the other hand NeilFrog can talk all he wants ...as always I'll make my decision with my ears after "I hear what Ya got"........yapping about things people havn't heard or played or won't post a demo of is the meaningless credibility dropping norm here.....all here say BS at best....thank goodness for the delete button. Now if you'll excuse me I have a "FAT TUESDAY" Mardi Gras gig to perform at today!

I had to put my 2 cents worth in here...
With powered speakers...there is a huge difference in True Monitors and PA speakers.

They are designed for different purposes.
Near fieds monitors are designed for true flat response and for final mastering your music for web or CD's etc. That cost money. I use my Mackie HR824's for that and just standard speakers because they sounds so good.

For stage performace my 824's may not be the right choice. Even though they kick serious butt with the bi-amped 250 watts each (x2).

Based on my Hi-FI experience of many years and keyboad stuff today...it's all about the sound AND how long will they last.

If you like the sound and don't mind taking a risk on how well made they are/how long will they take a pounding...then go for the cheap China pair for $239.00. Your not buying them for near field monitor use.

If they sound good turned way up without distortion, have the freq. response you need and hold up...what a bargain.

Sounds too good to be true to me.

And you want to DEPEND on this quality for proffesional performances?

Maybe they haven't blown up yep...how long have you pounded them?

Lee S.



[This message has been edited by leeboy (edited 02-24-2009).]

Lee, most of you guys missed my point ...posting my findings with this product, that is far from the other poorly made trash (10" stuff being shipped)..I wasn't looking for a Super big sound when I ordered these....but that is exactly what I found...For those that share a desire , with a great price to get something short of amazing....these are the people I wanted to share my experience....

For the other doubters (as I was)..just ignore the 802's....It will not be my loss or any of the new to be owners of the little butt kickers....

They are not PC speakers, and appear to be every bit as durable as any other plastic housed speakers...of course time will tell..

If you look at the workmanship and visible components, you can tell they are not the typical trash items...

Be prepared to hear from the other new owners in a few days.......there is a lot more story to tell...

I have tested the 802's at half volume ( too loud to run wide open)...for approximately 20 hours in 4-5 hour intervals..Neighbors 6 streets over complain about being too loud..

I expected them to shut down with overload, like Mackie did/does, and even Barbetta's...heck even the Yorkvilles, but are quicker to resolve than the aforementioned..I seen the Mackies and Barbettas shut down for over a minute....I think they addressed the normal problem with a new heat sink design....Barbetta went with fan cooled...

For now I am still impressed with the 802's..

I don't have to side step. This has happened to me on numerous occasions over the years in many forums on a lot of gear. I have been vilified for my choices, So be it. I don't get all defensive. I get it. I explain why I made a particular choice. If someone tells me (as you have) my gear is terrible I explain why I choose it. Period. I planted a seed. if they want to cultivate it or let it die, I m not offended either way.

Hell I sell the stuff and still don't offer "opinion" on WHAT"S BETTER. I let the customer decide. I get that all the time. "What guitar should I buy?" What sound system should we Buy" The answer is ALWAYS the same. "Let me set your choices up, explain the differences and some features and YOU DECIDE" I would never tell someone what to buy. I bought a Korg PA2x and sold it. I didn't gush about it, recommend people run out and get one. Same with the T3 and now the XS8. Whats good for me is not good for you. That goes ALL the way up the gear food Chain. Hmmmmm do I buy this $3000 Channel Strip or that one??? Well David Foster uses this one so it MUST be good....BS!

"If Don says they are good. they are good"

There are no "Dons" in my world and there shouldn't be in in anyones. Especially when discussing lower budget gear for live use. I have seen too many people (like me and the PA2x) lead people astray with their credibility then quietly abandon the ship they sailed in gloriously on. I don't do it and yes I will question those who do as do you, in most cases, rightfully so.



I certainly don't have or use elite recording gear. I track though a 1604 (that was used on a previous PA), into a Firebox and now the XS8 which I'm trying to figure out since ASIO will not allow two FW Ports.... I love the Mackie 824s, almost bought them, and they still may be my next monitor. I build my own PCs so they don't cost me anymore than $700 and keep them for at least 4 years. I buy the "sweetspot " components not the TOTL Speed components. I will buy proven quality reputable name brands though. All electronics have a high end low end and the sweet spot, where "bang for the buck" lives.
I bought the XS8 because it cost me less than an XS6, same with the Tyros, otherwise I would be looking at a PSR900 and used ES or Roland WS.




I agree. But my own experience has shown that "producers" and "engineers" at commercial studios will rarely offer positive opinion about anything created on lesser gear. They want you to use their gear. Period Many bash other commercial Studios output as well.

.To genuinely listen in wonderment and compliment (as opposed to patronize) someone's home studio output would be very hard for them to do and justify their expensive gear. I understand that. I gave up trying to please those types a long time ago and concentrated solely on the real target audience. Again I get it.



The bottom line is there are some things that are painfully obvious as you know when you dissed my Alesis Monitors..a few times... and I have to explain EXACTLY why I like them....a few times.LOL I did not take the attitude.."I am me" I am well respected (or should be) therefore they are great and I don't have to explain. LOL

The thing is I DON'T expect others to agree with my gear choices or give them a chance. I don't "sell" my choices, I know better. I REVEAL them. Big difference. I won;t tell a group of people my Monitor Ones are as good as HR824s. LOL Even You have spanked my use of the M1;s on more than one occasion.and I did not even Recommend them!!! LOL

I have never started a thread gushing about Monitors Ones or a Rode NT2 or Joe Meek VCQ1 or Tyros, in a Recording or even a Home Studio Forum. I just won't do it. Anymore then I would recommend everyone go out and buy a Motif XS8 or Tyros. I reveal my choices and IF questioned, I explain why. If another has the SAME needs I may save them some research. We have a pair of Klipsh Pro Media 2.1s on an office use refurbished Dell. I love those things, They would sound great on the T3 I'm sure. Would I consider using them on a gig? Of course not. We would get laughed out of the venue. Hell... The Bose system was a risk in that regard. LOL

There are certain things that affect one's common sensibilities. 8" drivers getting down to 30 HZ at any pace on any chart offends mine. I don;t need any more information .....Alesis Monitor Ones offended yours. Some things simply cannot be just accepted as fact. If its too good to be true ......it usually isn't and all that. And you .I and everyone else are perfectly within our right to question. Thats what forums are about. Not blind acceptance because one has a love affair with someone else's work.

We didn't buy a Yamaha acoustic because Nora Jones plays one....



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-24-2009).]

Fran,
Yes...I see where you are comming from.

If I was in the market for a new set of speakers (not true monitors) I might just get a pair and see. After all if they go all to heck in a few years...at that price trow them out and get something else.

Did you need a new pair of speakers or was this just a curiousity?

Lee S.

You are right. We don't take the arranger out. But we do play live and the expectations are high from both the clients and the performance is reflected soley through the PA we choose.

When someone claims they saw "the numbers on a $200 pair of PA speakers" and bought them based on the numbers (30HZ on 8" drivers?) then says you cannot depend on the "numbers" you have to "hear" them...Well who can blame the less connected and emotional to question that. From a purely technical standpoint if nothing else? I research based on the numbers. Credible professional gear is honestly speced out. Not so great gears uses Peak Power ratings and unreal freq response claims..... without the essential curves. I am suspect...sorry.

Arranger players are a different breed. I realize that. I have never actually SEEN one in performance so I probably don't understand the culture and choices.

However live performing is live performing. Live performing is live performing...... whether on a Roland Rd700 or Yamaha PSR413. IN that regard I do share some cultural similarities as a performer. I expect the best possible sound to reach the audience. I don't do it for my living anymore which is not to say I won't ever. I enjoy selling the gear now and going out when I get the bug. Some day I may have to do it again.

I understand not carrying a lot around. My wife is 43 5'2 100lbs and as of three years ago was carrying around a Mackie 802S, two JBL MR15s and the associated crap, and an RD700 by herself!! I get the down sizing thing. But she and I still wanted the best quality she could get and was easy to lug around. I decided she should give the Bose a try. She was stuck in her "Stereo paradigm" and the "dual box paradigm". But in the end The Bose System filled the bill on the PA side. A Casio Previa 320 on the 88 side for stair gigs and she even started playing guitar three years ago to take some guitar only gigs as well. to further lighten the load.

We use the Arranger in the SAME way everyone does...BACKING tracks. We just don't use it live. We can't repeat choruses.....LOL.

She would rather give that flexibility up in favor of two fisted keyboard playing on weighted keys with a band whether live or recorded. Thats all she has ever done and is comfortable with. I am indeed more inclined to take an arranger out if I were to do my own thing full time than she is. She won't think of it.

However I would still use the best PA gear possible and not accept less because I have to have a stereo field and therefore need something that offers that and is light at the same time.

Then again, most of my live performance BG was entirely in mono with monitor mixers and great reliable gear. I don't have this aversion to mono. I do appreciate professional, bullet proof, reliable and honestly spec'd and now light.... even if it cost a little more. Its part of our income. We try not to cut too many corners. The technology is out there that accommodate all of our requirements..... for now and keeps getting better.




[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-24-2009).]

Lee, like most of us I don't "need" anything..we just think we do..

I looked for something to use in my home studio..nothing high powered or large...something other than the Altec Lansing PC speaker system...

I was going to grab a pair of Edirol MA's but I knew they wouldn't make me content...I went shopping...looked at the Roland street cube and Mini Stereo Cube...They did sound good, but only 5 watts....durability was a concern...

I looked at the Mackie 150 , much more power but lacked the sound the Roland stereo cubes had...Likewise the TC-Helicon 300...I left undecided...Went on EBAY and the 802's caught my eye..I read reviews about OFD (only Factory Direct) and found a very favorable report...OFD, should not be confused with Podium Speaker Co...Podium makes a different selection of Hi Fi equipment, where OFD has a more select line..

To make a shorter story, I read the specs, and laughed a bit...after all I owned all the Name Brand models and none spec out the way they did....Price was so in expensive I just ordered..as one reviewer said..."if you aren't happy , you can double your money at a garage sale"..

When they arrived..the first thing I noticed, they were packed right..opened the carton..and they looked great...very finished looking...and they had substantial weight (18 pounds each)...I knew they were not going to be toys...

I set one up and played an MP3 thru it...wow great fullness..put the unit on the floor and pumped it up..WOW the bass was really there..no splatting like even the $3-400 stuff does....I quickly opened the other carton..(they ship individually)...set up stereo, one sitting on top of a Roland 100 Cube , and the other on the floor....I ran my G70 into the pair..I instantly loved the sound I heard..In the past I did not like my G70 thru my Roland 60 or the Traynor K4..they both had to be EQ'd ..right off the bat...The 802's were excellent just the way they were laid out...I had the mid EQ set in 12 noon[as in flat) and the volume at unity (Noon)...I then set them equally in height and spaced about 4 feet apart[in my studio room).. The tone an separation was great..I started my torture test..Using the master EQ and compression on my G70....the Master EQ and compression can rattle just about any speaker...Not only did they handle this,,they really sounded "dance" music capable...after a couple hours..I posted my results here...and the rest is history.....I also know the company has sold a lot of units because of this thread...

Cool.

So, my friend, could you answer me this:

Have you tried the single Bose system and then compared it to the sound of two Bose systems in stereo?

I have tried both setups, and the difference is quite startling....actually more like an "ear-opening" experience...really made the Tyros3, the S900 and and even an old Roland E-86 spring to life, and to my ears, the improvement was more than the sum of the parts.

That is why I said I would consider using two Bose systems in stereo, regardless of the fact it costs quite a bit, and it is a bit more fiddly to set up...it still is light as it comes apart.

Plus, you only need to buy one great PA system (plus it needs no monitors) as opposed to a new arranger every three or four years(or more often for some)

Try two Bose systems in stereo and tell me you don't hear a huge difference...just don't let your wife try it...or you'll be using that setup from now on.

I would not order the system Fran speaks of without actually trying them out myself...I rarely buy on word of mouth.

I did try the Logitech 5500 computer speakers...they are awesome, but in order to use "live" I feel one must do some modifications to the wiring setup, as it tends to be very cluttered...I think the mods are on PSR-Tutorial.

I use a pair of over 20 year old Yamaha MS60 powered monitors...over $700 Cdn each when I got them, and worth every penny as the exemplary reliability and the, new at the time, "Active Servo Technology" have made them perfect for my restaurant gigs...plus they are less than 30 lbs each.

If I buy a "big" system, it just may turn out to be a double Bose system....wouldn't need anything else for many years and it would easily pay for itself over time.

I just wouldn't buy a single one.

Ian

[B]
".....and the performance is reflected soley through the PA we choose. " ...


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-24-2009).][/QUOTE]

So when I get a compliment at one of MY gigs where I've used the Z-5500, it's because PA system made me sound good, right ... just asking ...

t.

I am just surprised that anyone can take such an entrenched position without even hearing the speakers. I mean that makes no sense......I mean a brand name is simply that...a brand name...Does the brand name tell you that what your ears are hearing is quality ??? Does the brand name tell you that after 5 years a product will still with stand on the road use (ask anyone that had a Korg triton extreme about how sturdy the casing is and thats a pro keyboard).

At least be willing to accept that the principal that you get what you pay for is simply a principal and not a rule....