hello list,.. a few quick q's

1)overall, are you happy with the sounds compared to other synths?

2)can cubase or other sequencer access patches from the expand boards at the same time as the normal patches? for exmp: midi chan#1bass/#2piano/#3organ/#4techno sound/#5session sounds/6#orchestrl etc?

3)is it the same as a xp60 without the sequencer...are the effects different?

4)overall,..is it a good quality product or more like an entry level synth

5)can you save patch tweaks to the bank/patch# it's at or only to the smartmedia cards?are the factory presets permanant?is there a user bank?

I currantly have a childs toy(yamaha psr500) and anything is better but I want a good synth and can only afford one. I want to be happy with it for years to come and give me lots of sounds and patches that are tweakable and shapeable. thanks, morphyx

1)overall, are you happy with the sounds compared to other synths?

Yea. I think it sounds pretty good.

2)can cubase or other sequencer access patches from the expand boards at the same time as the normal patches?

Yes. In performance mode, you can access 15 patches and one rhythm set simultaneously. And each patch can use tones from different boards.

3)is it the same as a xp60 without the sequencer...are the effects different?

I don't have an xp60, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I'm pretty sure the answer is yes as far as the internals go. I believe the 60 has more outputs and more pedal jacks. Maybe more keys.

4)overall,..is it a good quality product or more like an entry level synth

Well, I'd say it's priced at entry level. It's physical build is as good as any other synth out there. The sound quality is great, and it's very tweakable. The number of patches (and the three expansion boards) was the biggest selling point for me. Then when I started playing with it, I discovered a whole slew of other cool shit that I didn't even know about when I bought it.


5)can you save patch tweaks to the bank/patch# it's at or only to the smartmedia cards?are the factory presets permanant?is there a user bank?

Yes. You can save all of your stuff in the user area (128 patches, 2 rhythm sets, 32 performances). If you run out of room there, you can move stuff to/from your computer with the included SoundDiver (see previous thread about soundiver thinking my xp-30 was a jv1010 to get it to work), or you can save to the cards.
You can edit the factory settings for patches rhythm sets, and performances, but that information will be lost if you do not store it in the user area (that's it's purpose) or one of the other methods I just mentioned.


>I currantly have a childs toy(yamaha psr500) and anything is better but I want a good synth and can only afford one. I want to be happy with it for years to come and give me lots of sounds and patches that are tweakable and shapeable.

I think this will fit your needs quite nicely. At this price range (I found mine for $900), you definitely get you money's worth.

thanks syrupdude,... I went and played with gear this weekend. I think I've been sold on the korg TRITON. seq/sampler/flash os/SCSI
at twice the price its a dent in my lifestyle but I dont have to worry about the future of it. thanks for your reply. and yes the xp30 is nice(i didnt like the joystick tho) but fell in love w/korg! good luck! morphyx

I have an XP-30 and I agree with all the good thing said about it. If you can live with the pitch bender then go for it.

im reconsidering,....man i hate making decisions!! buying a synth for less than a grand is easier to swallow than the big korg and i'm not so sure i need a workstation since i'm on cubase. is there any other synth that can touch the xp30 for the money?
this will be my only keyboard and i just want to make sure i get the most for my money. BTW,...is $950 a good price?

also,..will the jv/xp 60/80 patches i see on the web work in the xp30 using a midi librarian?

[This message has been edited by morphyx (edited 11-22-1999).]

Do you plan on playing live? If so, you'll need a workstation or another external sequencer to play live. What kind of music styles will you be writing? Wait b4 you dive for the Triton. Think and consider. If you're only going to play around at home, you do not need a workstation. Sampling can be done better on a computer too. If you have any questions email me at xenophobe69@usa.net

Hello,

I'm not really sure what I want besides a brand new synth! I'm currently recording Industrial-gothrock-ambient techno noise. Basically I have consumer grade gear and I'm not in a band but plan to be soon hopefully.
I think I'm reconsidering a workstation for now, cause I'm not so sure I need It just yet and just want to concentrate on a high quality performance synth with alot of sounds, live realtime tweakability, and widespred support for patches,help, etc. I'm not a "pianist" or even a "keyboard player" per say, I'm a guitarist who also plays keyboard.
I definately want a quality instrument that will be with me for sometime. It may become nothing more than a tone mod or controller for other mods in the future. I've only looked at the Triton, XP60,XP30 . I have not played with the N5EX,Trinity, Alesis Q-series or euro stuff.
Thanks for any advice .......morphyx
Heres my gear:

P2 300 PC
Cubase VST
ReBirth
Bitheadz Retro AS1
Yamaha psr500 synth(toy)
Mackie 1402 mixer
Marshall MXL condenser mic
Alesis midiverb IV
Alesis Monitor one speakers
Peavy CEL2 comp/limit/exp
Line6 POD DI
Jackson ps4 guitar
Peavy Bass

Morphyx:
I though I would answer your questions, and then suggest two ideas. I have an XP50 plus expansion boards. It works the same way.

1)overall, are you happy with the sounds compared to other synths?
Yes, Yes, Yes,
2)can cubase or other sequencer access patches from the expand boards at the same time as the normal patches? for exmp: midi chan#1bass/#2piano/#3organ/#4techno sound/#5session sounds/6#orchestrl etc?
Yes, Yes, Yes
3)is it the same as a xp60 without the sequencer...are the effects different?
Same sounds.. same effects, no sequencer
4)overall,..is it a good quality product or more like an entry level synth
I think the keyboard is light in action, but of high quality.
5)can you save patch tweaks to the bank/patch# it's at or only to the smartmedia cards?are the factory presets permanant?is there a user bank?
There is a user bank. There are thousands of patches which usese of the JV/XP series have posted on the web.

OK here are my two suggestions.
1)Wait till you are established in the band and happy in your guitar role before looking for a synth.
2) Based on the description of yourself and your music, you might first consider whether you want a rom machine(XP30) or a virtual analog machine like the yamaha AN1x ($499 if you can still find one). If a few tasty analog sound effects and pads (a la Geddy Lee) are going to be more useful to you than 20 different saxophone sounds get a VA. Just a thought. Trouble is, most virtual analogs are deficient in the emulation of natural instruments like piano and organ. If you decide on a rom based machine, you can do no better than an xp30 IMO.

I must agree that I like the sounds of Roland XP30 a lot. It is the champion of its class - under a grand and with tons of good sounds. However, I really do not think that Roland should cut corners on its joystick. The joysticks on XP60 and XP80 are so much better. The ones on cheaper models like XP30, JX305 etc. come with a joystick with very little Y-axis movements - it already confuses some of the XP/JV forum participants that modulation (Y-axis movement of joystick) does not work. Actually I like Korg's joysticks better than Roland's - they are better quality and smoother in operations. However, I like Roland JV sounds much better especially those patches from the additional sound boards.

Paul Ip

Morphyx!

As i virtually make the same music as you do, i perhaps can but this in the same point of view.

What caught me with the XP-30 was first the enourmous sound-quality of the patches. I actually was out browsing, and the XP was the only one i hadn't listened to in the store so i sleepily asked for a pair of headphones from the manager. Woom! I stood there for 2 hours and couldn't get away from the damned thing. It ended up with that i, in a state of trance, walked right up to the salesman and bought it. Right off. I didn't even plan to invest in a synth at all.

Now, afterwards, i am very happy about it. For your/mine kind of music it has some amazing pads and very nice analogue background "noises". If you use strings, which i do excessively, you are in for a mean string machine; the onboard Orchestral expansion is amazing.

And when you get to know it a little better, it can be toyed with alot. I also have a Korg N5, which i love for it's pads and soundscapes, you should look to it as well since it is much much cheaper and could perhaps buy both.

I just need to get my XP to function properly with my Cakewalk, other than that i adore it. It is well worth the money, and i don't think Triton will make THAT much a difference to you, seeing what kind of user you are. Save the money and buy two synths instead, is my advice. Among them, the XP-30.

Morphyx, if all you are getting is one
synth, get the Triton.

It's sampler will keep you up to date for a long, long time.

Also, dont forget that the Triton can be upgraded with the incredible MOSS physical analogue modelling card, and it has expansion cards.

Also, the xp-30 has a very annoying decay-grunge defect at the end of the notes.

If your going for the all in one sytnh, get the triton. I have seen the 61 key version of the triton going for $1900. US.


If you ever get tired of the Tritons sounds, just sample away.

...an "annoying decay-grunge defect" that only arvon can hear. take his advice with a grain of salt. he's played one, which may or may not have been defective, for all of about half an hour, and now takes it upon himself to remind roland users on a daily basis all over the net that he has nothing better to do than complain about a product he does not even own. I, personally, am on a religious crusade to tell people all over the world to stop drinking Pepsi (I'm a Dr. Pepper drinker) because I took a sip of one once and it was flat. If I didn't know better, I would think he works for a competitor.

If you find that there are a few patches you don't care for, there are about 1500 others to choose from. Besides, Tritons loose their punch in sequencer mode (btw, the sequencer can't handle sysex), the pianos suck, the sampler is very basic, the case is all cheap plastic, and they cost more than twice as much.

Looks like syrup dude has been consuming a bit too much "syrup" eh?


As for me being the only one hearing the decay issue, go to :

www.harmony-central.com and click on the synth database for the xp-30 and 60. There are other people who have this problem as well.

Also try sonicstate.coms synth database. YOu will see complaints of this noise in there as well.


And for your information syrup, I had the 60 for 28 days before I returned it.


Also, the Tritons case is plastic on the ends(just like xp's).


Lets not forget that the Tritons effect section is worth 500 dollars in and of itself. YOu can even hook up other instruments(and your own voice) to its effects unit and output them to a recording device. LEts not also forget the SCCI option, which allows the Triton to be hooked up to a hard disk.

Also, the Triton has a fab ribbon controller, and an x/y joystick UNLIKE the xp's.

It also has a sampler.
The synth engine is not as complex as the xp's, but that is remedied in one fail swoop by picking up the MOSS synth card, which in turn surpasses the xp's synth engine capabilities.

As for the sounds loosing their punch, thats because you need to manually copy the effects to the sequencer. THey dont automatically follow the sound to the sequencer.

Lets not forget the DUAL arpeggiator.

Look, I like the roland xp's, but the grunge issue is ridiculous. The xp's are way overpriced for what you get, and sound a little bit dated to me.

I would have kept my xp-60 though had they fixed the grunge issue.

Until now, I have not gone to the website Arvon mentioned--I took him for his word. But he keeps complaining about the grunge decay problem, so I checked out the website. I scanned the user reviews and all appeared to be very satisfied with their XPs. All the reviews for sound quality showed high praise.

Perhaps I am missing something, but I agree with Syrupdude, Arvon probably had a defective unit. I just can't hear the problem he is talking about. My JV-2080 is stellar.

I guess it depends on the other gear you are using. I have a D-50, D-70 and an S-760, as well as the JV-2080. I can't say enough good things about what that unit has allowed me to accomplish. I was involved with a CD project that used JV-1080's virtually, until mixdown. The results were, in my opinion, very good. To check it out go to: www.entityprod.com Look for the Midnight Syndicate "Born of the Night" CD. There are a few tracks you can listen to on the site.

I did sound effects for that CD, and am very critical with regards to sound. Noisey presets and outputs really bother me. I just don't have that problem with the JV-2080.

My advice, as others have already said, is to spend the money you would have spent on the Triton and get two synths. If people would spend the time to program their synths, they would find that there are quite a few capable synths out there. Presets only show so much of a synths capabilities these days.

I like the Korgs, but I really believe that they are overpriced for what you get. I have heard alot about the sampler feature, but in all honesty, not many people sample their own sounds anyway. I do like the capability to do so, but you could use a computer nowadays to do a much better job, to shape the samples, than a stand alone unit, let alone one in a keyboard synth.

Also, I don't buy into the idea that you have to spend an arm and a leg to get quality products, as all professional gear are designed for the long haul. Try to find the quality available in a consumer keyboard, and then complain about the decay grunge of the sound. Don't get caught up in the idea that one keyboard is infinitely better than another because it is newer and costs more. If I had a certain amount of money to spend, I would try to get the most for my money. One single unit is not the most bang for the buck, as far as I am concerned.

Would I own a Triton? Maybe if it were cheaper, but I wouldn't overlook the Roland quality gear. In my opinion, you can't go wrong with Roland gear. I believe that Korg is always behind in the game with respect to keyboard products. For example, when the XPs and JVs were 64 note polyphony, the Trinity was still only 32. With all the cool things that the Trinity's were supposed to do, you couldn't put together a whole song arrangement using only the sound engine and the sequencer. If that is the only synth you owned, you would have to record the parts to physical tracks, in order to gain more notes of polyphony.

Sure the Triton may be the flavor of this month, but Roland is sure to come up with something at the NAMM show. If you have the patience, you may want to wait to see what all the manufacturers come out with.

I guess it just depends on what you really want...only you can decide that.

I would say the from a money standpoint, the Trinity is the best deal. It's going for about $1500 right now and is really a great deal. The 61 key is still in production right now along with all expansions. I think what has made it so popular is the cleanliness of the sounds. The acoustic guitar is wonderful. The strings are great and its effects are right there with the Triton. If you totally deck out a Trinity with SCSI/Flashrom/Moss Board exp. you will basically have a Triton, just without the Sampler. I think it works great as a standalone synth. It has a touchscreen and doesn't have all the pages to turn through. I know it may have seemed a little expensive a few years back, but you have to try it out for yourself. As for the limited polyphony, I think sound quality makes up for this. Remember, sometimes less is more!!!

Dano--

What the heck are you talking about?

Did you even BOTHER to read the sites at the links I posted?


Go to harmony-central.com, go to synth database, and read the reviews for the xp-60, xp-30, jv 2080, and 80.


Do the same for sonicstate.com and go to the synthzone.

You know what? Let me provide you with DIRECT links and QUOTES so you dont have trouble AGAIN:


Review from
http://harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Roland/JV-2080-01.html


Price Paid: 2,100 SFr
Ease of Use: 8
Good

Features: 8
Good. Limited polyphony (64) for such an otherwise powerful synth.

Expressiveness/Sounds: 8
Good.

Reliability: 1
My JV-2080, bought in June 98, has a shocking decay noise problem (most likely in the D/A converters) which makes it unfortunately unsuitable for serious studio work. I have heard of other users with similiar D/A converter noise problems as well, so it's obviously something that Roland has not yet fixed.

Customer Support: 1
My 2080 is in the shop now getting (hopefully) the problem mentioned above fixed. Will let you know how Roland rates...

Overall Rating: 1
At the moment, with its serious D/A converter noise bug, I cannot recommend the JV-2080 to any serious musician. I can only hope that after it returns fixed from the workshop, it will finally become an extremely useful studio tool, as otherwise its sounds, its expansion capabilities and ease of use are very good.

Submitted by David at 11/21/1998 22:59


------------------------------------------

taken from harmony again at:
http://harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Roland/XP-30-01.html

Overall Rating: 9
The grunge in my XP-30 was not a system-level problem, the output stage was defective. My service tech replaced a couple of parts and the problem went away! Curiously, this was the second XP-30 exhibiting the problem (the first I returned to the store)

Price Paid: N/A
Ease of Use: N/A
I seem to have stirred up a bitof contraversy with my review of the XP-30 by stating there was observable digital grunge in the samples. Several readers and XP-30 owners took issue with my statements, so I feel a more detailed update is in order. I haven't had time to complete my investigation, so here's what I plan to do - I'll create some WAV files of the offending patches and post them on my Web site for your perusal and rebuttal (I really hope there is something amiss with my synth, or my eras, but this is the second one to have the symptoms!) The peculiar sound around G1 has been traced, and I'm embarassed to admit was a resonance from a jar of writing implements! But the grunge factor is still a problem for me. It appears at this writing to be a form of IM distortion, or harmonic interaction. I'll keep you posted.
David Kempton davidk@thesoundsmith.com

Submitted by Anonymous at 06/06/1999


Ease of Use: 7
The XP-30 is probably the greatest sounding box out there right now for the money if you plan to take it live, but there is a significant amount of digital grunge in many of the samples, like they compressed them a little too far. Some of the sounds exhibit no trace of this, while others are really quite annoying, especially around G1.
Editing is as straightforward as any Roland product (about average for the current generation)

Features: 9
64-voice polyphony is used quickly in multitimbral performances, so set your voice reserves carefully. The effects are very good in general. The two expansion slots took cards from my XP-80 with no problem. Aftertouch is good (and adjustable). The slider assignment capabilities are really useful if you are controlling external modules. Eachslider can accept a system-wide assignment (not patch-by-patch, but what do you expect for under a grand street price?)

Expressiveness/Sounds: 7
Great nylon guitar, double-reed, bones, string sections, ambient and tek sounds. Very good electric guitars, church organs, cellos/bass. Adequate flute, pianos, electric pianos, clavs. The Hammonds suck. Onboard fx help a lot. Good response and feel.

Reliability: 7
Dependability with Roland is generally very good, I've only had this a short time so can't be objective. WOuld I use it on a gig without a backup? Of course, I'm not Herbie Hancock! I can't afford 2 of everything...

Overall Rating: 8
I have about a dozen other keyboards and modules, have been playing a long while. I buy my keyboards as system components, not stand-alone units. I got this to act as a live adjunct to an acoustic piano gig with drummer/vocalist and sequencer. I wanted better quality sounds than we currently get (he uses an SC-88 and the sounds, to me, are cheesy.) This is a significant upgrade to the sound quality.
I wish it were as clean as my XP-80; as soon as I have time, I intend to check out another unit at a music store to see if this is endemic, or if I got a noisy one (but I don't think I did...) Generally, it's a fine machine for its price point.
If anyone who owns one listens closely in a studio (or really quiet) context and can tell me there's no trailing grunge on any patches, I'd love to hear fropm you while I'm still under warranty.


-------------------


more from hamrony central at:


http://harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Roland/XP-60-01.html


Ease of Use: 6
Easy as can be. The sequencer is a pain..but the board is only a few weeks old. I will get the hang of it(if I keep it).

Editing patches is a piece of cake.

The manual is helpful in starting a campfire.

Features: 8
The Keyboard action feels GREAT. I dig it. Polyphony is nice as well.

The effects sound good enough to me. I would like to be able to employ deep hall2 reverb AND a delay, but what can you do.

The expansion slots are a nice feature. However, I heard a few of the expansion boards and I amn not impressed with them.

The pressure sensitivity on the keys is excellent. Aftertouch and velocity is great.

Like I said before, the onboard sequencer is escaping me at the moment, because my xp-60 is at a certified roland tech for a "little" decay problem.

Expressiveness/Sounds: 1
Most of the sounds are crap, but thats ok. The synth engine is very deep, and I have already pulled some crazy stuff out of it with only a few days. HEY ROLAND DITCH THe DARN SAX SOUNDS. THEY SOUND LIKE A DROWNING DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think the xp-60's sounds cover a wide variety of styles. Thats whats so nice about it. Most of the bland sounds can be fiddled with to be made very good.

The onboard effects are good, but a little limited.


heres the major problem:


My xp-60 has a grunge-static noise on notes with alot of sustain.
Add in a little reverb, and its downright ANNOYING. Try one of the accoustic guiatr patches, or a sharp piano. Make sure the effects and chorus buttons are enabled. I first noticed this when in my quiet home with a pair of studio quality headphones. It is balatant in a quiet environment. It seems this problem would render the xp-60 USELESS for quieter passages in the studio.

I like this keyboard, I like it alot. If Roland can fix this problem for free, I will keep it. If not, I still have 14 days to returnt it to the store for a full refund.

I dropped it off at an official roland tech here in the Chicago area.
I then called roland customer support, and was basically yelled at and insulted. In fact, all net users in general were insulted.

I told the rep that the xp-80, and 50 did NOT have this problem. HE told me I was wrong. He said he owned an xp-80 and it was fine. I told him the problem wasnt with the xp-80, and that it was the 60 I was calling about. He told me "if you have to be in a quiet room to hear it, whats the problem"?

He basically started to raise his voice, and sigh dramatically. He told me he was going to hang up if I was going to argue with him. My voice was level and even tempered the entire time. He then said he just saw a lady play an xp-60 in a large auditorium, and he didnt hear anything, ect. HE then said that "noise" is an inherent design of the roalnd 1080 line. I told him I already knew that , and that this type of noise was a DEFECT grunge-static noise on notes with alot of sustain ect, and not the usual sample-go round noise at the end of alot of synths.

HE told me to call back after I talked with the certified Roland tech, which should be tomorrow.

This was easily the worst customer service encounter I have ever had, with any manufacturer, ANYWHERE, for ANY product.

Excuse me if I dont want my 1500$ sytnh sounding like a 10 dollar pc soundcard.

I bough the keyboard two weeks ago. A few days after that, I noticed the noise. Since I like the keyboard, I decided to see if Roland would fix it for free first so that I could just keep it. Most people if they encounterd a faulty product would take it back and get a refund immediately. I however, decided to put my faith in Roland as a company, and give them the benefit of the doubt. I assumed they would handle this situation with aplomb and class. I figured it would not be a hassle. Sure, messing around with techs and customer sevice with something you just bought IS a hassle, but like I said, I liked the board. I thought it would be worth it.

So, I have 14 days to return it and get a refund. If roland will not recognize or fix this problem by then, I will get a refund.

I probably will pocket the money and wait a few months to see what pops up on the market. Im not too enmamored with the Triton, or any other synth for under 2k really, except for the xp-60.

The xp-60 WOULD have been an excellent little controller and creator along with my sampler and software sequencer.

The ball is in Rolands court now....they have 14 days to act in good faith for a loyal customer.

But instead, I get a pouty, winning customer service rep. HE tells me " you cant speak with my boss because it is the christmas rush" ??????????


Sorry Roland, you get a big fat 1 for sounds. This MAY change if you stand behind your products and FIX them.

Reliability: 1
The xp-60 is worhtless as a studio synth.

Customer Support: 2
Roland customer support is the worst I have ever experienced, for ANY product, by ANY manufacturer I have ever witnessed.

Overall Rating: 2
If it were lost or stolen, and I knew the decay issue would be fixed? I would get it again.

I have been playing for several years.

I love the synthesis engine, the bender, the realtime controls, the keyboard feel, the aftertouch/velocity ect.

I hate the decay grunge and roland customer support. Truly a frightening experience.

DO NOT BUY AN XP-60 unitl this issue is resolved. Check them out at the store with a GOOD pair of headhones on a non-busy day.

Roland customer service is not recommended. TheW ORST customer service I have EVER encountered, for ANY product, by ANY manufacture

another review from same site:

Price Paid: US $1550
Overall Rating: 2
Hi, Note: this is just an update to my previous review. What I'm referring to is the decay noise problem that is common to new Roland keyboard and module products. I have contacted Roland on this problem and they told me: "This problem is inherent of the machine you are using. The XP-60, 80, & JV-2080 all use 18-bit converters so they have a brighter and clearer sound thus exposing noise on the decay of notes in some patches. The JV-1080 and XP-50 use 16-bit converters and have a darker sound so you don't hear the noise." This is the explanation Roland gave but, I think it's just an excuse for inferior sounding converters on supposedly superior keyboards and modules. I then asked if Roland saw this decay noise issue as a problem and if so, were they currently working on a fix. Here's what I got: "We've contacted Japan on this subject but, we haven't heard a response yet." I asked what do they suggest I do in the mean time (I already told the tech I have a 1080 and didn't notice the problem there). Another quote folks: "Use your 1080 for intro parts and quieter passages." I tested another r XP-60 in another state and city (I was just on a business trip), same problem. Here are a few patches that can be auditioned which have a louder noise problem than most. PR-A 072 Fantasia JV, 084 Wave Bells, 086 Beauty Bells. PR-B 112 Alto Sax. Note: Be sure to have all the internal effects on and listen through quality headsets - preferably some place quiet. I think I should let everyone know that I am not a Roland basher and I have been a Roland and Boss user since 1989 (D-20). I guess I am more disappointed than anything. I use to look forward to new Roland products knowing that they would be the standards by which all others would be judged. I hope Roland doesn't incorporate these same "brighter & clearer 18-bit converters" into new products. For now I still use the XP-60 along with the JV-1080 for all of my synth sounds. I returned the E-MU Proteus 2000 for another JV-1080. I have plans to expand it with the newest cards. I hope this clears up any confusion. Tyrone Oliver

Submitted by Tyrone Oliver at 05/31/1999 09:41

Price Paid: US $1550.00
Ease of Use: 8
I am using an XP-60 with ROM ver. 1.10. The presets sound pretty good (standard Roland sound set - 1080, 2080, XP-50 & 80). Editing the pathches is not too hard because of the excellent graphic display. The manual is very general and too "formal" - It reads like Airforce Tech Data (very dry). Roland should hire an american company to write a better manual, ala "XP-60 for Dummies" ect...

Features: 9
64 voice polyphony with standard keyboard action (nothing to brag on). Good effects, very easy to use. Excellent expansion capabilties. I have the Orchestral, Vintage synth, 60's & 70's, & Hip-Hop cards - love them all! Sequencer is pretty good but I use an Akai MPC2000 to sequence so I never bother it and it never bothers me. This is basically a 61 key ver. of the XP-80.

Expressiveness/Sounds: 1
Sounds are generally good for all types of music. Very responsive to aftertouch. Effects are good and very programmable. Now here's what's wrong with it. IT HAS A TERRIBLE DECAY NOISE PROBLEM THAT IS VERY AUDIBLE ON PATCHES WITH ALOT OF SUSTAIN. THIS IS AUGMENTED IF THE PATCH USES ONBOARD REVERB. I DIDN'T NOTICE THIS IN THE STORE BECAUSE MUSIC STORES ARE LOUD AND I WAS ALREADY FAMILIAR WITH THE SOUND SET FROM USING A JV-1080. I PRIMARILY MONITOR WITH HEADSETS (SONY MDR-7506) AND FOUND THIS TERRIBLE PROBLEM WHILE SEQUENCING A HARP SOLO. I INITIALLY THOUGHT IT WAS IN THE INTERNAL EFFECTS UNIT SO I CUT IT OFF AND THE DECAY NOISE IS STILL THERE. IT SOUNDS LIKE A CHEAP 8-BIT SOUND CARD - VERY FUZZY AND STATICY AND THE END OF NOTES WITH LONG SUSTAIN. I INVESTIGATED THIS PROBLEM BY TESTING ANOTHER XP-60 - SAME PROBLEM. I TESTED A JV-1080 AND NO PROBLEM - VERY CLEAN. I TESTED A JV-2080 AND THERE IS A DECAY NOISE PROBLEM, BUT NOT AS LOUD AS THE XP-60. THE XP-80 I CHECKED DID NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM - SOUNDED AS GOOD AS THE JV-1080. I CANNOT RECOMMEND THIS SYNTH TO ANYONE TO USE AS A PRO. SYNTH. BUT AT THE STREET PRICE OF $1,500, ITS COST IS CERTAINLY PRO. THIS NOISE PROBLEM HAS FORCED ME TO LOOK ELSEWHERE FOR SYNTH SOUNDS, SO INSTEAD OF BUYING A 1080 I GOT A PROTEUS 2000 WITH VERY GOOD AND CLEAN (NO DECAY NOISE) SOUNDS. I JUST USE THE XP-60 AS A CONTROLLER AND BACKING SOUNDS. IT'S A DAMN SHAME A KEYBOARD WITH SO MUCH POTENTIAL COULD FAIL IN AN AREA AS CRITICAL SOUND QUALITY. NOT RECOMMENDED, GET A JV-1080 OR PROTEUS 2000!

Reliability: 8
I think it will hold up. I do notice how newer Roland keyboards feel cheaper then say a D-50 or a D-20. Gotta cut costs somehow I guess. Too bad Roland decided to go with cheaper D/A converters on it's flagship Modual and Mid-priced workstations

Customer Support: 1
On my attempt to reach Roland to adress this problem I looked in the back of the manual and called 213-685-5141. The area code change to 323 - no problem... o.k. 323-685-5141.... "The number you have dailed is disconnected" It figuers, i'm sure no one at Roland will admit to this problem and probably just blow me off.

Overall Rating: 1
This would have been the workstation to end all workstations as far as price and features go. But the bottom line is this; how good does it sound. Most competing synth companies can't compare with Rolands sound set and features but with Shitty D/A converters your beautiful Roland sounds end up sounding like they were played though an 8-bit computer sound card. Everything was in the right place on this workstation except Roland dropped the ball and went with cheap D/A converters. Hint, Roland: YOU DON'T CUT CORNERS BY DEGRADING THE SOUND QUALITY, YOU DO IT BY CUTTING THE FEATURES. THIS SYNTH IS NOT RECOMMENDED FOR THE PROFFESIONAL/STUDIO MUSICIAN.

Submitted by T.Oliver at 05/10/1999 08:03

-------------------------------


From the Synthsite at :
http://www.sonicstate.com/synth_reviews/Roland_XP-60.cfm


Hi, Note: this is just an update to my previous review. What I'm referring to is the decay noise problem that is common to new Roland keyboard and module products. I have contacted Roland on this problem and they told me: "This problem is inherent of the machine you are using. The XP-60, 80, & JV-2080 all use 18-bit converters so they have a brighter and clearer sound thus exposing noise on the decay of notes in some patches. The JV-1080 and XP-50 use 16-bit converters and have a darker sound so you don't hear the noise." This is the explanation Roland gave but, I think it's just an excuse for inferior sounding converters on supposedly superior keyboards and modules. I then asked if Roland saw this decay noise issue as a problem and if so, were they currently working on a fix. Here's what I got: "We've contacted Japan on this subject but, we haven't heard a response yet." I asked what do they suggest I do in the mean time (I already told the tech I have a 1080 and didn't notice the problem there). Another quote folks: "Use your 1080 for intro parts and quieter passages." I tested another r XP-60 in another state and city (I was just on a business trip), same problem. Here are a few patches that can be auditioned which have a louder noise problem than most. PR-A 072 Fantasia JV, 084 Wave Bells, 086 Beauty Bells. PR-B 112 Alto Sax. Note: Be sure to have all the internal effects on and listen through quality headsets - preferably some place quiet. I think I should let everyone know that I am not a Roland basher and I have been a Roland and Boss user since 1989 (D-20). I guess I am more disappointed than anything. I use to look forward to new Roland products knowing that they would be the standards by which all others would be judged. I hope Roland doesn't incorporate these same "brighter & clearer 18-bit converters" into new products. For now I still use the XP-60 along with the JV-1080 for all of my synth sounds. I returned the E-MU Proteus 2000 for another JV-1080. I have plans to expand it with the newest cards. I hope this clears up any confusion. Tyrone Oliver

another from same site...........


Ease of Use: 8 I am using an XP-60 with ROM ver. 1.10. The presets sound pretty good (standard Roland sound set - 1080, 2080, XP-50 & 80). Editing the pathches is not too hard because of the excellent graphic display. The manual is very general and too "formal" - It reads like Airforce Tech Data (very dry). Roland should hire an american company to write a better manual, ala "XP-60 for Dummies" ect...

Features: 9 64 voice polyphony with standard keyboard action (nothing to brag on). Good effects, very easy to use. Excellent expansion capabilties. I have the Orchestral, Vintage synth, 60's & 70's, & Hip-Hop cards - love them all! Sequencer is pretty good but I use an Akai MPC2000 to sequence so I never bother it and it never bothers me. This is basically a 61 key ver. of the XP-80.

Expressiveness/Sounds: 1 Sounds are generally good for all types of music. Very responsive to aftertouch. Effects are good and very programmable. Now here's what's wrong with it. IT HAS A TERRIBLE DECAY NOISE PROBLEM THAT IS VERY AUDIBLE ON PATCHES WITH ALOT OF SUSTAIN. THIS IS AUGMENTED IF THE PATCH USES ONBOARD REVERB. I DIDN'T NOTICE THIS IN THE STORE BECAUSE MUSIC STORES ARE LOUD AND I WAS ALREADY FAMILIAR WITH THE SOUND SET FROM USING A JV-1080. I PRIMARILY MONITOR WITH HEADSETS (SONY MDR-7506) AND FOUND THIS TERRIBLE PROBLEM WHILE SEQUENCING A HARP SOLO. I INITIALLY THOUGHT IT WAS IN THE INTERNAL EFFECTS UNIT SO I CUT IT OFF AND THE DECAY NOISE IS STILL THERE. IT SOUNDS LIKE A CHEAP 8-BIT SOUND CARD - VERY FUZZY AND STATICY AND THE END OF NOTES WITH LONG SUSTAIN. I INVESTIGATED THIS PROBLEM BY TESTING ANOTHER XP-60 - SAME PROBLEM. I TESTED A JV-1080 AND NO PROBLEM - VERY CLEAN. I TESTED A JV-2080 AND THERE IS A DECAY NOISE PROBLEM, BUT NOT AS LOUD AS THE XP-60. THE XP-80 I CHECKED DID NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM - SOUNDED AS GOOD AS THE JV-1080. I CANNOT RECOMMEND THIS SYNTH TO ANYONE TO USE AS A PRO. SYNTH. BUT AT THE STREET PRICE OF $1,500, ITS COST IS CERTAINLY PRO. THIS NOISE PROBLEM HAS FORCED ME TO LOOK ELSEWHERE FOR SYNTH SOUNDS, SO INSTEAD OF BUYING A 1080 I GOT A PROTEUS 2000 WITH VERY GOOD AND CLEAN (NO DECAY NOISE) SOUNDS. I JUST USE THE XP-60 AS A CONTROLLER AND BACKING SOUNDS. IT'S A DAMN SHAME A KEYBOARD WITH SO MUCH POTENTIAL COULD FAIL IN AN AREA AS CRITICAL SOUND QUALITY. NOT RECOMMENDED, GET A JV-1080 OR PROTEUS 2000!


http://www.sonicstate.com/synth_reviews/Roland_X80-1.cfm :

Rating: 5 out of 5 posted Sunday, 14-Nov-99 at 21:36
John Bennett Jnjben@juno.com a hobbyist user from USA writes:
Great synth. Sometimes I've had problems with the timing of the sequencer. Sent it into Roland and they upgraded it for free. That helped quite a bit. But it still has a bit of a problem
Right now the greatest problem that I have is a distorted decay that trails the reverb. If you listen closely at least to my box you can hear it.

When I record it I just turn off the reverb and record with outboard reverb and that takes care of it.

Some people don't like the drum sounds --- hint get the drums and bass card that will give you a lot to work with and then tweak like crazy.


It's a pretty deep machine and there's lots of areas that I've never taken time to discover.

I'm sure that eventually that I'll wish that I had waited to get a newer or better machine. They all sound great, and they all have cool features, but I've been using the xp series since '95 and considering costs and everything I'm pretty pleased.

God bless you guys and happy music making


---------------------------------------


Well DANO, there it is. How did you ever have such a hard time finding comments that echo mine on the links I mentioned?



You claim that I am "wrong" and that I am the only one who has heard this problem. Well, it looks like you are the one who is wrong.

You claimed there were not ANY reviews concerning the defect-grunge decay issue on the links I provided earlier. Why?

Why would you lie about something like that? Do you work for Roland?


I wonder if any other false comments are in your post...................

I believe there might be some units of XP-30's being defective. I can't say what everyone else has experienced. What i can say, though, is that my XP-30 has none of the above mentioned problems, joyfully enough. It sounds crisp as crystal, and i wouldn't want to have any other synth for the equal amount of cash.

Just a mention.

Well Arvon, I stand corrected. I guess I looked in the wrong section of the reviews for the grunge effect. That still doesn't prove to me that my JV-2080 or other production units have that same defect. I never noticed this problem. No matter how much you try, you will not sway my opinion about Roland products.

I am sorry to hear that you have nothing better to do than to crusade against Roland gear. I don't know if I am alone here, but I have never had a problem with sound quality on my Roland gear. I have grown to rely on it.

It sure seems to me that you had to dig deep to find those few people who had the problems you described.

Tell you what, why don't you send me any of your Roland gear, since you obviously have a vendetta against the company. I would be happy to have it.

I do not wish to get into a heated debate on the grunge decay issue, because that is not the original point anyway. Respond how you must, but I have better things to do with my time, and quite frankly, I don't care if you had a problem with Roland. I never had a problem with them, and that's all that counts to me. Now let's make some music.

[This message has been edited by DanO (edited 12-29-1999).]

Funny. The longest post that Arvon copied sure does bear a striking resemblance to his own writing style. Look at the way he does a double return after every sentence or so. And his peculiar way of addressing the post to roland. Notice how the posts seem to choose the same phraseology for "digital grunge" and the fact that several of them keep referring to that same accoustic guitar patch. I think this whole thing is an invention of one guy who scours the net, posting as different people.

Look how defensive he got at the end of his post... and all this over a product he doesn't even own. He's more concerned with appearing "right" than "sane". This guy has definitely flipped the bozo bit. I wonder how much time he spends on this little pursuit of his.

Hey Syrup, didnt your doctors tell you that NyQuil should only be taken for a few days?


If you think those posts are all from me, then you are indeed the true conspiracist looney.


You must work for Roland.

Only someone who works for Roland could wonder why you spend so much time on your digital grunge crusade? You have to admit that you're prolific in your anti-roland postings. Why do you care so much? I'm genuinely curious. Do you do this for every company that makes a product you don't like? I'm just wondering why you haven't gotten over it yet.

But my question is when roland has a new board they have to advertise another souund card for $250,when the tritions cime fully loaded for $200 more.

And I love Roland

Don't get me wrong. I actually like the Triton. But where do you come up with $200 difference to get a fully loaded Triton? zzounds.com has the 61 key for 2199, the pcms for 169 each, and the moss board for 479. That comes to over $3000 Granted, you're talking about more features than anything roland has to offer... but you're going to pay more than $200 to get them. Getting back to the xp-30, 900-1000 bucks gets you a pretty good keyboard for that amount of money. For strictly amateurs, and for people like me who need their money put towards new cars, roland is the best option out there.

BTW, I was kinda hoping arvon would reply back. seems the fun is over. I have to confess that I noticed his email address for his profile here happens to be the same one at the bottom of the harmony-central posting (which was conveniently not copied along with the rest of it).

Is that you Syrup dude? I figured you would still be at the store buying your daily supply of Nyquil...........

Roland does make decent stuff.
I had a d-10 that I felt was excellent.

In my opinion, not even the xp's can compare with the D series.

The xp-30 is a good deal for what you get. But paying 1400 for an xp60 and 1800 for a xp-80 that have sound quality issues is not cool.

In fact, the 30 is probably the best thing out there for under 1500k.

I now own a Triton, and to me, it is far superior to the 60.

I've figured it out, guys...Arvon45 is the Smoking Man and the 2nd gunman on the Grassy Knoll!!!

*morphyx enters the room in full asbestos flak jacket and kevlar helmet*
*a-hem* Thankyou for all your help,...youve all convinced me to buy the EMU Proteus 2000. 128 vc poly/32 midi chan/32 meg rom included 4 expansion slots/4 realtime knobs etc. $749. Happy flaming one another. morphyx

[This message has been edited by morphyx (edited 01-26-2000).]