The past few weeks of posting on SZ seem to indicate some confusion as to what is an arranger. So lets see if any one knows what is the text book definition of an “Arranger”. That is what is the minimum requirement that would make a keyboard an arranger. Not what would make the keyboard a “good Arranger”, but what minimum specifications must a keyboard have for it to be called an “arranger”.

Questions:

Is the G1000 an arranger?
Is the Korg I3 an arranger?
Is the Tyros 1 an arranger?
Is the General Music WK 6 an arranger?
Is the Casio CTX 700 an arranger?
Is live Styler an arranger?
Is Tyros 3 an arranger?
Is the Media Station an arranger?
Is the G 70 an arranger?
Is the Korg PA 2 x an arranger?
Is the Yamaha Motif XS an arranger?
Is the Ketron Midijay an arranger?
Is the Ketron Audya an arranger?
Is one man band an arranger?
Is the Korg M3 an arranger?
Is the I pod an arranger?
Is the Yamaha Cvp 307 an arranger?
Is the Alesis SR-16 an arranger?
If your answer to any of those questions is “no” perhaps you may want to examine yourself and others as to why not.

Do YOU consider these 'arrangers'?

I kind of thought one was an audio playback device, with no interactivity, and the other was a drum machine (still got mine!).

Am I mistaken?

All the rest could be USED as an arranger... whether they are any good at it or not is up to the individual, I guess.

But isn't that kind of the point? To figure out what is any good and what is not... Otherwise, just buy any old thing at random. The cheaper the better. It's all the same, isn't it?

I regrettably have a tendency to want to HEAR others do what they claim they can, particularly at something that doesn't jibe with my personal experience. If it's easy to make great styles, OK, let's hear them. If it's easy to play standards on the loopstation part of a WS, OK, let's hear it. If your XYZ arrangers 'blows away' someone's ABC arranger, OK, let's hear it.

One shining piece of music can bring an entire argument to a screeching halt. Without it, it just goes on and on and on like the Energizer bunny.

Me... I always thought that Nelson Riddle was an arranger

“Is the I pod an arranger?
Is the Alesis SR-16 an arranger?”

“I kind of thought one was an audio playback device, with no interactivity, and the other was a drum machine”
Doesn’t the Korg PA2x and midijay function as above?—they both can be used as drum machines and audio play back devices.

What is the technical difference that makes the Pa2x and the midijay arrangers and the I pod and the SR 16 not arrangers (If that is in fact what you are saying)?



[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 03-11-2009).]

A clock in a computer can make the computer a clock, but it doesn't make the clock a computer...

An arranger is an amalgam of components, but a drum machine is not an arranger, an mp3 player is not an arranger. They are merely components of an arranger (or at least, some arrangers My G70 never has had mp3 playback or recording).

For me, at least, it is the 'combination' of different things that makes an arranger... Yes, it needs chord recognition (without it, it is an old school WS), yes, it needs styles (without them, how useful is it, or why is it not called a WS?), yes, it needs a well integrated sound set (or patch selection live is a nightmare), yes, it needs an easy to operate OS (or your live show is a nightmare, again), and yes, it needs to be FUN!

OK, it doesn't HAVE to have that last one, but who wants to play something that ISN'T ?

Diki said: “yes, it needs a well integrated sound set (or patch selection live is a nightmare), yes, it needs an easy to operate OS (or your live show is a nightmare.”
I am sure we can agree that these two requirements are subjective. Not that they are bad to have on an arranger (or any keyboard for that matter), but what may be easy to you may be hard from me. What may sound good to me may not sound good to you.
Yes you are correct that an “Arranger” is an amalgam of components. The question is what is the minimum requirements for “amalgam of components” a keyboard must have to be called an arranger.

Trick question as there is no right answer, only opinions. Arranger and Workstation are terms created by marketing deparments.

What's a home? Is Rap music or is it organized noises, sounds and words?

These questions fall into the same category. It doesn't matter what it's called.

Good description here:

http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/keyboards/home-keyboards/buying-guide.php

My first arrangers were a Yamaha PS-55 and a Yamaha PS-6100.

Ian

IMO they are all arrangers until you get to the Korg M3. To me the sine qua non of arrangers is CHORD RECOGNITION. If it cannot recognize and react to chord input in close to real time, it's NOT an arranger. The next main feature are styles: stored chordal patterns that are subject to transposition according to pre-determined musical rules. However, even a sustained triad (with or without the bass) can be thought of as a very simple style. This in turn could be used to trigger styles in external modules or tone generators.

The Motif is in an interesting grey area because it has rudimentary chord recognition, and "patterns" can be thought of as styles. The M3 and iPod are not arrangers, but one could say that arrangers are the next step up from the iPod, on a broad spectrum between recorded and live music (with phonograph LPs at one end, and acoustic instruments at the other).
My $.02,
Ted

Perhaps it DOESN'T need a well integrated soundset and style set to 'be' an arranger. But how well is it going to sell (if at all) if it DOESN'T?

Most of us will change a sound in the middle of a piece, often on a whim. Many of us like to even change a style on the fly to any other semi-random one. If neither of these things can be done without setting it all up in advance or you risk nasty jumps in volume or EQ balance, well, that's one of the primary things that arranger players do no longer available.

The above are right... It's not really a good question. What is a car? Is a go-kart a car? Is a four wheel ATV a car? Is a motorized shopping cart a car?

Who gives a rats? I know a car when I see one, and we all know an arranger when we use one. And we know what ISN'T an arranger, too! The lines are getting blurred. But, so far, nothing REALLY truly dissolves the differences between arrangers and WS's...

I would also add something to this topic. An arranger is also defined by its hardware, I mean an arranger must have only ONE keyboard, otherwise it becomes an organ or probably a digital piano with arranger functions. What’s the difference between an arranger and a modern organ? Only the double/triple keyboard and pedals and consequently the way you play it and how you use it. What’s the difference between an arranger and a Clavinova?: the 88 hammer action keyboard. Actually the word “arranger” is an English word without an exact translation in my language. In spanish an arranger is called “arreglista the canciones” what would sound like “song composer” and some dealers still call it an “organ”.