Question..
I have installed the new modelling Pianoteq 3 under multiple ASIO host Patch and is working really good:


What is the sostantial difference from the new Roland V-Piano VS the Pianoteq 3?

Well, for one thing, it seems on the Pianoteq, (from that screenshot, at least) that unison detuning is a global parameter, whereas on the V-Piano it is per note (if you want).

This will help the piano sound more 'real', as unison tuning is rarely, even with the best piano technicians, consistent from top to bottom.

I liked Pianoteq2's demos, but overall, I felt that Roland's sounded a bit more like a real piano, better than samples, whereas the Pianoteq didn't QUITE cut it against the best of the sampled sets out there.

PurgatoryCreek.com has examples up of the Pianoteq (no Roland V-Piano, yet...) for you to compare to other sample sets, including GIGA. In fact, you might want to put the MS's GIGA piano up there for comparison...

I'm a Pianoteq user and I have to say version 3 is a vast improvement over 2. It now sounds “in my opinion” hyper realistic. Version 2 was good but it had a slightly synthetic bottom end and soft mid tones, where version 3 has all the feel of a real piano from top to bottom.



I read on another forum that there will be a Pro version of Pianoteq 3 released that will do that. No dates set though.

Regards.
James.

Well....

Seems atleast like a pro for MS...

And MS can upgrade its piano sound, roland Can't...

But how is the processor of MS doing while handling Pianoteq III

That's always a good question. 'Closed' arrangers and keyboards have their faults, but when they say 128 voices, you get 128 voices, no matter WHAT sound is being used... (and yes, I know a four element voice uses four voices!)

I'm just curious, but when CPU overloads occur (from using some very intensive VSTi's and effects, etc.) does the MS multi-task, and only close down on the overloaded VSTi, or does the whole thing glitch out?

Like always you Diki continue talk without any know how...

Do you think that one keyboard with 128 Voice you are able to use this all voices for the sounds??
Read well how the embedded DSP are working: http://www.lionstracs.com/download/software/FIR97082voices.pdf
when all is running, 66 voice are used for the system and the remain 62 voice for play the sounds.
Then: IF you use stereo sounds, it mean double voices to use, press one chord with 4 notes, it mean another 8 voice sucked from the 62 available.
start to play one midifile/ complex styles and then Hold the Sustain pedal too...

On MS with AMD dualcore 5200+, under the COMBI mode, ( 8 layered sounds) connect to 8 different PC engines: sampler, ASIO Hosts..I have played about 800 Voices, then start to overload the CPU and some asio host dropped some notes, BUT never crashed!

On the PC system all depend on the hardware used, CPU, RAM, more power you have, more voices and application you can open in realtime.

Maybe you tough about the Oasys limitation, software/hardware embedded issue..the MS is a totally different concept.

Yep agree with this... ON the "traditional" keyboard you are locked to whatever the manufacturer gives you, on the MS, it is, whilst not unlimited, it IS a LOT..Lot more than 128 too, all used in real time.

Dennis

So, how many Pianoteq3 voices can you get in realtime from the MS?

I realize that English is not your first language, Dom, but perhaps the "(and yes, I know a four element voice uses four voices!)" sentence might have clued you to the fact that I know the difference between the total number of oscillators (or 'voices', as they are usually called, in English) and the total number of notes available for any particular sound, But feel free to keep belittling me. I can take it better than you can take legitimate questions about the MS, anyway!

Different VSTi's have vastly different CPU requirements. You may easily get 200 GIGA voices, or other sample playback systems with minimal processing on modern CPU's. But modeling is one of those things that, at ultra low latencies, can quickly drag even the beefiest CPU to it's knees. Or am I talking without any know how again?

But let me get this straight, because it's quite an achievement... If you are playing a style, or streaming some audio, and max out the CPU with something like Pianoteq3, the style still keeps on playing and the audio streaming, and only the Pianoteq3 chokes? That's pretty darn good...

yes, Pianoteq 3 seem suck a lot of CPU.

I made this last test on Dennis MS and now is on package..Fedex come to pickup today.

I have load one giga Liatin styles, running the B4II Asio host, running the NI FM7 Asio host and then the Pianoteq 3 Vst under Vst Host ASIO mode too.

Setup the Pianoteq at 96 Voice, starting play the Latin style, hold the sustan pedal with Pianoteq 3 and played a lot of notes.

In this situation setup the system was sucking the 54% of the CPU.

I think we still have more power for running more engines.
One more note: in normal use, I don't think you there have to play the all the engines together..
when you play one style/midifile, then you play over with the B4, switch in realtime to Giga, to Pianoteq, Massive... then you have just some engine working, all the others are waiting for the process.

Maybe a good mandrake man with 20 fingers is able to play the all engines together..but what for a sounds chaos you get?

Com on..to be realistic...is always a compromise to choose.
the MS is based with a standard PC system features, do not ask on MS to make miracle when the others all brands can offer you just some closed candy...

just the possibility to install and play the Pianoteq 3 and a LOT of others asio sounds all in realtime just by press ONE key, is a big PRO for the MS.

If you don't like the MS styles, this is another argument, but for the souns sets, no another keyboards is able to make what the MS can offer.
When then will be available the new Windows Karma application, on MS we can runing under the last available ASIO Host Patch Key, in combination with the all others ASIO host engines
Then we have also the Oasys Karma on MS full midi controlled like the Openlabs.

enjoy what you play.

Hi LIONSTRACS.



Hmmm.... I had to devote a dual core laptop to run Pianoteq all on it's own because the second you hit that sustain pedal, the poly goes well over 100 notes often when playing.



Can you explain what you mean here exactly. What has the mediastation over the Neko ?.



There is no such application. It has been requested by many and Stephen does have the interest in writing it at some point, but as of now it does not even exist.



You still won't have an OASYS because the Mediastation has no way of producing any of the sounds the OASYS can. The mediastation depends on being able to load up other peoples software and everything in the OASYS right now cannot be purchased anywhere.

James.

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 02-24-2009).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irishacts:
[B]Hi LIONSTRACS.

quote:In this situation setup the system was sucking the 54% of the CPU

Hmmm.... I had to devote a dual core laptop to run Pianoteq all on it's own because the second you hit that sustain pedal, the poly goes well over 100 notes often when playing.

How you can compare one Laptop CUP VS a desktop CPU and with the Linux audio Low latency RT kernel? Linux RT kernel is more optimized as the windows OS, here we dont have some issue as the windows have, on MS all running standard at 2.9ms latency.
----------------------

quote:If you don't like the MS styles, this is another argument, but for the souns sets, no another keyboards is able to make what the MS can offer.

Can you explain what you mean here exactly. What has the mediastation over the Neko ?.

Are you there kidding and blind or what? Please..better that we don't touch this key or you make me really laugh....
-----------------------------------------

quote:When then will be available the new Windows Karma application

There is no such application. It has been requested by many and Stephen does have the interest in writing it at some point, but as of now it does not even exist.

Are you totally sure 100%?? On Openlabs Stephen shown the new windows Karma OS that is running at stand alone version, for sure is one ASIO application too.
Do you think that Stephen developed this all new Karma OS only for the Openlabs keyboards that cost 6.900 USD? Just wait and then for sure will be available the same OS for the desktop PC too..here all depend of money..businness...
-----------------------------------

quote:Then we have also the Oasys Karma on MS full midi controlled like the Openlabs.

You still won't have an OASYS because the Mediastation has no way of producing any of the sounds the OASYS can. The mediastation depends on being able to load up other peoples software and everything in the OASYS right now cannot be purchased anywhere.

IF wil be available or not the Karma under windows, do you think that the MS user with the Multiple ASIO host patch are still interested on Oasys sounds??
Maybe you have forget what the MS can load and play in realtime: http://www.lionstracs.com/store/information_pages.php?info_id=24

with the Qranger we are able to record UNLIMITED audio-midi tracks, chords layer, giga and ASIO host.
with a nice SEQ sequence and the Omnisphere: http://www.lionstracs.com/store//images/2009/omni34.jpg
is possible make 100 times more as the Oasys, more Simple and fast.
Open Qranger and use the 10 ASIO Hsot midi outs, Giga support and unlimuted audio streaming tracks with effects...what yu wil make with only 16 tracks recorder?

then the last: the MS X-76 expanded cost officially ONLY 2600 euro..
What cost one Oasys? audya? Tyros3? Motif?
For 5000-7000 euro keyboards I will pretend the ProTools HD hardware features with Logic Audio integrated!

[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 02-24-2009).]

James, just look at software interface difference: http://www.openlabs.com/mimik.html

really nothing to compete with the Extreme sample converter: http://www.extranslator.com/screens.html


and just one of the lots available on MS:


can you see some difference?
remove from openlabs the only application that maybe they have developed, what remain native on Openlabs keyboards?
only the Case...
Just only one software question: they have 2 MIC Inputs, how you control the Mic inputs in live mode if no one MIC interface is available? do you use Reaper or Forte??

so please...never compare again the MS VS Miko/Neko..

Where did I compare ?.
I simply said that I had to dedicated a laptop to Pianoteq because the second you start using the sustain pedal the poly count goes well over 100 notes when playing normally.

You even said it yourself that Pianoteq sucks up a LOT of CPU.

The reason why I dedicated the laptop to Pianoteq was that my desktop which is a Quad Core Intel Extreme with 8GB of Dominator RAM didn't run Pianoteq as smooth as I would like when running other software. I would imagine that my desktop far exceeds your mediastation.



Sigh ....!!!! Straight to calling me names and completely avoiding the question. Why do talk to people like that ?. I've seen you do this so many times. You get angry straight away when someone asks you to explain something.

Look, you made a comment saying that the media has sound sets no other keyboard is able to make, all I'm asking you to do is explain what you mean ?.

Have you developed a new synthesis engine, or are you simply trying to lay claim to the fact you can install third party software to produce all sorts of sounds ?.

If all you have is third part sounds, then what's stopping any Neko or PC user form doing the exact same thing ?.



Yes he has, that's why it's called KARMA OL (OPEN LABS). You also don't seem to be aware of fact that his software checks to see what it's connected to and if the wrong device is found, it shuts down.



Every single synth engine that the OASYS has is available at the same time. No loading times, and instant switching between sounds and entire engines. You can even mix them all together at the same time if you want. Each engine is totally integrated into every other system of the OASYS including KARMA.

The OASYS is a musical instrument you can switch on an access every system without loading a single thing to memory.

The link you gave does contain an impressive list of software, but I don't need a mediastation to run that. Anyone can do that right now with a PC.



The words unlimited an Omnisphere together make me giggle. You do realise who much load that places on the CPU ?.

Fantastic software, but you need an monster of a PC to run it.



Which is fantastic value, and why I have been following your posts for a very long time now. I'm interested in it, but not as a replacement for anything I already own. For me I need to figure out why I should buy it rather than just using a PC.

You don't have your own synthesis engines or anything sound wise that makes the mediastation unique as far as I can see.

Regards
James.

Hi LIONSTRACS .



I totally agree with you 100%.
I use nothing but Extreme Sample Converter on my PC for all my sound design.



Karsyn, mfusion and RiFF



If I do that for you, will you also promise to stop comparing the Mediastation to everything else on the market saying it's better ?.

The mediastation is a great produce but it needs to stand on it's own now and you need to find what it is that's unique about it and push that. Not compare it to other products.

Regards.
James.

good reply..
then let me see if with your monster PC are able to setup one simple system setup and make live gigs as one standard keyboard.
let me soo how you play some audio-midi players, play styles and the all sounds over it.

just a simple ready setup system like you have to play one simple arranger-synth keyboard.
then make a simple video demo ( i dont care about the sound quality) and show us how you can play all and if the most time of your hands/finger are over the keyboard or always to use the mouse/PC keyboard...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlADLhdqffE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ooKPAGhLeg

have fun

this is the point!
I can not find another keyb WS that can have at least the 10% features as the MS has, for that the MS still remain unique worldwide.

Now will reply Diki for sure...

this is the second point:
we have the own DSP ROM dream, the bigger mistake that we made is one prefessional WS...but now is inside and we leave..
I will never and ever fight again with my MS user clients about the sounds.

why I have to develope own lionstracs sounds and then all you there only criticize?

i can try to make the best organ sounds as possible and then you there will reply: the B4 II is Much better...
I can try to make symth sounds..then you there reply: Oasys sounds is better, Omnisphere are much better...
so..this will be NO end and we have to invest money for sounds developement??

the MS concept is to make working good the system and allow the user to Install, Load and play the all sounds, new sounds, VST, Giga that they want!
you dont like the Pianoteq 3? then load another VST or a Giga piano garritan.
You dont like the embedded drums?? install addictive drums..
why we have to fight for the sounds quality?
Leave the user to choose what they want, if they dont like this new sounds wil be Never the fault of the keyboard manufacture.

do you have understand the concept?

James,

There is quite a difference between the OpenLabs Miko/Neko products and the Lionstracs Mediastations. The OS being of course the major difference and the major advantage, I believe, for the Mediastation. The level of customization that Domenik has achieved with his GUI is extremely impressive.

OpenLabs on the other hand has taken Windows XP and tweaked it for audio. Disabling windows processes not necessary for audio production. They have a great product as well. It is a very good replacement for a midi keyboard controller and a PC all packaged together in one case.

But that is where the similarities end. They can customize the Shell and tweak settings but they cannot change the basic code of Windows XP, as it is a closed OS. The basic code for Linux, however is not only available for rewriting, the whole concept was designed for it.

Linux can be taken and made to do almost anything you can imagine. And Domenik has made great use of it. He can literally write a few lines of code to cause any button, knob, or slider on his front panel (or input from his touchscreen) to make any process in the Linux os happen.
With Windows you are limited to what ever features the software allows you to remap only.

The OpenLabs products use a custom version of 'Forte' called 'Karsyn' as a rack to load vst's. Disclaimer: I have no info about the features of the new application "Riff" on Open Labs products. The Mediastation manages vst's with the OS, having Vst support and Asio support written into the basecode along with the Add/Sub synth the DreamChip sounds and Giga Sounds ect...

Giga Sounds originally designed for Tascam's GigaStudio are handled with Linux Sampler. They are manipulated on the MSX as easily as Rom sounds are on standard keyboards.

This is a quote from OpenLabs FAQ page about the use of GigaStudio,

"Can I run GigaStudio on my Open Labs product?
GigaStudio is an amazing application that is perfectly suited for Open Labs™ hardware. It operates at the kernel level of the operating system which gives the end user amazing performance at extremely low latency. However, due to the nature of its performance, GigaStudio can cause system instability when installed with other audio applications. If you wish to install GigaStudio we recommend uninstalling all unrelated audio applications and use your NeKo as a "Giga DAW."

The MSX boots up playing Giga sounds straight from the factory.

While I have not spent a lot of time playing the Korg Oasys, I think that If I understand its design, this oversimplified analogy fits.

1)The Oasys has a linux computer inside but is completely closed to the user and it appears like an embedded keyboard's GUI only.

2) The OpenLabs Miko/Neko is windows PC with all the advantages and disadvantages the any other Win PC has, you load the software you want.

3) The Mediastation is the best, imo, of both approaches combined; the GUI of an embedded system ( very easy to use, no pc knowledge required, like any other keyboard). And all the power and flexibilty of the PC system where you can add any vst you like.

For the person who doesn't like computers you can turn on the Mediastation and play several types/ libraries of sounds and never deal with its computer functions. For the person who is technologically inclined, they can load software to their heart's content and setup very complicated split layers using multiple sound engines and software from numerous sources and save them all into presets for instant recall.You get the best of both world's.

If Korg had designed the Oasys to allow users to load any 3rd party software they like into the keyboard and mix these sounds with its internal Korg sounds then the Oasys would have really been amazing. Then perhaps they could have added the Pa2x arranger to it also. Who would not be interested in it then? And since it based on linux, this should all be possible for them to do.

I would assume however that their decision to limit it has more to do with marketing. If not careful a company could really cut into all of their future sales by designing a 'do it all' future proofed keyboard.

The Neko/Miko, Oasys, and Mediastation are all 3 great products with varying pros and cons; but I really believe the future of where all keyboards will eventually go. Its up to the keyboard manufacturers to balance ease of use with power.

Richard

Hi LIONSTRACS

Ok I think I'm starting to see what your talking about here.

So to clarify, since you have no interest in devloping your own systhesis engines, is the mediastation main goal then to be a optimised Linux computer in a keyboard controller and to be as a platform to load other peoples software ?.

If so what edge does the mediastation have over a PC or a Neko because they do all that too ?

Have you developed something that brings all this together.

Regards
James.

Hi richard.

Thank you for your reply.

The Linux audio optimisations really don't sell the idea enough for me but you did hit on something I've been trying to drag from Dom.



This sounds like the most single important feature and I'd like to know what this is and what it can do for me.

I'm happy to dig around any OS, but when I'm working and I have a client beside me, I don't want to see anything but lots of sounds and a sequencer.

I would like to be able to switch on and start writing without having to deal with loading software or dealing with any technical issues common with an DAW.

Does the mediastation make all that disappear and become seamless ?.

Regards.
James.

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 02-24-2009).]

Hi James

With the Wersi OAS system, (Still the best interface at making the computer almost totally invisible to the user) you only need to use the Windows interface when first loading the VST instrument software.
Once loaded then everything is done from within the OAS system, (The Wersi VST Host is based on Vstack) and depending on what setups you choose, it can load the plug-ins at start-up, or when you choose a preset.
As an example
Each sound button can store up to 45 different sounds which are selectable from the screen, (These sounds can be internal, external Midi and/or VST etc) consequently you can select any sound from anywhere just as you would an internal sound on a Roland, Yamaha, Korg etc. (If you don’t want to use a main sound button, up to 9 sounds can be loaded per layer per preset)
You can also store the mapping in the preset. (You may not want the same 45 sounds per sound button for all the presets)
The same applies to the accompaniment section, (Operates the same as sounds) and can mix and match Styles, Midi, Video, Wav and Mp3. (Any instrument loaded can be used in the Styles and Midi)

From the information on the Lionstracs site, their version is not as integrated as the Wersi OAS, but compared to using an external computer, (With all the setting up, and cables all over the place) it’s a piece of cake.
Hope this helps put your mind at rest.

Regards

Bill

Well, you asked for it.

Unique in being the only keyboard out for over three years now without a TRACE of decent factory or user music written on it. Quite an achievement...

No shortage of screenshots though. I really dug the beat on that last one. A sure fire hit!

While that is extremely unusual, I'm not sure anyone could question the ability of the Meidastation to be able to do that. It is after all a platform you can run any commercial software on.

If they give me one for free, I'd gladly look after all their demo's.

It cannot sound anything but fantastic when you run the right software on it.

Regards.
James.

Correct.., it is very odd that given what the MS really is and its given platform that you don't find really good audio and video demos of this keyboard.

I honestly don't think ANYONE here truely doubts that the MS is capable of producing some very good music considering what all you can load into this thing.., problem is that we're just not seeing or hearing too many people doing it.

I don't know what's holding people back either. Is it fear of being judge on playing skils or something..., I just don't know. It would be great to just hear a STOCK MediaStation without all the user added programs. Just to hear this keyboard with the apps that come standard (including the MS soundset created by Dom's team)

We already know the styles aren't up to par with the major three, but it would be great to hear someone using this thing out of the box.

What is it with people asking for a free one?

You are the second person to try and get one for free, also by stating YOU can produce great demos and showcase the Media Station.

Why don't you just buy one instead, and THEN do that!

Dennis

Miden.., people are simply saying they're willing to do some work for Dom in posting quality demos and rather than go through the hassle of "figures" in terms of money.., use an MS as compenstation

Perhaps Dom can work something out with someone.., somewhere who can post good quality demos that not only can be shown here..., on YouTube.., but for Dom to even use for promotional purposes.

I do not think it has anything to do with skills, having them or the lack of them.

Just look through the many, many posts of negativity (a lot have covert negativity, but it's still there) about the Media Station.

Also look at how certain members treat someone who does try to post and you might gain an insight into this problem.

Sometimes I get the feeling it is all about "massaging" the egos of these people, so they get to feel superior to someone else.

As though they have doubts about their ability and need to hear someone not as good as them to bolster their self-esteem.

Maybe that't too deep, and I am over-reading it.

Who knows.

All I can say is that that is the "impression" I get from some posts.

Especially when it's a theme repeated over and over and over again.

I think it is this reason in the main, that there are hardly any posts (and the fact that this forum does not have the posting capability does not help....NOT a criticism Nigel, just an observation).

Take a look at the Yamaha forums and there are hundreds of musical posts, why is that?

There are posts of songs also on quite a few of the Yahoo member groups too.

So what is it about THIS forum that makes people feel that they couldn't be bothered?

I could make some suggestions, but that would possibly bring on yet another debate of which I would want no part.

Is it an American trait, that everyone HAS to prove themselves? I know that "competition" is endemic in the American ethos, but why do people HAVE to prove themselves. And why are they condemned if they do not?

In my view, having the ability to play well and sing well, or not having it, does NOT invalidate a person's experience or opinion.

A suggestion, or criticism (constructive) does NOT need the poster to supply proof of his/her musical ability, before it is taken seriously.

The outright dismissal of someones opinion, based totally on either an inability, or unwillingness to post examples of them playing is ridiculous.

Why people cannot give the benefit of the doubt to fellow forum members, WITHOUT having to pass some cock-eyed "proof" test is beyond me.

Those who criticise other peoples music, should seriously take a look at what THEY are producing before casting stones.

So Squeak, I think you need to look at "attitudes" on this forum to find the answer to that question of why there aren't more member performances.

BUT, you will need a very long ladder to reach the top of the towers.

Dennis

PS: If you are interested, I may be doing some demos of exactly that, the sounds of the VST's available on the MS used in songs. Perhaps a couple of modified styles as well?.

But it WON'T be on this forum. I will advise when done and where they can be found. Those interested can then check it out, those who are not can please themselves.

Sorry Squeak, but I am not as magnanimous of spirit as you, and I tend to take a more cynical view of these requests.

I certainly would not pay someone 2700 Euros (around $5200 in our money) for a few demos.

Dennis

I disagree Dennis..., it would depend on the quality of videos the person can create for Dom. If a person on this forum is capable of producing high quality and well edited vids showcasing this keyboard I'm sure it's at least worth a MS (considering Dom would be providing an MS to that person based on his actual production cost). Simply look at it as a business expense.

The hours and time put into making high quality video demos can rack up and FAST... A good deal of time alone can be spent in editing.

Okay, my bad Squeak.

I was assuming you meant a handful of audio demos, not several fully produced videos. They could be worth an "at cost" version of the MS.

And further, if these people can also produce say a one or two hour instrcutional video that would also be something to consider.

Dennis

I don't get it? With a controller and a laptop, you could produce whatever you could produce with the Mediastation. So why the clammer for a piece of music created on the MS? Unless that piece of music involved MS STYLES, or the MS had really crappy hardware (A/D,D/A converters, clock, DSP, etc.), I don't know what it would prove. Maybe I'm just dense (come to think of it, I probably am). Sooooo, if what we really mean is that we want to hear something that was created using MS STYLES, then we should say so. .....except that we already know that the native MS styles aren't uh, exceptional. Sure sounds like much ado about nothing, to me.

We already know that the MS is for a niche market. If you want an innovative, new, and powerful tool for creating music, the MS 'might' be for you; if you're looking for a tried and proven TOTL ARRANGER, you should probably look elsewhere. I've said from the beginning that I think that the MS sounds like a great workstation with some 'arranger' functions. When you look at it like that, what's not to like. Wish I had one (fully loaded) right now in place of my Fantom G7......I think.

chas

Just about every arranger made has got supporters and detractors on this forum. The difference is that only the MS (and to a certain extent, Wersi) owners are unwilling to post evidence of them enjoying their keyboard, and actually recording some music made on it.

People of quite limited playing skills (not that everybody that posts is in that category, don't get me wrong!) are able to make music that sounds very polished on those arrangers. After all, that's kind of the POINT of an arranger, isn't it? If you HAVE to make everything from scratch, you would have got a WS, wouldn't you? But mysteriously, the MS remains unrepresented.

I do not buy the shrinking violet line... Let's face it, if anyone HAD made some good, polished music on the MS, wouldn't it be more likely that they WOULD post it (somewhere, anywhere, it doesn't matter about it being here... we'll find it!) just to get 'in your face' with the skeptics? That's what supporters of OTHER arrangers have no problem doing...

Someone says that the G70 (or any TOTL arranger) sounds rubbish OOTB, someone posts some music and goes 'No it doesn't! Listen to THIS This is OOTB' and the discussion continues. NOT 'No, it's not rubbish, but I'm NOT going to provide any evidence of my opinion. You should simply trust me, I know what I'm talking about '

Well, we ALL know what we are talking about...

Some music is the only way to illustrate your point (or the complete absence of it, in my case). If it's fun to play, if you can easily make polished music on it, why WOULD you not post here?

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 02-25-2009).]

Are members even aware that user demos were put up for synthzone members to listen
to?

These were demos by satisfied MS users.


Do you remember the reaction to them?

So if I now go and get an MS, knowing all the negative discussion by persons who have not even seen let alone heard in person a MS, and seeing the reaction by such persons to satisfied user demos, why on earth would I put up a demo for such persons?

I know what will happen; I put up the demo that I like and then I will hear from members here that you suck.

If I like and my audience likes what I produce on the MS that is all that matters. I am not going to put a demo up so that my work would be belittled.

Remember I am not saying this for saying sake, but this has happened on this forum when MS users put up demos.

First of all genesys... If you put up a bad sounding demo, it won't be YOU that some will say sucks. It'll be your MS . Perhaps to you, they are one and the same, but personally, I can tell the difference.

You don't have the slightest respect for anyone here, do you..? Personally, I think that MOST of us here can tell the difference between a great player on a poor arranger, and a poor player on a great arranger. Make it easy on yourself, if worried about your playing skills. Just record the arranger side. Don't play a solo. But accusing us blindly of hostility to you and your music doesn't show much expectation of fairness. As evidenced by the Audya demos (and just about everything else I've heard that WAS any good), it makes no difference to me whether I like an arranger or not. If I hear good music (even from just the arranger side), I am more than willing to acknowledge it.

Secondly, about the only thing that I heard of a quality that rivals (but not exceeds) a TOTL Big3 arranger was that Klezmer piece I heard a long time ago (and that wasn't a style). Please point me to something that equals (we won't get picky and insist it betters a T3/PA2, etc., despite you all claiming the keyboard IS) any of the top arrangers for OOTB quality and polished sound...

I've tried to listen to everything I can find on an MS. YouTube, links from here, you name it. So far, regardless of the player, I haven't heard anything I can relate to yet. I am not a big Serbian music fan No doubt, you have your own personal favorite web clip. Why not post it now for discussion? Or link to the thread where it was discussed before. Maybe I'm getting old and forgetful, but for the life of me, I still can't remember anything Western (not C&W ) that even equaled a Big3 TOTL, let alone bettered it.

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 02-25-2009).]

Wow Chas, that is absolutely the most ‘common sense’ statement I have read from anyone on this forum about the Mediastation. You summed up the whole question that I’ve been wondering,”What is the point in all the clammering for more demos?” Since the same software instrument will sound exactly the same on anyone’s computer as it does on the MSX, and since we’ve already said that the styles library are not yet the equivalent of the other TOTL arrangers, then what point does anyone expect a MSX owner to attempt to prove?

A person is not required to submit a demo in order to be a keyboard owner. As a matter of fact I doubt more than 2 or 3 percent of all keyboard owners ever post a demo on a forum such as this one. There just happens to be whole lot more of every other keyboard brand out there, than there is of the MSX. Yamaha probably has 100 to 1 ratio volume of keyboards sold compared Lionstracs. Maybe even a lot more than that.

So it comes down to this, what will be under scrutiny for a Mediastation owner who is brave enough (or stupid enough) to post a demo? Not the software instruments, plenty of demos of these are already available. No chance of convincing you that the styles are better than average, we’ve already stipulated that they are not there yet. The only thing left to be ridiculed is the owner’s playing skill and producing skill in what style and sounds they choose to place their heads upon the chopping block with. Yet we wonder why there are not more sheep lining up for the slaughter.

But the truth is there have been more users demos posted here than people are giving credit for. To read some posts you would think that no one user has yet posted a demo. That is not true. I posted several for a friend of mine from Puerto Rico, they featured some latin styles and sounded pretty good. I tried finding them again but the links were “yousendits” and they had all 4 expired. But here is a quote from one of our more famous Lionstracs supporters (LOL) about the Latin Demo.



Tito did confirm, btw, that his song consisted of a standard style and some of the standard Giga and Dream chip sounds that came included with the Mediastation. I also asked about the trombone that Diki found very had to believe could be from a keyboard, it was from the Lionstracs GM Giga Sound Bank, number 58. The Sax he didn’t like was from the Dream Chip GM Sound Bank. No user installed sounds or vst’s, just OOTB like everyone had asked for. I think that Tito had 4 demos in that one thread.

I also posted a user demo, against the urging of some that sz would be too critical of anything Lionstracs. Here is a link to that thread. http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/014737.html The Demo on this thread is still active if anyone missed it. Here is the quote from me on that thread answering a few questions about how it was played



Diki here was you comments on my little demo.



I only quote all this because I’m tired of hearing about the lack of any user demos

Alfa Magica also posted a demo or 2 in that thread and here is a quote from Diki about that demo.



How can you comment on all of these Demos and even use the terms”Nicely Balanced” on one and “very well done” on another; then say that you have yet to hear one decent user demo?

QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
Well, finally.... the first decent demo on an MS (see - I CAN admit it!), Very well done, Tito....!
[/QUOTE]


See!!! You even called it decent. LOL

then you post this today





We Mediastation owners are not paid by Lionstracs or by you. We don’t owe a demo to anyone. Let’s face it we’re just trying to be friendly. Yet after we’ve actually went out of the way to post a few things we’re still called “mysteriously unrepresented”

Another thing to look at is the numbers I am probably the only MSX user in the USA who posts on SZ with any frequency, Fran doesn’t count as his unit was damaged before he acquired it and is only now being brought up to spec. There are 2 or 3 other MSX owner that post here. You have practically 100% participation of users posting demos. 100%!!! How many Ketron users are here? GEM? Roland? Korg? Yamaha?

Anywhere close to all SZ Arranger owners posting Demos? I would be very surprised if that were the case.

But it is not a requirement for anyone to post a demo, and as we have learned here it does absolutely no good to even try, you’ll be forgotten in no time. LOL

We should all express our opinion but the constant repetitive badgering gets old.

There are a lot more examples of this same thing, but I’m starting to get a headache from looking at it. So, I’ll just let it go.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
Well, finally.... the first decent demo on an MS (see - I CAN admit it!), Very well done, Tito....!.[/QUOTE]



Which is it?



Why WOULD you post it here?



[This message has been edited by richard_shiflet (edited 02-25-2009).]

Two GREAT posts, firstly by Chas, who as Richard said, nailed it perfectly, and then Richards as well. all I can say is again well argued and reasoned.

Couldn't have said it better myself

Dennis