"Perceptive"

Sounded great to me.

The string buzzing is a personal thing though. I loved it as it frees you from that fake perfect world you get from keyboard sounds. But while listening to it my wife who is a Guitar player commented on it and said it sounded awful.

Just goes to show I guess.

Regards.
James.

Hey folks guess what..., like it or not the guitar sound on EVERY keyboard out there regardless of who the maker is "IS NOT" designed to fool anyone but the keyboard player! Sure some of these guitar patches on keyboards today are quite good and offer a lot of realism with all the velocity switching.., but it's really designed to fool YOU the keyboard player.

That's my problem I've had with some of these more recent guitar patches on keyboards. I've taken heat just for pointing out problems in some guitar patches where specific nuances don't sound right at times, and in some cases DON'T BELONG there or do not happen on the REAL instrument in that way.

Here's a good example.., if you play a standard D, G, A, chord progession on a keyboard with these modern guitar patches.., and playing it NOTE FOR NOTE as it's done on a guitar with 6 STRINGS and not a 2 fisted approach (as many keyboardists often do). If you hear ANY string noise between those chord changes.., well guess what WROOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGG!!!!! Playing this chord progression on an acoustic guitar in the STANDARD playing position.., you will move from one chord to the next WITHOUT moving your hand up and down the guitar neck. All those chords can be played from the standard position WITHOUT moving your hand. If your keyboard is adding string noise between these chord changes on those basic chords it's WRONG!

My problem that I'v always brought up is that keyboard makers need to be careful in how they add these nuances because (as we've CLEARLY seen and heard here before from a member in the past).., when a keyboardist hears the REAL instrument.., they may think the REAL instrument is the FAKE because it sounds nothing like their keyboard (and the keyboard maker can't possibly get it wrong..., right?).

As much as I like Roland..., when I first saw and heard Ed Diaz's demo on the Roland site showcasing Roland's guitar mode.., it just left a sour taste in my mouth. The concept of the guitar mode was awesome.., but the guitar patch was just TERRIBLE because on many notes when he arp'ed a lick it sounded like a very inexperienced player was on the guitar who didn't know how to hold down a string all the way or the players guitar had frets pulling up out of place all over the neck as fret buzzing was very present.

If you're not a guitar player and you're playing one of these more modern heavily velocity switched guitar patches..., you just may think WOW.., I can hear the string vibrating on the frets.., or how cool is this I can hear the players fingers sliding up and down the neck between chord changes, ect. The reality folks is IN THE REAL world guitarists don't want fret buzzing..., and many are picky in the amount of string noise they have in their recordings. It sounds more authentic to YOU the keyboard player because well.., the majority are not guitar players and the keyboard makers job is to fool YOU not a guitar player.

Perhaps if someone of you guys actually picked up a guitar and learned a few chords and how the instrument actually fucntions you just may have a totally new outlook on these modern guitar patches on keyboards.

Sure we can fool OURSELVES with modern guitar patches.., but that's exactly what they're designed to do. FOOL US.., and everyone else in the audience WHO IS NOT a guitar player!

Just as IrishActs pointed out.., he liked it.., but his wife WHO IS A GUITAR PLAYER wasn't impressed..., again keep in mind the guitar patch posted here WAS NOT INTENDED to fool IrishActs wife.., but fool US KEYBOARD PLAYERS.




[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 04-16-2009).]

A guitar patch or mode on any keyboard is NOT there to fool the player... at least the experienced one! I don't believe that's it's purpose whatsoever. But it IS there to fool the inexperienced LISTENER. I don't know about you, but when I play a sax solo, or a flute solo, or any solo of an acoustic instrument, my goal isn't to fool an experienced player or listener. Well, OK, maybe it's a LITTLE bit of a goal, but at least I am realistic enough to realize this is very unlikely to happen!

However, my audience, on the whole, doesn't consist of flute players, sax players and guitarists. It consists of real people, out for a good time. So, the bar is a LOT lower. Let's be honest. Does anyone claim that even the keyboard sounds in their arrangers would fool an experienced ear? Put even our best piano sounds, or Rhodes, or Wurli, or B3 or Clavinet up against the real thing, and it's unlikely that you couldn't tell the difference.

But it fools the audience, especially, as Dennis did here, you play completely idiomatically. And THAT, not fooling the players of the real instrument, is the goal, isn't it? Nobody other than real guitarists honestly give a toss if the fret squeaks are in the right place or not. Just as long as they help give an IMPRESSION of the real thing...

So let's dial back the rhetoric a bit. Nobody with any real ears is ever going to miss this trickery. Except, of course, the people we are actually playing for, and who pay our bills

And that's good enough for me

This demo was to emphasise the additional layers on the Media Station native sound banks. More because some have complained these "nuanced" sounds were not available on the MS. That these were only the domain of Yamaha and Korg.

I deliberately played the notes harder to make these standout.

In this demo it was a bit too much,granted, but as I said before it was deliberate. It was more a demo of the Media Station patch than me playing a guitar or trying to fool people into thinking it was a real guitar player.

I wasn't going to, but I changed my mnd and decided to post a link to another demo I did for Dom last night...again it is a straight through audio recording of live play, NO editing of midi no audio editing apart from mixing the 2 tracks together and adding some rev.

I had to record two tracks because the chords guitar also need control notes to be used, and as I don't have THREE arms and hands I had to do two. One for the chords and one for the single note guitar. For those that are interested the link is: http://www.lionstracs.com/guest/dennis/TimeOfYourLife.mp3

And again it is only using patches available on the MS Giga banks. No VST's.

Dennis



[This message has been edited by miden (edited 04-16-2009).]

Hi miden.
I read your original post before any edits, and I have to say mate your way too hard on people here and yourself.

I don't think you understand what people are saying in general here.

I personally really liked your demo and the mere fact that you could over hit the notes is excellent in my opinion. It really shows off what is possible, and it gave a real world response from the sound. Not another perfect bubble keyboard sound.

So for what it's worth, I think your demo accomplished everything you wanted, and I personally enjoyed it. If the other sounds are like that in the Library, I'd love to buy it myself.

A Guitarist would hate the buzzing, but that's a different story. Do you honestly think there are many guitarists that even understand what a multisample is. Their needs are different than ours.

Hope you understand what I'm saying and keep on posting your demo's. Don't ever let anything said on a forum stop you from sharing your music.

Some people will never be pleased no matter what, so when you do something don't do it for them. Do it for yourself and those interested.

Regards.
James.

Thanks James...Yes I agree with you it's why I changed it.

Thank you for you comments, and as you can see I posted another demo of Media Station patch/s.

By the way you were also spot on with your recommendation of True Pianos, excellent VST.

And for $145 USD (after Cakewalk discount) great value for money.

Dennis

Dennis,
Good to hear from you...I liked both demo's.
Shows some of the capabilities of the MS.

Thanks for posting them.....
Lee S.

I've been down this road before, but are we REALLY trying to FOOL our audience, or just make music that sounds good ?!? ... music that SOUNDS LIKE another instrument other than a piano kb, but are we FOOLING anybody ??? ... all anyone would have to do is LOOK to see that we are not playing a guitar, trumpet, sax, whatever ...
And as Diki said, most (99.9% ?) of our audience is NOT going to think - "Oh that fret noise didn't belong there" ... c'mon ... let's get real ...Unless you are trying to create a recording to have the listener really BELIEVE he/she is listening to all those different instruments (and I don't think too many of us will be doing that), as long as it sounds good, what is all the fuss about ...

t.

Well, I don't know if 'fool' is quite the right term, but there's a radical difference for the listener between someone playing a guitar part idiomatically, and someone just playing their old piano licks or whatever...

And, to be fair, playing idiomatically is probably a hundred times more important than an accurate, multi-velocity split sound... whether the fret buzzes are in the right place or not. I think our audiences can pick up on a non-idiomatic performance far quicker than they can on the sound. Of course, once you have the idiomatic playing down cold, then the sound accuracy starts to become a bit more important. But, truth be known, if you can't give a pretty good impression of the instrument you are trying to emulate on what you already have, a more detailed set of samples isn't going to make you sound any better at all.