Don't know who you're referring to, Ian, but as for me, I think arrangers are technological marvels which, in the right hands, can produce acceptable (though predictable) music. I just don't think anyone will compose a 'Beethoven's Fifth' with one (on the other hand, they probably won't on a pan flute either). Also, any comments, thoughts, or attitudes, I may have about 'Arrangers' is ALWAYS in reference to the instrument being used in it's primary role and in the most traditional (basic) way; LH chords, RH melody/solo. I think they are great tools to produce all but a finished product. JMO.

chas

I imagine the traditional way of playing organ would be in that category as well, Chas...LH chords that support the RH melody, which is why a great many arranger players are former organists.

I have a buddy who plays jazz organ on a CVP-309, and he is pretty awesome...sometimes he uses midi pedals, but generally he can can make it honk with just a good bebop or fast jazz style....pretty hard to distinguish it from a Hammond (he does a great J.Smith impersonation), but it is in the phrasing and dynamics that he manages to pull off such a great performance, and he is not held back by any preconceived limitations of the instrument.

Using custom styles of the performer's own making, also goes a long way to lifting an arranger performance above the standard fare...or using custom voices or layers that one can't get on a piano or traditional(Hammond or clone wheel) to bring a new level to one's presentation of a piece of music.

And of course, there are the chords themselves, and inventive use of them (like using ON BASS, or cool extensions) on an arranger really makes a big difference in the quality of a piece.

There are those who will manage to shine in their respective fields, whether it be arranger playing, jazz/pop organ or just playing LH bass and chords behind a singer or soloist....it all depends on the player and just how far they want to take it.

Long live the the arranger...one of my favorite tools, and a terrific piece of work, considering it's humble origins as an add-on to home organs.

Ian

Ian....I also feel that the better arranger KB players are former organ players versus Piano players that play in full in Kb mode vs split mode..........I dont know if it's a chord recognition thing or what ....but there is a difference for sure.

I gotcha Donny, I find that full keyboard mode(even on the Roland, which seems to have the best so far) is very poor if you try and play as you would ordinarily play a piano...very limiting and it requires a big change in technique.

The split mode is far better, and of course, very comfortable for organ players, or former accordion players as well.

I don't know how far full keyboard recognition can be taken, but so far it is still very limiting.

Ian

I agree totally Ian...split mode was the original intention...full mode seems to be an afterthought to lure piano players into the arranger world.

Ha! I've said that of nearly every instrument I've ever owned. Wishful thinking at its best.

Having said that, as far as Roland arrangers have been concerned, I've usually been able to wring close to ten years use out of each one I've gigged with since the late eighties. Perhaps Roland need to look at aping the engineered-in obsolescence of their competitors to generate more sales.

Roland knows what they are doing with their sights directly pointed toward the working Pro vs the Home player enthusiast. Ten years in between changes says something

Donny, I don't disagree with you, but if that's true, it seems pretty dumb. There are gazillions more 'home players' than working Pro's, and if their purchasing history (Lowry, Wersi, Thomas, etc.) is any indicator, they're probably better heeled, as well. Oh well, no one ever said those wonderful folks at Roland were marketing geniuses.

chas

oh my have things progressed since 2009

Well...

I saw some comments about oasys in this thread... way to expensive... yet now we know that the Oasys gave birth to Kronos, which by bow has blown Yamaha out of the high end workstation market..

And then there is diki expecting a very short lifespan for the audya...


Just read back the thread, and you will see how wrong some people where 8 years ago...