[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irishacts:
[B]Hi LIONSTRACS.

quote:In this situation setup the system was sucking the 54% of the CPU

Hmmm.... I had to devote a dual core laptop to run Pianoteq all on it's own because the second you hit that sustain pedal, the poly goes well over 100 notes often when playing.

How you can compare one Laptop CUP VS a desktop CPU and with the Linux audio Low latency RT kernel? Linux RT kernel is more optimized as the windows OS, here we dont have some issue as the windows have, on MS all running standard at 2.9ms latency.
----------------------

quote:If you don't like the MS styles, this is another argument, but for the souns sets, no another keyboards is able to make what the MS can offer.

Can you explain what you mean here exactly. What has the mediastation over the Neko ?.

Are you there kidding and blind or what? Please..better that we don't touch this key or you make me really laugh....
-----------------------------------------

quote:When then will be available the new Windows Karma application

There is no such application. It has been requested by many and Stephen does have the interest in writing it at some point, but as of now it does not even exist.

Are you totally sure 100%?? On Openlabs Stephen shown the new windows Karma OS that is running at stand alone version, for sure is one ASIO application too.
Do you think that Stephen developed this all new Karma OS only for the Openlabs keyboards that cost 6.900 USD? Just wait and then for sure will be available the same OS for the desktop PC too..here all depend of money..businness...
-----------------------------------

quote:Then we have also the Oasys Karma on MS full midi controlled like the Openlabs.

You still won't have an OASYS because the Mediastation has no way of producing any of the sounds the OASYS can. The mediastation depends on being able to load up other peoples software and everything in the OASYS right now cannot be purchased anywhere.

IF wil be available or not the Karma under windows, do you think that the MS user with the Multiple ASIO host patch are still interested on Oasys sounds??
Maybe you have forget what the MS can load and play in realtime: http://www.lionstracs.com/store/information_pages.php?info_id=24

with the Qranger we are able to record UNLIMITED audio-midi tracks, chords layer, giga and ASIO host.
with a nice SEQ sequence and the Omnisphere: http://www.lionstracs.com/store//images/2009/omni34.jpg
is possible make 100 times more as the Oasys, more Simple and fast.
Open Qranger and use the 10 ASIO Hsot midi outs, Giga support and unlimuted audio streaming tracks with effects...what yu wil make with only 16 tracks recorder?

then the last: the MS X-76 expanded cost officially ONLY 2600 euro..
What cost one Oasys? audya? Tyros3? Motif?
For 5000-7000 euro keyboards I will pretend the ProTools HD hardware features with Logic Audio integrated!

[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 02-24-2009).]

James, just look at software interface difference: http://www.openlabs.com/mimik.html

really nothing to compete with the Extreme sample converter: http://www.extranslator.com/screens.html


and just one of the lots available on MS:


can you see some difference?
remove from openlabs the only application that maybe they have developed, what remain native on Openlabs keyboards?
only the Case...
Just only one software question: they have 2 MIC Inputs, how you control the Mic inputs in live mode if no one MIC interface is available? do you use Reaper or Forte??

so please...never compare again the MS VS Miko/Neko..

Where did I compare ?.
I simply said that I had to dedicated a laptop to Pianoteq because the second you start using the sustain pedal the poly count goes well over 100 notes when playing normally.

You even said it yourself that Pianoteq sucks up a LOT of CPU.

The reason why I dedicated the laptop to Pianoteq was that my desktop which is a Quad Core Intel Extreme with 8GB of Dominator RAM didn't run Pianoteq as smooth as I would like when running other software. I would imagine that my desktop far exceeds your mediastation.



Sigh ....!!!! Straight to calling me names and completely avoiding the question. Why do talk to people like that ?. I've seen you do this so many times. You get angry straight away when someone asks you to explain something.

Look, you made a comment saying that the media has sound sets no other keyboard is able to make, all I'm asking you to do is explain what you mean ?.

Have you developed a new synthesis engine, or are you simply trying to lay claim to the fact you can install third party software to produce all sorts of sounds ?.

If all you have is third part sounds, then what's stopping any Neko or PC user form doing the exact same thing ?.



Yes he has, that's why it's called KARMA OL (OPEN LABS). You also don't seem to be aware of fact that his software checks to see what it's connected to and if the wrong device is found, it shuts down.



Every single synth engine that the OASYS has is available at the same time. No loading times, and instant switching between sounds and entire engines. You can even mix them all together at the same time if you want. Each engine is totally integrated into every other system of the OASYS including KARMA.

The OASYS is a musical instrument you can switch on an access every system without loading a single thing to memory.

The link you gave does contain an impressive list of software, but I don't need a mediastation to run that. Anyone can do that right now with a PC.



The words unlimited an Omnisphere together make me giggle. You do realise who much load that places on the CPU ?.

Fantastic software, but you need an monster of a PC to run it.



Which is fantastic value, and why I have been following your posts for a very long time now. I'm interested in it, but not as a replacement for anything I already own. For me I need to figure out why I should buy it rather than just using a PC.

You don't have your own synthesis engines or anything sound wise that makes the mediastation unique as far as I can see.

Regards
James.

Hi LIONSTRACS .



I totally agree with you 100%.
I use nothing but Extreme Sample Converter on my PC for all my sound design.



Karsyn, mfusion and RiFF



If I do that for you, will you also promise to stop comparing the Mediastation to everything else on the market saying it's better ?.

The mediastation is a great produce but it needs to stand on it's own now and you need to find what it is that's unique about it and push that. Not compare it to other products.

Regards.
James.

good reply..
then let me see if with your monster PC are able to setup one simple system setup and make live gigs as one standard keyboard.
let me soo how you play some audio-midi players, play styles and the all sounds over it.

just a simple ready setup system like you have to play one simple arranger-synth keyboard.
then make a simple video demo ( i dont care about the sound quality) and show us how you can play all and if the most time of your hands/finger are over the keyboard or always to use the mouse/PC keyboard...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlADLhdqffE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ooKPAGhLeg

have fun

this is the point!
I can not find another keyb WS that can have at least the 10% features as the MS has, for that the MS still remain unique worldwide.

Now will reply Diki for sure...

this is the second point:
we have the own DSP ROM dream, the bigger mistake that we made is one prefessional WS...but now is inside and we leave..
I will never and ever fight again with my MS user clients about the sounds.

why I have to develope own lionstracs sounds and then all you there only criticize?

i can try to make the best organ sounds as possible and then you there will reply: the B4 II is Much better...
I can try to make symth sounds..then you there reply: Oasys sounds is better, Omnisphere are much better...
so..this will be NO end and we have to invest money for sounds developement??

the MS concept is to make working good the system and allow the user to Install, Load and play the all sounds, new sounds, VST, Giga that they want!
you dont like the Pianoteq 3? then load another VST or a Giga piano garritan.
You dont like the embedded drums?? install addictive drums..
why we have to fight for the sounds quality?
Leave the user to choose what they want, if they dont like this new sounds wil be Never the fault of the keyboard manufacture.

do you have understand the concept?

James,

There is quite a difference between the OpenLabs Miko/Neko products and the Lionstracs Mediastations. The OS being of course the major difference and the major advantage, I believe, for the Mediastation. The level of customization that Domenik has achieved with his GUI is extremely impressive.

OpenLabs on the other hand has taken Windows XP and tweaked it for audio. Disabling windows processes not necessary for audio production. They have a great product as well. It is a very good replacement for a midi keyboard controller and a PC all packaged together in one case.

But that is where the similarities end. They can customize the Shell and tweak settings but they cannot change the basic code of Windows XP, as it is a closed OS. The basic code for Linux, however is not only available for rewriting, the whole concept was designed for it.

Linux can be taken and made to do almost anything you can imagine. And Domenik has made great use of it. He can literally write a few lines of code to cause any button, knob, or slider on his front panel (or input from his touchscreen) to make any process in the Linux os happen.
With Windows you are limited to what ever features the software allows you to remap only.

The OpenLabs products use a custom version of 'Forte' called 'Karsyn' as a rack to load vst's. Disclaimer: I have no info about the features of the new application "Riff" on Open Labs products. The Mediastation manages vst's with the OS, having Vst support and Asio support written into the basecode along with the Add/Sub synth the DreamChip sounds and Giga Sounds ect...

Giga Sounds originally designed for Tascam's GigaStudio are handled with Linux Sampler. They are manipulated on the MSX as easily as Rom sounds are on standard keyboards.

This is a quote from OpenLabs FAQ page about the use of GigaStudio,

"Can I run GigaStudio on my Open Labs product?
GigaStudio is an amazing application that is perfectly suited for Open Labs™ hardware. It operates at the kernel level of the operating system which gives the end user amazing performance at extremely low latency. However, due to the nature of its performance, GigaStudio can cause system instability when installed with other audio applications. If you wish to install GigaStudio we recommend uninstalling all unrelated audio applications and use your NeKo as a "Giga DAW."

The MSX boots up playing Giga sounds straight from the factory.

While I have not spent a lot of time playing the Korg Oasys, I think that If I understand its design, this oversimplified analogy fits.

1)The Oasys has a linux computer inside but is completely closed to the user and it appears like an embedded keyboard's GUI only.

2) The OpenLabs Miko/Neko is windows PC with all the advantages and disadvantages the any other Win PC has, you load the software you want.

3) The Mediastation is the best, imo, of both approaches combined; the GUI of an embedded system ( very easy to use, no pc knowledge required, like any other keyboard). And all the power and flexibilty of the PC system where you can add any vst you like.

For the person who doesn't like computers you can turn on the Mediastation and play several types/ libraries of sounds and never deal with its computer functions. For the person who is technologically inclined, they can load software to their heart's content and setup very complicated split layers using multiple sound engines and software from numerous sources and save them all into presets for instant recall.You get the best of both world's.

If Korg had designed the Oasys to allow users to load any 3rd party software they like into the keyboard and mix these sounds with its internal Korg sounds then the Oasys would have really been amazing. Then perhaps they could have added the Pa2x arranger to it also. Who would not be interested in it then? And since it based on linux, this should all be possible for them to do.

I would assume however that their decision to limit it has more to do with marketing. If not careful a company could really cut into all of their future sales by designing a 'do it all' future proofed keyboard.

The Neko/Miko, Oasys, and Mediastation are all 3 great products with varying pros and cons; but I really believe the future of where all keyboards will eventually go. Its up to the keyboard manufacturers to balance ease of use with power.

Richard

Hi LIONSTRACS

Ok I think I'm starting to see what your talking about here.

So to clarify, since you have no interest in devloping your own systhesis engines, is the mediastation main goal then to be a optimised Linux computer in a keyboard controller and to be as a platform to load other peoples software ?.

If so what edge does the mediastation have over a PC or a Neko because they do all that too ?

Have you developed something that brings all this together.

Regards
James.

Hi richard.

Thank you for your reply.

The Linux audio optimisations really don't sell the idea enough for me but you did hit on something I've been trying to drag from Dom.



This sounds like the most single important feature and I'd like to know what this is and what it can do for me.

I'm happy to dig around any OS, but when I'm working and I have a client beside me, I don't want to see anything but lots of sounds and a sequencer.

I would like to be able to switch on and start writing without having to deal with loading software or dealing with any technical issues common with an DAW.

Does the mediastation make all that disappear and become seamless ?.

Regards.
James.

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 02-24-2009).]