I have a Casio Privia PX-800 and the PSR-S900. Neither piano sound excites me. Now I do have a sounblaster soundcard that I don't use.

I don't think I need to spend $300 for a grand piano sample. What should I do?


Beakybird

Hi BB,
While you're waiting for replies you could try downloading this piano user voice for the S900 if you don't already have it.
It starts off as a bright piano, but you can tailor it mellow to taste by pushing the mod wheel forward.

Sorry didn't give the link
http://www.box.net/shared/2pcmjx3zij


John

[This message has been edited by jwyvern (edited 03-05-2009).]

Beaky.., have you tried adjusting any of the synth parameters on your S900? The default piano isn't going to suit everyone.., but often minute adjustments to the filters, velocity settings, and even EQ'ing can prove to be very effective in getting a better piano sound.

If you're looking for a piano sample (softsynth) for less than $100.., in that price range I say save yourself the money and just tweek the onboard piano patch. The tools are already there in your keyboard. The PSR's can produce some very nice pianos with basic synth edits.

Let the other S900 owners here know what you're looking for in that piano patch..., if you're not into editing.., I'm sure there's an owner or two here that can help you tweek that patch to your liking.



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 03-05-2009).]

Pianissimo...
surprised that Fran has not jumped in yet, he posted first about it.
http://www.acoustica.com/pianissimo/buy.asp

or a "used" Edirol HQ Orchestral, which i prefer. May not work on Vista, but I think Fran has found a way.

Your main problem is the latency the soundblaster card will induce on anything played through it...

This will result in, even if you COULD find a great softpiano at under $100 (I have my doubts), a loss of 'feel' and a sense of disconnectedness with the sound. Latency is a groove killer. If you can't get down to about 2-3ms total latency (which is about hardware levels), you lose the sense that you are actually 'playing', and start to feel like you are unconnected with the sound.

Squeak's right, just look at the post just above his (Post No.2)

John

Diki's right about that latency issue. I had the exact same problem. Just the slightest latency can make you feel disconnected. I was using my Novation Xio synth to control one of the softsynths that came with it.., and UGGGHH the latency using that soundblaster was terrible.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 03-05-2009).]

http://www.acoustica.com/pianissimo/buy.asp


Easily the beat value...

Yes, I used XP compatible and Orchestral loaded fine...

Modart Pianoteq has got to be the smallest in size & THE BEST PIANO ,

only 20MB sounding like GB of the big DVD sample libraries

version 3 ROCKS, but it does cost more... http://www.pianoteq.com/

check out the demos on right side of website

+1 to what leezone said.
Pianoteq V3 is as good as Modelling gets.

If you can't afford that, then True Piano is worth checking out. Not as good as Pianoteq, but it still sounds very good. www.truepianos.com

Regards.
James.

I have the Saffire LE that I use. It's a stand alone firewire card. I mentioned the soundblaster in case there are any soundfonts that are suitable.

Thanks for the replies. I downloaded a trial version of Pianissimo, but I am having problems with distorted sound and latency. Will see if I can fix things.

Beakybird

[This message has been edited by Beakybird (edited 03-05-2009).]

beakybird

the ONLY way to get around latency is to have a KICK-ASS computer
AND have a dedicated "pro" external USB or firewire soundcard.

Inside the mix, the Pianissimo doesn't sound much better than the PSR-S900's piano.

Now the question is, if I want to tweak the PSR-S900's piano patch, how can I do that within Cakewalk?

Maybe I'll just live with the PSR-S900's piano.

Beakybird

Wouldn't you need a software editor for the S900 to edit that patch within the software seq? Does Cakewalk allow you to set controls within the software to send the appropriate CC's to the S900 for specific synth paramters?

Beaky.., why not use the onboard synth tools you already have in your S-900 to tweek the patch?

Beaky,
If you've now decided to keep with the S900 voices, there's no need to "make do" with the S900 default piano. If you want an edited improvement over it there's no need for Cakewalk either, it can be done on the keyboard.............

..Or immediately with minimum effort if you download the file in Post 2 of this thread?

Plenty of people have used it on Tyros's and S900 and found it a worthwhile improvement.

Interesting how my original post continues to be ignored - Just trying to help

John

The tools to edit that piano are already under your fingertips The S900 is no synth powerhouse in terms of editing.., but adjusting those synth parameters and even EQ'ing will makea world of difference. I've played the S900 a few times and have messed with the patch editing. It's pretty logical and laid out fairly well.

When I played with the S900 I found the pianos to be to bright for my tastes. I adjusted (on the fly) the velocity settings, minute filter adjustment, and light edit to the effects and was pretty impressed with the result of the S900's piano with some simple editing.

I still say talk to a few guys here who have one.., tell them what you need from that piano and they can hit their 900's and share the file with you.., or download the file already listed in this post.

Thanks for the link James...This might be a good package as Sonar users (thats me ) get a 30% discount. So I will definitely check that out..I have already listened to Pianissimo, and for $78 USD, its pretty good. But I will check out True Piano.

I am looking for a decent piano vst ONLY for solo piano playing, for mixes the Giga pianos are fine.

Dennis

Hi miden.
That 30% discount makes it a great deal.

Check out this video. http://truepianos.yohng.com/daverich.wmv

I know the guy should have dressed a little better for the Video, but the sound will help you make up your mind.

For Piano's Modelling is at the point now where it exceeds even the best sample libraries.

Regards.
James.

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 03-05-2009).]

Just curious...., are you wanting this for the purpose of a better solo piano or one that's not a solo instrument, but one that sits well in the mix?

I'll pass on a suggestion to you regarding a "piano in mix-not solo related". Often for pianos that sit well in a mix you truely don't need to use one of the better quality samples on your board. One thing that a lot of people do (myself included) is using the MONO piano patch on your keyboard (if it has a decent one). Mono piano patches really work well because (since the patch isn't in stereo) the sound output isn't so upfront and in your face. Before I could afford better gear I bought the Roland RS-70 (and I still have it even though I have other gear that puts it to shame).., but for a piano that sits well in a mix.., that Mono Piano patch I tweeked is my FIRST GO TO PIANO for this when using that keyboard. The overall sound is already pushed back.

If you're wanting that solo piano patch you'll have to dig into the synth parameters. The S900's layout is not difficult and like I said in another post.., in a very short time I edited a piano on the S900 (when I played it) and ended up with something to my liking.

Hi Dennis,
they used to have a demo version on site.. I think mine worked for about a month, before it expired.
I quite liked it at the time.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miden:
[B]

To the OP, I want to agree with Squeak here, very true.

And thanks James I will have a look at it. although I have listened to the demos at the website. It is pretty good. About $120 more than Pianissimo after discount, but it does sound better. If I had the $'s it would be Pianoteq for sure, but....

Dennis

If you use ASIO drivers for your soundcard you should be able to adjust the latency to exceed anything available on a hardware based arranger or workstation. You won't notice latency if you set it to 10ms or less. I run my software based system at 2 to 3 ms (128 buffer size)

I just got this Pianissimo.

Funny. Every time I open it, my spyware program, Stopzilla, says that it detected and deleted a spyware program called "Vumo."

I'll see if I can tinker with latency. So far, Pianissimo is sounding like crap.

When you are talking about tweaking the S900, you are talking about a USER Voice. Can you insert a user voice in a midi on the S900?

Beakybird

+1 True comes with Sonar 8 P Sounds fine...but using the Motifs pianos now. Much better than the T3 and far far more editable,The adjustable key off assigned sustain string damper sample is a realistic
touch.

But realize this.... you are trying to please yourself. At the end of the day your end users will hear "piano" no matter what you choose including the 900 stock piano.
None of them will sound like a cheezy synth piano in the mix..

Beaky..,

Yes.., I'm talking about creating a use piano voice that you'd save in the user voice section (which you would then simply call up like any other preset). The tools you need to better that piano patch are already in your board. You've got the basics of patch editing there such as ADSR.., and Filters. You also could take advantage of EQ'ing which in some cases turns out to be all that's needed for some people (some people have been satisfied with the result of only using a 2 band EQ as well).

If the S-900 allows you to revoice Midi's (can't remember if it does or not as I've not played with SMF's on the S900).., but if it does you could easily select one of your user voices to replace another (if you can revoice SMF's on the S-900).

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 03-06-2009).]

Spyware program states that "Vundo" coming from Pianissimo is malicious and serious. It deletes it every time.

One time I turn off spyware. Next time I start computer, antivirus program warns that Win 32 Self Extractor Cabinet program wants access to the internet (I'm paraphrasing).

What's up?

Beakybird

Contact the company and ask about this program within the software. It could be a number of things too. If your spyware is picking it up as malicious it could simply be a program that the company is using to track how you're using the DEMO version (if the Demo version is what you're using).

You may want to contact Fran as well considering he has this program too. He may know what the program is. Spyware programs can be tricky at times and in some cases will flag a program that's not really malicious.

Every so often my Norton and spyware programs kick back a pop up from the online retailer websites because they've picked up a tracking program the retailer uses to collect "buyers shopping habits". Their way of doing marking research without you knowing it 99% of the time. Sometimes that info collected is even used to showcase or suggest products that may be of interest to you when you revisit the site in the future. Amazon is a big one for this.

A personal example here: Not too long ago my computer kicked back a warning about a program on the Zzounds.com site. It turned out to be a program they use to monitor your shopping cart. For some reason.., my software picked it up that day.



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 03-06-2009).]

When you try to revoice a midi you only get access to preset voices (ie. with their default settings).
You can't get access to user voices to directly substitute.
In theory you could go to the midi channel and change all the relevant control settings (and maybe Sysex where DSP's are used) to the new ones, but that could be a pain to do depending on what and how many edits are needed.
At least that's the situation with Ty2 and I'd be surprised if the S900 was more fully featured than that.

John the Invisible

I wonder why they don't let you grab a user voice for SMF's when you revoice. Can you select a preset voice and tweek patch parameters for SMF's? I know that's probably the long way around doing it and can be very frustrating if you have to constantly program the patch changes though.

Yes in principle - as per stated above and with similar reservations to yours.
On Tyros's you can make your edits and save off the PC as a Custom Voice, and they ARE accessible for re-voicing. No good for S900 though.

John

If you have a soundblaster live or audigy, check this: http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/

these guys built drivers with ASIO support for the SB series, with many features not found in the original manufacturer drivers.

Used to use them before i got tha audiophile, ans they worked. Latency is not that low as with the audiophile, but WAY BETTER than the simple WDM drivers.

Not to hijack too much, but I might point out that even the lowliest Roland arranger (E50 and up, I guess, anyway) have the ability to easily edit any style, SMF or Keyboard voice. No messing with sys-ex, no nothing. Couldn't be simpler.

If I were a Yamaha user, I'd take a REAL close look at the Makeup Tools on a Roland, then bitch blue bloody murder at Yamaha until I got that feature...

My spyware program recommended that I delete a certain file in the trial Pianissimo program, and now it won't start. It was probably a false alarm.

I didn't think the piano sound was that much better than the PSR-S900's Live!WarmGrand Piano, especially in the mix, and I did notice latency even with the ASIO drivers on my Saffire LE.

I'm not going to go crazy on this. It looks like to get a really great piano sound, I would need a more powerful, or better yet, second computer or a great piano sample loaded on a separate hard drive. I'm not going to do that right now.

It's a big hassle to deal with midi with Yamaha, since I cannot choose a USER voice within an SMF.

I'll just live with the stock piano sounds - for now, until I can afford a Giga quality piano and the computer equipment to handle it.

Beakybird

Sorry you can't do anything for the SMF route with a user patch. I would still suggest taking a few minutes and tweeking that S900's parameters and saving it to a user location. This way you'll at least have the pianos sound where you want it to call up like any other preset voice. You could still use it for the styles and even user songs. Plus you'd be making a nice solo piano just to sit and enjoy playing.

You cant access User voices from the revoice screen, but you can apply the same edits (mostly) from the Mixing Console Song Part display.



------------------
Yamaha Customer Support
www.yamaha.com/pacsupport
714.522.9000

That might be a good idea for future models, to have some empty banks available that can be accessed from a computer sequencer.

Beakybird