Hmmmm, maybe I should give my 2 cents on the E80.... after playing with it for about 4 days.
Well, the keybed itself is the same as in the PA800 (not so good), still has a stinking Floppy Drive(in 2009 , can you believe that)...and the unit is veryyy heavy might I add.
The overall sound is quite decent, but drums haven't really improved from the VA series. The drum edit function in the make-up tools is lacking the ability to substitute different sounds from different kits(big -). I found the Brass sounds quite weak and lacking richness that I am used to from the VA-series. All the other sounds are pretty much average!
The effects haven't seen any major improvement over the previous series, in my opinion. I also found out that styles from the older Roland series have to be converted in order to work properly ( I guess because of the new style structure). One thing that I love on the E80 is the guitar mode, which is 10 times better than on the PA800. As far as the harmonizer is concerned, PA800's TC helicon is far superior.

And by the way, in order for the E80 to sound great, be prepared to spend $300-500 on the SRX expansions. Without those, this is basically a improved VA7. The price tag that they slapped on this arranger is crazyyyy. Even at $ 1600 I still think it is too expensive. You get much more in the PA800, which by the way weighs a ton LESS.
If anybody has any specific questions about it, please ask !

[This message has been edited by hitman (edited 02-26-2009).]

[This message has been edited by hitman (edited 02-26-2009).]

Perhaps four days wasn't long enough.

There are plenty of tempo synced delays in the E80, not just in the MFX section, but also as an alternative to the Chorus send parameter...

The drums have many of the other kits' drums available as alternatives. Admittedly, not ALL of them, but for every V-Kit, you get a choice of about 15 different kicks. If that ain't enough, then you may be in trouble. Personally, I've never had an issue with it.

And the floppy is as an ADDITION to USB, and simply serves as a legacy backup for those without modern computers. Yes, it's kind of redundant, but it doesn't substitute for a modern interface, just adds to it. You perhaps didn't mention the 80MB (I think that's the figure) Flash RAM drive onboard, which essentially makes loading times of styles and smf's instantaneous. Far better than a conventional HD, especially as there is little need for a big drive except for MP3's, and those can be put on the Card slot for several GB online.

I'd spend just a bit more time on it to find it's strengths, and perhaps learn that some of the weaknesses you have found don't exist, you merely haven't found the right parameters yet... Perhaps before offering answers to other's questions, you could spend a little more time asking those that DO know the arranger well for those answers yourself?

Well Diki,

It took me about an hour to figure pretty much everything out!!! Once again there is no possibility to SYNCH the DELAY to the BPM, without having to calculate it (guess what, I know how to do that also). And NO, you don't get 80MB of flash to load your styles and performances, more like 30ish which I managed to fill up in about 20 minutes of loading my old styles and performances. Then, the USB only serves to establish a connection with the computer and can't be used for a USB flash drive. Now, if you consider something that has a USB port a "modern computer", you got a serious problem. I have played Roland arrangers for the past 12 years and havee seen only minor improvements which cost the naive consumer a few thousand of dollars. This Keyboarrd should have been released in 2000-2001, in order to keep up with the competition.
I work with pretty much 90% custom styles and what is on board is not of much use to me. So with that being said, I want the ability to mix and match drum sounds from different kits without having to specify program changes within the style itself!!!

Lastly,
"I'd spend just a bit more time on it to find it's strengths, and perhaps learn that some of the weaknesses you have found don't exist, you merely haven't found the right parameters yet... Perhaps before offering answers to other's questions, you could spend a little more time asking those that DO know the arranger well for those answers yourself?",

I find the above statement totaly out of line here since you don't know me, or my experience background!


[This message has been edited by hitman (edited 02-26-2009).]

P.S. if those onboard drums sound good to you, then you need to go and hear a real drum set again. I also happen to own Roland's V-drums, and know what the company is capable of! But again, in order to get kick ass drums on the E80, you will need to buy that SRX expansion!

The E80 with a G70 keybed.. Now THAT would have taken some beating!!

Dennis

Effects>Keyboard Chorus>6.Delay>Edit

Notice that field on the left that says Note and then the middle field that says 1/4 note, 1/4T, etc.? Tempo synced delay.

Effects>MFX>68.Long Delay>Edit

Effects>MFX>70:MLT TAP DLY>Edit

Same deal. Tempo synced delays (plus other MFX's have tempo synced tremolo, slicers, pans, etc..)

You might reconsider that hour figure.

Sorry, I just looked in the parameter guide and you are right! I will edit and take back my comment about the delay! But I was expecting to have it under the stereo delay!

Anyways, I am sending the Keyboard back and will still hold my opinion that it is not worth the money!

[This message has been edited by hitman (edited 02-26-2009).]

p.s. if somebody is interested, B&H should have mine by tomorrow! Careful, it has some shipping damage and factory flaws on the keys!

Expecting to do more than simply scratch the surface of any unfamiliar arranger in just a few days is simply unrealistic...

But I look forward to your next arranger review. I'll probably spend more time reading it than you will have actually TRYING the various features.

Oh, and the next time someone who has OWNED a piece of gear you have just skimmed corrects you on a technical point, give them the benefit of the doubt that they might know more about it than you...

Please tell me what has improved soo much over the va series!!!!!

Cover Tools = Style Morphing
D-Beam Effects= sad try to compete with Yamaha's and Korg's Pads
Still no Sampler of course...
Took them almost 10 years to make half way decent OTS functionality...
Sound editing= almost non existent

Correct me if I am wrong, and tell me what is there so much to explore on the E80!(lol except digging through the effects)

[This message has been edited by hitman (edited 02-26-2009).]

Yes, I have some questions

. Is it possible to use my VA7 user progs?

. Are there any VA7 styles in the E80 ROM?

. How good is the quality of the
picture/text display?

. The 'Dynamic Split' is that a useful
function? I'm not shure about.

. Can the MFX used for user styles?

. What's your impression of the mp3
player?

Thanks in advance


[This message has been edited by Rolman (edited 02-27-2009).]

Yes you can import the va7 users, but they will need tweaking, and can only be imported via Floppy Disk ..
The rom styles are similar to the VA-series with a few new additions...
Video out picture is OK, I think that vga out would have been more suitable...
Dynamic split would come in handy when you play chords along with a solo line; You can specify wheather it should play high or low notes, so when you are playing a melody with a single note only upper1 sounds, and when you hold that single note and play below or above it, the rest of the uppers will be heard...
You can use up to 3 MFX's for style parts and song parts combined...
This one does not have the MP3 option installed, so I wouldn't be able to tell you about that...

Your answer sounds very good to me. Thanks again. In addition with two SRX cards it will meet my needs, I think. I tested the Korg Pa800 but the style section and the
long-winded OS didn't please me.
Greetings
Peter

Peter,
the E80 is not a bad keyboard, but my frustration is about the fact that Roland is always behind the competition. They certainly are not behind when it comes to the price! I am pissed that the company has so much available, but refuses to incorporate the technology in their arrangers.

Good Luck with it!
Goran

For me, there are two distinct parts of an arranger. The sounds, and the OS.

You've got to like ONE of them, or why buy an arranger in the first place..?

I am not sure where hitman gets his opinions from, perhaps expecting an entirely new arranger only one generation after the V/VA series? Unlikely. Most of the sounds and features in the T3 are legacy sounds that go back a LONG time. Same with Korg, and unsurprisingly, same with Roland.

Not a word, for instance, about the three new Grand Piano sounds. All of which are RD-series staples. Not a word about the VK-series organ section. Not a word about the multiple MFX's and effects sections. Not a word about the multiple Mastering Tools section (separate EQ and 3-band compression on keyboard and style sections). Probably not a visit to Roland-arranger.com to download a myriad of user styles, not a visit to Createsongstyles.com to get conversions from Korg, Technics, Yamaha, you name it.

If you haven't got V2 in it, I guess you missed the new Gold Collection of very usable styles.

But, after all, how much should one expect anyone to understand a TOTL arranger in four days? Let's be honest. As erroneous as his adamantly sticking to his guns about issues he was so obviously wrong about was, what else has he not got yet?

But anyway, best of luck with what you get next. I fear, however, that if four days or less is all you are prepared to give, and as focused on only the negative points as you seem, I doubt that anything is going to satisfy...

Let's put it this way. I presume you got the $2000 blowout price? Name another arranger anywhere NEAR as good at that price!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 02-27-2009).]

Peter that a perfect discription of the KORG OS.....

Well Diki,

there is the Tyros 2 in the same price range that blows the E80 away! If the T2 does not have a satisfying piano and organ sounds, then it has the 1GB of Ram to compansate for those shortcomings. Considering that the E80's ROM is 128 MB, imagine what kind of piano sound I should be able to have with an available 1GB of space. And, yes it has "mastering tools" such as a compressor and EQ (5-band).
I mean I could go on and on about it....

I did however compliment the Guitar Mode, and the possibility to make it sound great with SRX boards. But again, what is the price tag of all that?

But anyways, the E80 should be in the $ 1300 range in order to be attractive!!! (MY OPINION).

I guess you haven't read any of the threads about how slow the Tyros's are to load up samples. That GB will take nearly an hour to load!

Although you DO pay for those SRX boards (not that TOTL sample libraries are cheap, or even plentiful for the Yamaha's closed format) you gain all their sounds being instantly available. Mind you, it's not going to fix your drum problem, as they don't make an SRX board with newer drum kits on it (just older legacy stuff) of the V-Kit standard.

But trust me, if you hate the E80's drums, you are going to cry when you hear the Tyros's And you'll be looking to get one for $1000 Best of luck, my optimistic friend...

The difference between the E80's mastering section is that there are TWO. So an overly aggressive RH part does NOT duck the arranger side down. No such luck with the Tyros's.

And, I'm sorry, but I can't even agree with you on the thing that you DO like! Unfortunately, unlike Korg's Guitar Mode, or the new T3 guitar NTT's, the Roland Guitar Mode is live playing only! It does not work with the style section at all. For most of us, the whole idea of a Guitar Mode is to do authentic guitar parts in the style section, while we play other parts ourselves. You might not have gotten around to finding even THAT out given the rushed assessment..

Oh, BTW, although yes, the E80's RAM disk tops out at 64MB (and stores the OS and ROM styles) - my bad! - the Card slot is functionally identical, and can accept up to 4GB Microdrives. Instantaneous loading (no transferring to RAM first). Not too shabby.

Look, you are entitled to your opinion. I only hope that you don't review the T3 in so hurried and negative a fashion. If you think Roland users get defensive when faced with inaccurate reviews, wait until the Yamaha fanboys let loose on you!

Negative opinions are fine, but when accompanied by so many factual mistakes and failure to understand core concepts, should be taken with a liberal pinch of salt, IMO...

There are players who never load a sample & couldn't care less about that feature

I for one have never felt the need to add samples (or even just ONE SRX board to my G70 ) to shore up it's soundset. There are enough alternative sounds (did you have the 'Extended' soundset enabled when you played it, hitman?) that there's either a great single sound, or a layer or cross-split that you can make that does everything I've tried to throw at it. Mind you, it took me more than an hour to find them all!

I'm about as picky as most when it comes to brass and sax sounds. Being a horn player, that is. Yep, I agree... there isn't much in the way of single sounds that do the brass justice. But a two voice layer gets as close as anything else I've played, and a three voice is an absolute joy to play. Again, a hurried, rushed playthrough of the ROM patches doesn't teach you this.

The SA solo sax sounds and solo trumpets are the only area that I'll give the nod to the Tyros's for (for brass sounds). Mind you, they alone account for a large percentage of that touted ROM superiority. Remove them, and the T2 probably has a much more comparable ROM size.

Look Diki ,
you can defend it as much as you want, but in my opinion Roland gave up on arrangers since the G1000. The VA series was a total dissapointment, now this thing is just what the VA series should have been!

Yes, I used the extended soundset, and I know very well about the layering of the sounds.

As for the Guitar Mode, I find it quite usefull for the music that I do!

My primary reason for going with the Tyros is the keybed. It is the best available in the class (61 key-class). I am not overly concerned about the drums, since I will probably use samples ( and, yes it is possible to create sampled kits as melody programs).


Unlike you guys, I need real sounding accordions and ethnic instruments. Or, even if I didn't need them I still want to know that I can expand the soundset if I wanted!

Hitman,

You also get much better third party support for the Tyros2(especially in the style department).

The instrument has the SA and Mega voices that lift it to a much higher bracket than the E-80 (and G70 as well).

If you are content with a five octave instrument, you will be very happy with the T2's action...the FSX keybed is one of the best in the business.

Plus, you have audio to USB recording on the Tyros2 as well.

It is a nice package.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 02-27-2009).]

I would have thought that if you were into ethnic musics, the Korg would ave you covered in that department...

@ Ian,

I believe the T2 is my only choice at this moment! Again I was a die-hard Roland fan, but will have to give that up.

@ Diki,
The Korg is fine for that Diki, but I just don't get along with the keybed (E80's is identical to PA800's). The Korg is more suited for middle eastern music, while I am from eastern Europe. Something along the lines of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2F0PcTjbx8&feature=related

p.s. I hope you will lower your guns, since I still play a VA76. That's got to be worth something!

You're kidding, right? They practically invented the professional arranger segment. Do you remember how piss poor Yamaha Portasounds were at the time the E20 launched? Where Roland have led, the rest have followed.

Come on now, please don't take it 20 + years back! Let's keep it within the last 10 or so years!

Yes you are correct, Seamaster...the E-20 was quite a jump ahead at the time, but I think the company that brought the arranger to an even more professional level was Korg with their I-3 Interactive Workstation back in 1993...the I-2 was the 76 note version, I believe, and included a new piano sample to flatter the extra keyboard length.

It took the breath (and nearly the monthly paychecks) away from employees of rival manufacturers at its debut at the summer trade shows.

It was the first real arranger that didn't talk down to you, but still provided a very professional layout as far as sounds and styles were concerned.

Now all the big three TOTL arrangers are very close, and it's just comes down to personal preferences regarding buying an arranger.

I sincerely hope that Roland stays in the TOTL arranger segment, as each time they improve their instruments, the others have to follow suit...of course, each manufacturer usually has a turn out front until the others find their own way of leveling the field again.

I liked the E20 a lot...but it did not have ON BASS(that came out on the E70)and there was no acoustic piano...I worked for Roland quite often during that period, and they made some really cool stuff, especially the RA-series modules.

I'd like to see them bring back that concept again...probably more likely they would do it than the others, but I think at this point, everyone is still hoping just for a new G-series.

Ian