I don't get it? With a controller and a laptop, you could produce whatever you could produce with the Mediastation. So why the clammer for a piece of music created on the MS? Unless that piece of music involved MS STYLES, or the MS had really crappy hardware (A/D,D/A converters, clock, DSP, etc.), I don't know what it would prove. Maybe I'm just dense (come to think of it, I probably am). Sooooo, if what we really mean is that we want to hear something that was created using MS STYLES, then we should say so. .....except that we already know that the native MS styles aren't uh, exceptional. Sure sounds like much ado about nothing, to me.

We already know that the MS is for a niche market. If you want an innovative, new, and powerful tool for creating music, the MS 'might' be for you; if you're looking for a tried and proven TOTL ARRANGER, you should probably look elsewhere. I've said from the beginning that I think that the MS sounds like a great workstation with some 'arranger' functions. When you look at it like that, what's not to like. Wish I had one (fully loaded) right now in place of my Fantom G7......I think.

chas

Just about every arranger made has got supporters and detractors on this forum. The difference is that only the MS (and to a certain extent, Wersi) owners are unwilling to post evidence of them enjoying their keyboard, and actually recording some music made on it.

People of quite limited playing skills (not that everybody that posts is in that category, don't get me wrong!) are able to make music that sounds very polished on those arrangers. After all, that's kind of the POINT of an arranger, isn't it? If you HAVE to make everything from scratch, you would have got a WS, wouldn't you? But mysteriously, the MS remains unrepresented.

I do not buy the shrinking violet line... Let's face it, if anyone HAD made some good, polished music on the MS, wouldn't it be more likely that they WOULD post it (somewhere, anywhere, it doesn't matter about it being here... we'll find it!) just to get 'in your face' with the skeptics? That's what supporters of OTHER arrangers have no problem doing...

Someone says that the G70 (or any TOTL arranger) sounds rubbish OOTB, someone posts some music and goes 'No it doesn't! Listen to THIS This is OOTB' and the discussion continues. NOT 'No, it's not rubbish, but I'm NOT going to provide any evidence of my opinion. You should simply trust me, I know what I'm talking about '

Well, we ALL know what we are talking about...

Some music is the only way to illustrate your point (or the complete absence of it, in my case). If it's fun to play, if you can easily make polished music on it, why WOULD you not post here?

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 02-25-2009).]

Are members even aware that user demos were put up for synthzone members to listen
to?

These were demos by satisfied MS users.


Do you remember the reaction to them?

So if I now go and get an MS, knowing all the negative discussion by persons who have not even seen let alone heard in person a MS, and seeing the reaction by such persons to satisfied user demos, why on earth would I put up a demo for such persons?

I know what will happen; I put up the demo that I like and then I will hear from members here that you suck.

If I like and my audience likes what I produce on the MS that is all that matters. I am not going to put a demo up so that my work would be belittled.

Remember I am not saying this for saying sake, but this has happened on this forum when MS users put up demos.

First of all genesys... If you put up a bad sounding demo, it won't be YOU that some will say sucks. It'll be your MS . Perhaps to you, they are one and the same, but personally, I can tell the difference.

You don't have the slightest respect for anyone here, do you..? Personally, I think that MOST of us here can tell the difference between a great player on a poor arranger, and a poor player on a great arranger. Make it easy on yourself, if worried about your playing skills. Just record the arranger side. Don't play a solo. But accusing us blindly of hostility to you and your music doesn't show much expectation of fairness. As evidenced by the Audya demos (and just about everything else I've heard that WAS any good), it makes no difference to me whether I like an arranger or not. If I hear good music (even from just the arranger side), I am more than willing to acknowledge it.

Secondly, about the only thing that I heard of a quality that rivals (but not exceeds) a TOTL Big3 arranger was that Klezmer piece I heard a long time ago (and that wasn't a style). Please point me to something that equals (we won't get picky and insist it betters a T3/PA2, etc., despite you all claiming the keyboard IS) any of the top arrangers for OOTB quality and polished sound...

I've tried to listen to everything I can find on an MS. YouTube, links from here, you name it. So far, regardless of the player, I haven't heard anything I can relate to yet. I am not a big Serbian music fan No doubt, you have your own personal favorite web clip. Why not post it now for discussion? Or link to the thread where it was discussed before. Maybe I'm getting old and forgetful, but for the life of me, I still can't remember anything Western (not C&W ) that even equaled a Big3 TOTL, let alone bettered it.

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 02-25-2009).]

Wow Chas, that is absolutely the most ‘common sense’ statement I have read from anyone on this forum about the Mediastation. You summed up the whole question that I’ve been wondering,”What is the point in all the clammering for more demos?” Since the same software instrument will sound exactly the same on anyone’s computer as it does on the MSX, and since we’ve already said that the styles library are not yet the equivalent of the other TOTL arrangers, then what point does anyone expect a MSX owner to attempt to prove?

A person is not required to submit a demo in order to be a keyboard owner. As a matter of fact I doubt more than 2 or 3 percent of all keyboard owners ever post a demo on a forum such as this one. There just happens to be whole lot more of every other keyboard brand out there, than there is of the MSX. Yamaha probably has 100 to 1 ratio volume of keyboards sold compared Lionstracs. Maybe even a lot more than that.

So it comes down to this, what will be under scrutiny for a Mediastation owner who is brave enough (or stupid enough) to post a demo? Not the software instruments, plenty of demos of these are already available. No chance of convincing you that the styles are better than average, we’ve already stipulated that they are not there yet. The only thing left to be ridiculed is the owner’s playing skill and producing skill in what style and sounds they choose to place their heads upon the chopping block with. Yet we wonder why there are not more sheep lining up for the slaughter.

But the truth is there have been more users demos posted here than people are giving credit for. To read some posts you would think that no one user has yet posted a demo. That is not true. I posted several for a friend of mine from Puerto Rico, they featured some latin styles and sounded pretty good. I tried finding them again but the links were “yousendits” and they had all 4 expired. But here is a quote from one of our more famous Lionstracs supporters (LOL) about the Latin Demo.



Tito did confirm, btw, that his song consisted of a standard style and some of the standard Giga and Dream chip sounds that came included with the Mediastation. I also asked about the trombone that Diki found very had to believe could be from a keyboard, it was from the Lionstracs GM Giga Sound Bank, number 58. The Sax he didn’t like was from the Dream Chip GM Sound Bank. No user installed sounds or vst’s, just OOTB like everyone had asked for. I think that Tito had 4 demos in that one thread.

I also posted a user demo, against the urging of some that sz would be too critical of anything Lionstracs. Here is a link to that thread. http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/014737.html The Demo on this thread is still active if anyone missed it. Here is the quote from me on that thread answering a few questions about how it was played



Diki here was you comments on my little demo.



I only quote all this because I’m tired of hearing about the lack of any user demos

Alfa Magica also posted a demo or 2 in that thread and here is a quote from Diki about that demo.



How can you comment on all of these Demos and even use the terms”Nicely Balanced” on one and “very well done” on another; then say that you have yet to hear one decent user demo?

QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
Well, finally.... the first decent demo on an MS (see - I CAN admit it!), Very well done, Tito....!
[/QUOTE]


See!!! You even called it decent. LOL

then you post this today





We Mediastation owners are not paid by Lionstracs or by you. We don’t owe a demo to anyone. Let’s face it we’re just trying to be friendly. Yet after we’ve actually went out of the way to post a few things we’re still called “mysteriously unrepresented”

Another thing to look at is the numbers I am probably the only MSX user in the USA who posts on SZ with any frequency, Fran doesn’t count as his unit was damaged before he acquired it and is only now being brought up to spec. There are 2 or 3 other MSX owner that post here. You have practically 100% participation of users posting demos. 100%!!! How many Ketron users are here? GEM? Roland? Korg? Yamaha?

Anywhere close to all SZ Arranger owners posting Demos? I would be very surprised if that were the case.

But it is not a requirement for anyone to post a demo, and as we have learned here it does absolutely no good to even try, you’ll be forgotten in no time. LOL

We should all express our opinion but the constant repetitive badgering gets old.

There are a lot more examples of this same thing, but I’m starting to get a headache from looking at it. So, I’ll just let it go.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
Well, finally.... the first decent demo on an MS (see - I CAN admit it!), Very well done, Tito....!.[/QUOTE]



Which is it?



Why WOULD you post it here?



[This message has been edited by richard_shiflet (edited 02-25-2009).]

Two GREAT posts, firstly by Chas, who as Richard said, nailed it perfectly, and then Richards as well. all I can say is again well argued and reasoned.

Couldn't have said it better myself

Dennis