You know Fran and his women - I think he has a deal going with Sasha

Still is hard to believe that these $200 monitors will sound like $1500 450s

Jim..now you are stretching my words...I said they can kick the 350's butt..

but, you be sure to let us know how close they compare to the twice the power 450's..

he must be a "REDNECK"

Their website:
http://www.onlyfactorydirect.net/servlet/Categories?category=Pro+Audio%3ADJ%2C+PA%2C+Band+%26+Karaoke+Speakers

I do use the Tyros at home (hardly pro recordings) but I just bought a Motif XS becasue as much as I tried the Tyros CANNOT cover all the bases I need covered in a home Studio by any stretch of the imagination. I tried but its simply not a DAW friendly WS
Its a great style and SMF playback machine. The Motif is built specifically to interface with a DAW. Transport and fader controls integrated into the board. LAN.Firewire and digital outputs.
We will still usethe T3 for certain voices and to record back up popular music tracks in a hurry, but it will no longer be the centerpiece and is now instead a fantastic sound module and Style Generator.

ONce I get to know the XS in and out which will take about 6 months I probably will sell the T3. I have to keep it a year per my agreement with Yamaha. Then I will sell it for $2500 and stick with the XS8 and VSTIs to fill the hole. (after archiving as many MIDI styles as possible)

Yes I am beginning to understand the crowd here and their curious choices. I also understand why there aren't any OMBs using Arrangers here in one of the largest OMB capitals of the east coast The avg demographic who has purchase the 6 S900s I sold this year are 55- 60 and are PT players who do play retirement homes and very small local pubs and one guy plays the Moose Lodge on occasion. I did sell a Tyros 3 today to a blind guy coming from an S750. He was amazing to watch get around on the t3. Came all the way down from Virginia to SEE ONE!!! Apparently no one is carrying them in stock.

Dual Mono is routinely used in major shows and events. That is where both sides of the Hall are INDEPENDANTLY amplified in bridged mode in Mono using discrete R/L out of the board.

The dual Bose systems on the Casino boat are in 11-1 stereo, but they are only 10' apart. I sold them the system but recommended they only buy one Mod II instead of two Mod Is. The OMB player who bought the system for them insisted they be in Stereo. He has since been let go. (Apparently Stereo did not help his act).

Call me crazy but I cannot come to grips with a Logitech Z 5500 Digital PC multimedia home theater speaker system being used at a Club here, or anywhere. Its a Computer speaker system for gamers. At the very minimum I sell the StagePas 300 Systems to the players who play the retirement home circuit here.

IM glad you find stereo to be of such great help and Logitech Speaker systems as well. If people can make a living with a speaker system like that all the power to them.

The difference is Im using mine BEFORE the public hears the result and I have second and third chances to check my mixes.

Advise me to order a a pair of $200 powered 8" or even 10" speakers off Ebay to play live in front of a clients customers based solely on the opinion of someone in an Internet forum (where Logitech is considered a viable professional PA system) and I am not running to Ebay. The difference is one I get to hear BEFORE anyone else does. The other IS heard by everyone else. Thats it purpose. Diki people here are seriously glowing about LOGITECH Computer Speakers as a professional PA System!!!. How the hell could I not question nor be confused about opinion on anything without digging deeper??

Audio recording forums are the worse for gear suggestions. Unless one uses a manley this or U87 that they are not relavant. I understand. But I also understand their market and mine. They make recordings for the sake of the RECORDING. I record music not gear. There is a point of no return in Audio world. People buy $23,000 Magico V3 hiFi Speakers. Surely My Rode NT2 and VCQ1 are Hasbro products next to a vintage U87 and Amek Channel in a Box preamp. I get it.
I certainly would not recommend 10 year old Alesis Monitor Ones to anyone in a Recording forum who is looking for monitor speakers. I wouldn't recommend them here!! There are plenty of Studio monitors that would blow them away for "new ears" and not require as much a "listening learning curve." They are good for me ONLY because I KNOW them. I know how to EQ a mix through them. I know their weaknesses and DON'T compensate for them.

When they are finally trashed I will have to start all over with another brand and I don't look forward to that day. Believe it or not I once bought a pair of 824s and EQ'd the Alesis to match them (with a Sub) I decided the difference was not worth $900 and took the Mackies back. My system was set up to match the Mackies and they came close enough.

I nearly always track a professional CD close to what I'm mixing when I am mixing as well. If I could get my EQ to match the $100K recording of Sting or whatever playing through the same speakers I was happy and "learned the monitor's "quirks" as well. After awhile I can trust my ears and the monitors. Anyone can do this with a pair of Auratones or RS Minimus 7's.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-23-2009).]

I bought a StagePas 300 system. And I took it back the next day. It comes nowhere close to sounding as good as even the Logitech Z2200, much less the bigger one--an informed opinion from someone who has owned 'em all, but just an opinion. Also the effects in it were limited and primitive at best.
When I had my little night club, I had two biamped 15 inch Peaveys, with two Toa 18 inch subs and monitors for each side. Since then I've gotten a lot smarter. With today's technology that sort of overkill is just not necessary and not economical. Even with all that power, I didn't play too loud.
As DNJ says, playing music is my "real" job, thanks to arrangers. All the guys working at the local music store look down their noses at me. That's the main reason I don't buy much from them any more. As a rule, they have no idea what arrangers are capable of doing.
Imagine, I'm rarely invited to their Jam nights where they all get together and play for nothing at local clubs (because they can't get a paying job I suppose). Doesn't matter because I'm working five nights a week anyway, and that's the last thing I want to do on Sunday and Monday.
When DNJ was here, we went out to one on Monday night. We stayed maybe four minutes because the music was so loud it was almost painful. I can only assume it's because they damaged their hearing long ago and don't know any better. The point is, in their minds they are pros and I'm stupid because I have a toy keyboard.
This doesn't have much to do with the thread, but that seems to be the norm these days.
The older I get the less tolerance for ignorance I seem to have. Before anyone gets his feelings hurt, ignorance is the lack of knowledge and doesn't mean you are not smart or well-informed in other areas.
I just don't see the point in blindly criticizing things you haven't tried or even heard.
I wouldn't play a big job with a Z2200, and to be honest I haven't used them since getting the Bose, but there are jobs for which they are perfect. Also, those type of jobs seem to pay way more than the ones where you have to play really loud.
I think I'll order a couple of "Fran's" speakers just because they are cheap. If they aren't any good, I'll sell them to DNJ and he can put them on Ebay after a couple of days, or trade them to Fran and put whatever he gets in trade on Ebay after a couple of days.
DonM

Yeah everybody has different ears and concepts of what is good for them for the jobs they take.

I would not expect anyone to purchase anything because I say its good....nor would I do the same on another's word.

The Stagepas isn't for everyone. I sell them and Passports as portable systems but outside of the 500 watt Fender Passport I don't like them either. We personally use the Bose System for everything large and small outside and in. No need for a baby system. Thats the beauty of the Bose for us.

But all I do is demo stuff all day, The customer makes the choice from there. A lot of musical gear cannot and should not be "sold". If a product cannot sell itself, it's Thank you next. Thats how I do business. I show them and answer questions. I don't "sell" anything. Good products do sell themselves. Bad products need to be "sold". When a manufacturer rep has to tell me HOW to sell their product I don't want it. I can take 30 minutes to sell a VOX amp at 25 points or just turn on a Line 6 Jamman, Demo it for 5 minutes and walk away and make more margin for the store.

Same with the PA50 vs the S700
Turn them on and play show and tell and let the customer decide. The Yamaha usually wins on ease of use alone. The secret is KNOW thy products. I don't know jack about Bass guitars, so I call the staff bass player. The acoustic keyboard guy called me over to demo the T3 today. We all work well and since we don't work solely on commission (ok maybe 3-5%) we can hand over a customer without worrying about losing $20 commission on the deal. Its more important the customer speaks with someone who can answer their questions and speak their language.

You kind of sidestepped my question, there, Kingfrog...

What WOULD you say to someone that said 'I don't need to listen to a cheap pair of Alesis monitors (or a cheap NT2 mike, or a 'home' keyboard like the T3 ) to be able to tell what it sounds like"?

And can you take your own advice? You sure can dish it out.

The fact of the matter is that I'm NOT a 'studio elite' equipment guy. My monitors are modest (824's), NOT über-expensive B&W's or things like that. My mixer is a simple Mackie 1402. My audio interface is a simple MOTU 2408, my keyboards no more advanced than you. Yes, I use some of that high end stuff at the studio, and yes, it DOES make a difference, but not a big enough one that I GOT to have it! My computer is stone age compared to yours. You probably don't want to listen to me tell YOU that you don't need a computer that good to make great music! You need what you need.

You need different tools for different jobs. At the studio, we make product for major labels. They expect it to sound as good as it can. Not simply 'good enough' for a demo, or a bar band CD. At home, I do mostly pre-production and virtual production work, so my needs are more modest. I really don't get too worked up about the gearheads and tech slutz! SOME of them need it for what they do, some don't. I know I don't! But it IS nice to play with when you get the opportunity!

So lighten up a hair. I've got nothing bad to say about your equipment. Don't get so defensive... I was merely trying to point out (as you sidestepped) the inherent contradiction in defending YOUR choice of gear that others would dismiss out of hand, yet dismissing out of hand the decisions of others. You gave those Alesis monitors a chance, when many others wouldn't. So why not give the Podium's a chance..? We are not saying you got to BUY them

Just give them a chance. As you would expect from others about YOUR gear choices.

I'm thrilled you are beginning to understand the "crowd" here and their "curious" choices...

I think why you misunderstand the choices of what most arranger players use here, is because, basically, you are not an arranger player...at least not one who plays "live".

Sure, you might use a T3 for making backing tracks for a CD that your wife plays piano and sings over....but you don't use an arranger "live" like most of us here (not that there's anything wrong with that, but it may explain why it is a little difficult for you to get your head around why we choose the gear we do.

I use an S900 (as do a lot of arranger players in my neck of the woods)...it's inexpensive, reliable, and I can make as much quality music (or more) with it as someone can on a more expensive and/or heavier T3, PA2xPRO or G70.

I make my living playing an arranger, so I am careful with my investment in gear, both from a monetary point of view(I have to make good profit) and from a realistic standpoint( where I can comfortably transport it by myself).

Most of us here on SZ who play arrangers "live"...Fran, Donny, Diki, Gary D, DonM,(to name just a few) are always looking for something lighter, more efficient, and easier to transport and set up( as well as sound great) and when one of us discovers, like Fran did in this case, a easier way to do things, it stirs our interest...the Z5500 stirred a lot of interest several months ago...and so on.

Some of us get the impression (from your posts and your attitude) that you feel you are not on the same path/level as many of us...perhaps that is true.


. It's not that important to me what your perspective is (athough I do read your posts to be fair)...you and I see things very differently in regards to playing/using arrangers (and sound systems) and I really can't relate to your views...if you played "live" and lugged around gear on your own, and worked in the trenches like most of us here, perhaps I would take your advice/comments more seriously....but I can't, and neither can many others who are in the same position as I.

Doesn't make you dumb, or not wanted, or a "gear snob", but it does serve to point out just how little you know about my world (and that of many others here)and the business of playing solo (or OMB, if you prefer).

I guess you do use an arranger in a curious way to most of us, yet we give you lots of slack about your gear choices...why not return the favor?

Ian