the FACT that there were only 20 people there at this IN clinic, and about 12 at "ours" in NY back in Februrary has me a bit worried...

if this keyboard is SO "revolutionary" why not more people?

i mean NY/NJ metropolitan area bringing in about a dozen?

is there that little interest?
a dozen in every major state? and why?
lack of presence at NAMM?
lack of publicity?

and nothing against old folks, but where is the younger generation?
they do play Arrangers, as can be seen in other countries (Portugal, Spain, Italy)...

but what's up here in USA?
Why can't Ketron compete?
Ketron is almost non-existent when compared to BIG 3, but they seem to have the BEAST of all arrangers, right?
Is it price?
Lack of creativity on their RH sounds?
"Bread and Butter" Sounds do get stale after a while

I think Ketron should really consider catering to the "younger" generation with cutting edge dance styles, analog sounds, styles, 808 kits, 909.

I don't think there are enough "folk" musicians, to keep this company afloat for too much longer, at least not in todays economy

I also think Ketron should be careful as to how they price this AUDYA, at least HERE in the USA.

It's just sad that many of my buddies (musicians) say "WHO?" , when i mention the company "Ketron"...

Something is not right...maybe it's just me...but....

just my $0.02

anyone care to put in their $0.02 ?

I agree completely, I use my arrangers in a wedding type gig where I need to play allot of dance, techno, latin stuff.

I also do allot of work with singers who want to record and the newer fresher styles are what's wanted.

I know that the arranger market here in the US is considered a
1) stay at home player or
2) nursing home, entertainment

While there is nothing wrong with that, there is nothing that suggest younger crowds to get into the arrangers,

every wedding or dance I play people are amazed and what I'm doing with just a keyboard.

The guy running the group we play with, insist on having a person behind drums because he doesn't think the people can understand or comprehend the idea

$5000.00 price tag

$1,000.01 TOO MUCH in my opinion

Dnj,

but that's with the "upgraded" US model with 1GB Ram & the 1TB HD right?

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 03-17-2009).]

I think Ketron will soon be out of business. I have no confidence in the company. All the misinformation, lack of good demos and delays, is too much to bare. I no longer believe in Ketron instruments. I'm sure Ted must be frustrated with Ketron as well. To little to late and for too much money.......

Diki has put it all too well in his many posts on this forum.

That guy is right. If you HAVE the real deal, use it. Arranger-drums are a nice substitute. No more, no less. You can not replace the interaction of a real drummer with the rest of the band, ever.

------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl
Happy owner of a Roland E-80 V2

Audya sells here in the Netherlands for € 4390, by the way.

------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl
Happy owner of a Roland E-80 V2

Ketron has maintained the same share in the market place for more than 20 years that I have known the company and it's products...

I think they are stable, even in this economy...

Their product features have always been solid, maybe a little less flashy than the "BIG THREE"...but I would not worry about Ketron folding tent any day soon..


Oh and yes, even at $5,000 they will have buyers waiting for the new model....

I think people would be surprised to see...there are buyers that are not price oriented, and compromise, ...and purchase the many low quality keyboards , most SZoners use...

Y9u can conjecture all you want about the price. We won't know it until they arrive, and the price Ketron US has to pay for them after the exchange rate is figured in.
DonM

Its a bit complicated, only in the NYC area i know at least 120 Arranger players,
all young guys, most of them my friends, only one person from my side attended.
I asked tonz of them, noone wanted to hear about the show, when Ketron mentioned.
They are 90% Korg users and wont switch for nothing in the world. Ketron showed
more attention to the older Arranger players and Folk music and actually hurt itself
by doing that. And the worst they wont change the policy either. Ketron also was never
heard of in many areas of the world till i came in the picture. I personally never saw or
touched Ketron till May of last year, never saw one in real life before. It was not well
advertised, its OS pushed people away and many other things. Lee, the shows are
nothing to worry about, trust me, even if it was Korg show same people would show up,
none of my KORG lovers would come anyways, they know the machines, they ar busy
so to them makes no difference, show or not. I know over 15 preordered Audya users,
4 of them in NYC, none of them came to the show also, its nothing to worry about but
things with Ketron are kinda complicated. I wish someone would buy that thing.

There is a lot of them, trust me, i dont even consider my self or you as that Young anymore...
but the 120 people i mentioned above, maybe 80% of them are below 25 years of age. They might
be Ethnic players but thats where the Arranger strength is. USA was never a big Arranger thing.
The problem is not people playing with bands but DJs are taking over, everywhere and anywhere.
I know many musicians who played in a band, then went to OMB and now the just DJ...nothing else.

Here in the UK poor it's distribution & dealerships stocking the product. The promotion of the product is nonexistent.
Although this is all down to promotion budget available it's basically down to what is available at a local dealer for people to see & buy.
Here in the UK Yamaha followed by Korg do dealer staff product training so what a salesperson knows he can confidently easy sell.

it's just sad that in order for me to thoroughly test the AUDYA anytime SOON, i have to fly 1,000's of miles back to my small country of Portugal to try it out...

That could be a good thing ....why not enjoy what you already have? Meanwhile there will be more new & exciting arrangers on the way from other manuafacturers & Audya will be a thing of the past.

Dnj,

i don't know,
it seems Roland gave up on their top of line arrangers, and is happy selling more of the "toy" arrangers, i guess they realize what's happened with economy and realize what people can/CANNOT afford...

Yamaha is pretty new with their Tyros3

and Korg, well i guess something from them maybe?

i would love to see something BRAND NEW and GROUNDBREAKING from Roland, Korg, Yamaha come out soon

Lee you have the G70 what more do you need in an arranger?

the G-70 is great, BUT the drums don't cut it for me for many styles.
i guess the Ketron has me spoiled in that dept.

also, i'm not crazy about the guitars or brass on Roland,

i guess what i need is an arranger with the left half of the AUDYA (styles) and the right half of the MOTIF (sounds) :-)

I think most younger players in this country (US) want to be a member of a band...so arrangers are not important to them. They want a synth. Remember the arranger is the 'NEW' organ of today.

Yes, $1,000 too high also.

Lee S.

leeboy,

it's not $1,000 too high
it's $1,000.01 too high :-)

$3,999 "sounds" alot cheaper than $4,000

At Sundays Ft. Wayne demo/jam I actually saw someone BUY an Audya at $4899.

Some around think it's justified and can afford it.

My take in GENERAL is that all these TOTL arrangers are way overpriced. If you compare them to a PRO Synth.

$5,000 is over the hill IMHO.

Lee S.

buying it?

there's a difference between buying it and WAITING for it to eventually be released and come in

AND

buying it and taking it home...

leeboy,

it's funny you said:
"$5,000 is over the hill IMHO"

so are most of the people interested in buying it here in the USA :-)

I know for a fact, from an official information that Roland will no more produce arrangers, at
least high end Arrangers from Roland are just a thing from the past...it is information from a
very reliable source...there is reasons of WHY to it too.

If thats true which I doubt....Yamaha will be very happy to dominate the market even more.

or maybe KORG will surprise us with that TOTAL arranger we so much have been hoping for...

Yes, but they have to pay attention to the estetics so the Tyros, or whatever new name they going to use for the new generation, don't look like 'home organs'. In addition why don't they use their best sound to play midi tracks? and, what's up with .waw player. MP3 is becoming a standard for gigs, why didn't they use an MP3 player?

Price is although more appealing that the Audya. I think if there is a way to stop selling Audya from US to Europe, perhaps the price in US should be as suggested 3,999.99. Hospice musicians cannot effort that tag.

Cantanapoli

Maybe if Korg changes their "folder/set" & Driven OS, & Fills, they'll have a chance I for one will never buy another korg until then & I've been playing Korg arrangers since they started...



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 03-18-2009).]

i have never played a Korg Arranger,
just Ketron and Roland

how about if Korg now starts building "toys" as Roland has and then...

what we have left is Ketron and Yamaha...and then...

there's a merge and we get our TYRTRON we have all been craving ???

The hope is that Ketron make enough 'toys' to support their TOTL arrangers. Been a while since any new MOTL or BOTL Ketron's, and they have bet the farm on the über-expensive Audya, during a global recession.

Yamaha probably makes enough from low end PSR's that if the T3 sales slow down, they won't stop making them. But Ketron don't seem to have that kind of market strategy.

They need an Audya 'trickle-down' product PRONTO...

I will bet $100. that the Audya is less than $5,000.
Anybody wanta bet? Or do you just want to keep talking about something that hasn't yet been priced in the U.S.
DonM

Diki,

could this be the trickle-down product you're referring to?
http://www.gwoltal.myfastmail.com/files/Piano%20Toy

i can't tell if it's a Roland, Korg, Ketron or Yamaha

and it's got the built in speakers everybody loves so much...

Why? they already have the SD5

Got one of the little roll ups yesterday, as a matter of fact.

Cute, useless little toy.


Russ

Russ,

do you use the keyboard with your Podiums for that extra "punch"?

OK. I played almost all of them arrangers since the Roland E series, Korg S1, Yamaha PS8000 and Solton (Ketron) MS100. I use arrangers for my solo gigs, in the studio to produce CDs, and in 2 differnet groups (wedding/dance/folk) both using 2 musicians using arranger keyboards, live drums, live gtr at minimum.

I would suggest the following marketing strategy for Ketron:
Market the Audya as your flagship at competition price; although you have to recuper R&D expenses, work on quantity so you can gain market share in the arranger and synth areas. That will put your name out there in the real musicians and DJs community. Brand recognition can only successful if users do use the product; cannot be virtual.
Market a lighter USABLE keyboard to address the needs of the musicians that do not want the added weight and feature. That means 63 keys, with speakers (pointing out to the public) or no speakers. Leave the MP3 player - NO built in MidiJay, No live guitar or bass styles. One or two USB and a decent harmonizer that can be output to a jack. Price that around 1800 and watch you name go out there with the big ones. Here in the States we mostly are acclimed to local big name performers. You would need to put some of those keys in their hands...and you will be gold...

Hi,With all your reply on this topic,I would to tell you that since 35 years I play many keyboards brands Before I bought the Ketron SD5 ,I had a Technics KN7000 and I tought it was the last one for me because this keyboard was the best for my needs.When they said it will close the cie I sold it because of the parts will not be available in case of a major repair. I remember the first phrase that my dealer told me when I bought the Technics keyboard.(dealer:I know that you are a Roland fanatic but give you 6 months with the Technics and after you will love your new keyboard).So that was a good statement from my dealer.Before the Technics it was Solton and Roland.I came back with Ketron SD5 and it took me one year to learn this keyboard.I was patient because of what my dealer told me when I bought the KN7000.After came the Tyros3 So I sold my SD5 and bought the Tyros3 wonderfull keyboard But after 6 months I was lonesome of the SD5.So I whent back to my dealer and bought the SD5 new version 1.0B Now I am in Paradise with these 2 keyboards.With the Tyros3 I found my KN7000 and with the Tyros3 you have all the possibility to download many styles ,sounds ect.and the explotation system is very fast.But if you whant to speak about the Ketron ,now your talking with a real professionnal keyboard.The sounds are real,drums kit wave,a keyboard that is very solid.But whats wrong with Ketron is the upgrades that we all need.They dont ear us because they are busy to finalize the Audya,and at this date it is not finalize.I am telling you that the Audya will be the Bomb of all keyboards.I know people in Europe that bought the Audya and the next day they return to the dealer.People buy keyboard and they dont give time to learn it.Remember my dealer phrase.
So dont worry be happy.
P/S Roland ,the top line will phase out like Technics.

Ian, looking for a stereo mini plug to come out of the keyboard. Concerned about the reproduction of the satereo signal into just one of these magnificant "monsters".

R.

Russ,

I never use my Yamaha digital piano in mono...I don't feel it does the sound any justice...perhaps someone else can suggest a solution.

Ian

I would hardly have called the SD-5 a 'trickle-down' from the Audya. From the SD-1, sure...

Ian, I was KIDDING! Just making fun at my purchase of the little roll-up keyboard.

In this case, the stereo debate is just silly!


Regards,


Russ

Sorry Russ...I thought you were referring to your Yamaha NP30...my mistake.

Ian the Abashed

Has the Audya hype finally died out...havent read anything lately?

ye, i think it's officially dead.

hard to get excited about a product that is not available, and a product where no NEW Demos are showcased...

we have seen all there is to see, in my opinion

Maybe Korg will buy out Ketron?? Korg makes their arrangers in Italy so naturally buying Ketron keeps everything in the "family". Not the Mafia of course but both are familiar with the in's and out's of working with Italianos in Italy. Both of them also have similar technologies when it comes to their arranger line and Ketron could further add to the Pa line with their recent audio style and drum enhancement breakthrough. Let's face it folks. Ketron is a lackluster establishment at best. Lack of support, lack of marketing, lack of overall sales, lack of product recognition, and sheer lack of excitement because the Audya's price point wipes away any smile on a person's face that the technology otherwise brings to the table.

Now don't get me wrong either. If it was "really" worth 5 + Grand (justified fully by consensus of the majority) then more power to them and I'm sure they would have sold many more Audya's than they ultimately will. But since the question remains dubious at best (justified fully by consensus of the majority ) the Audya, in my opinion, will be destined to go down in flames and remembered only as the keyboard that took 3 years after the initial announcement to finally get it to market - in Europe. But with the economy in shambles and with people hoarding and saving money like it's going out of style (and indeed it may be ) = 5 + smackaroo's just doesn't sit very well in folks minds.

How could Ketron turn that seemingly dire prognostication around? How about: "excellent" support, "excellent" marketing, "excellent" sales potential by providing a "competitive" price point with other high-end arrangers currently on the market, and an "excellent" advertising scheme (by word of mouth and all other available means) to get their product(s) recognized world over. In other words, exactly opposite of what they seem to be doing right now.

Korg + Ketron melded into one entity. I can see it. They both start with the letter "K" too, so it would be easier for people to remember Ketron once they've melded into part of Korg Inc.

I would ultimately like for Ketron to stay a separate business entity because it would be providing competition to the other keyboard manufacturers and the more competition there is the better it is for consumers. But since I perceive them as struggling and trying to play catch-up; and then with them, in my humble opinion, "bombing" with their latest attempt to try and do so, it's probably best that they combine with another "major" and mainstay company like Korg. It would help Ketron in that their financial worries would be over and Ketron employees would bring a lot to the table for Korg's arranger division. A win win situation if there ever was one..

All the best,
Mike

The next line of Yamaha arrangers will trump all else on the market..

who knows taht for sure?

T3 is pretty new, so it may be a LONG time b4 we see something new and innovative to compete with AUDYA & Korg's....

Mike,

a MUCH better merge would be Ketron/Yamaha

Ketron Drums, Audio Bass/Guitar & Styles, + Yamaha Sound Engine... Dream come true...

Considering the present economic climate, I think Yamaha and Korg will be concentrating on developing/improving their own TOTL arranger technology, rather than try to adapt/adopt Ketron's half hearted attempt at audio tracks in styles in their own products.

Listening to the Korg demos posted recently on another thread, and also hearing Yamaha's mega voiced styles on my own instruments, I'd say that they both have it pretty well covered as far as style realism is concerned....and they read all the chords without any issues.

Roland has had nothing new on offer in quite some time in their arrangers, so maybe they might benefit from a collaboration with Ketron/Audya, and come up with an excellent TOTL instrument that can finally compete with Korg and Yamaha.

Roland makes arrangers in Italy so it wouldn't be that much of a stretch, and they certainly have a great R&D department that just may be able to make use of Ketron's technology.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 03-23-2009).]

Ketron is going no where or merging with anyoone....please throw away all your crystal balls....

What makes you say that, Donny?

Do you feel they are on the way out?

Buddy, Where do you come up with this stuff. Nope last I heard, AIG has them covered, no worries, there not going anywhere.


[This message has been edited by mc (edited 03-23-2009).]

No Ian, not at all Ian....it's just the ignorant rantings of the uninformed, unknowledgable fortune tellers that spew rumors with no validation that makes this laughable. For pet's sake it's only an arranger KB. No matter what ever comes out will not change anyone's playing ability with out putting the time into practice and become more proficient as a player. Much to much emphasis on whats new, whats best, etc, etc etc ....Ahhhhhhhh what's the use?

Well, Donny, having run with those bulls for so long (and you seem to be rejoining the Arranger Of The Month Club again ), it's tough to complain about the smell of OTHER peoples' 'bullsh#t' without causing a laugh or two...

Let's face it, if playing and practicing were all one needs to do, why do YOU go through so many arrangers, also? And then turn round and berate them for doing exactly the same thing...

You've got to admire the arrogance of a man that thinks he's the ONLY one practicing away while he tries out arranger after arranger...