From Diki's Post "OK, first things first.... Dan. Every style you call up, you hit a button called 'Makeup Tools'. Every single style sound (irrespective of Part - sometimes there are multiple sounds, either in the same variation or in others) comes up in an individual widow there, easily scrolled through. In which, the Tone selection, Vol, Pan, Chorus, EQ, Reverb, Mute (so you can mute one sound within a Part, and have others sound), and most importantly, velocity offset (either plus or minus). Tweak here easily and fast. OK, now go to the drum Part (only one, sadly ). Firstly, you have all those global changes. Then in the same window, you can open up the Kit, and every drum sound has the same changes... Sound, Volume Pan,Reverb Chorus, EQ, and the all-important velocity offset (if you have multiple velocity sound drums, this is critical). Fix what you need, leave what you don't. Style sounds great now. OK... Now either save it as a new style, or overwrite the original. When saved as the original. all edits will now come up regardless of registration (UPG in Rolandspeak). Done. Fast. Easy. Graphically self-explanatory (never had to read the manual). "


Diki..basically the same thing with Ketron products. The G70 & Ketron is made in Italy, you don't think these guys look at what each other does ?

Different terminology, but same type of editing tools.

Your making way to big of a deal on ease of use for Roland products. Personally, I can't stand Rolands editing tools. However, navigation is practically the same with most arrangers.

You nit pick perceived navigation issues because you read certain things about Ketron..

It really comes down to the sound and that's an area that is personal choice.

As Don Mason said a long time ago, "it's the sound stupid" . If you don't like it, don't buy it.

[This message has been edited by DanO1 (edited 04-25-2009).]

Tom, i wouldnt agree with you, with all respect to you bro i dont think you know what
Style and Sound Editing really means, just by
reading your post.

On the Break issue, the Rolands do have an assignable Break, but they DO NOT have an effective Break/fill, like every other arranger has. The Roland break just stops everything. On other arrangers, the Break/fill is actually another style part and is different to fit different styles. With the Roland, instead of dealing with assigning it, I find it easier to just hit Stop and then the Sync start engages the style again when I want it--same thing. Still, it's a poor workaround. Many of the songs I do need Break/fills and to me this is the number one drawback of the Roland.
Regarding the on-the-go style editing, Ketrons are just as easy to use as Rolands, to me. It's extremely easy to switch sounds, volumes and drum kits. It has no overall one-button transformation like the Roland and I do find that very useful.
I also hate that there is no overall setting that allows you to change the default fingering mode of the factory styles without saving to registration (and then also changing and saving each OTS).
I've been using the Roland E50 for much longer than I intended. It does the job just fine as far as my listeners and employers are concerned, and for very little money. The trade-offs are no vocal processing or harmonizer, no aux ins, 61 notes, piano sounds not especially to my liking, no text display, no MP3 player for breaks, not e.q. to speak of. I take a laptop and mixer for some of these functions and Harmony M for vocals.
It will be nice to get it all in one package again when the Audya finally arrives.
Oh, did I mention I don't care whether anyone else likes the Audya, or can't justify it. I hope I buy the only one within 500 miles of me! I have heard it and played it and even in its unfinished state it sounded absolutely fantastic.
When playing Yamahas, I have actually had other players come in and say something like, "oh that is the Blues Rock style isn't it?"
Also must mention that I expect to have to make compromises with it too. For example I actually prefer joystick to wheels, and I don't like the location of the wheels on Audya. The fill buttons aren't optimally located either, but the foot switches can address that.
Finding styles to suit me has never been a problem with Ketron. Everything I have needed on past models has been on board or readily available. I expect it to be the same with Audya.
Sorry for the rambling. And I forgot to insult anybody too. I can fix that though--Captain Russ, you are a total idiot. Well not total, nobody's perfect.
DonM

DonM said:
"Sorry for the rambling. And I forgot to insult anybody too. I can fix that though--Captain Russ, you are a total idiot. Well not total, nobody's perfect."

Now that there is funny, I don't care who you are.
Wally

Wally ... give it a break will ya ? Get it ? break ?

Dan, you are right about the break/Fill. But that's NOT what you said in your post.

Secondly, the workaround for no Break fill is hit the Break button, wait a beat or so, then hit the Fill button. (when it's on an FC-7 - not an E50 option, although you can do it with MIDI pedals - it's a snap to do). Break/Fill, get it? Plus, that has the advantage of being different for each variation, whereas I think only the Audya has four B/F's, everything else has but the one. Mind you, the Audya has but four fills, to the Roland's six, so one step forward, one step back (but kudos to Ketron for being the first to realize you MIGHT want a different B/F in the chorus from the verse!)...

BTW, all those things you mentioned as being missed on your E50 are available on a G70 (except the MP3 playback), there are still a few new ones floating around here, but a good condition s/h one can be got for roughly $2k+. That would leave you $3000 change from a Ketron.

Oh, and in case you missed it over at R-A.com, there is software over there (the Session Manager) which can batch convert (or just one UPG at a time) ALL your ROM and User styles, and UPG's to any way you want them. Want ALL styles with Pianostyle, or Standard chord recognition? Want the split point default other than C3? Want the keyboard touch default different?

Piece of cake...

If the E50 is floating your audience's boat, imagine how much more floating they would be once you have a great harmonizer, per Part and per drum sound 3 band parametric EQ, stereo aux ins (with an entire MFX multi-effects dedicated to it), 76 of the finest keys made, IMO the best piano sound of ANY arranger... In fact, the very things you miss on the E50. But still $3000 LESS than the Audya.

That's the thing that gets me.

Oh, and of course, you can, with familiarity probably get around on the style editing stuff as well as a Roland... few others here have. I'm only repeating what actual OWNERS have said. I don't NEED to make this stuff up. But the thing that gets me is that the audio drums and guitars are pretty much completely uneditable. You can't change the sound on the snare, can't tune the toms if they clash with the key of the song, you can't EQ the kick. What you hear is what you'll get. Forever. Need the same style, but a different kick pattern, or a different snare placement, forget it.

The very thing that makes the Audya sound awesome (remember, I'm as in love with the SOUND as you are ) is the very thing that prevents you from changing anything.

Look, don't get me wrong... I would LOVE an Audya But only IF.... It was no more than a PA2Xpro, and the audio features worked as hyped, and there was SOME way to edit audio styles. Heck, if it had everything that makes the Roland's so good (and good enough for you and your audience despite using the cheapest Roland E you could buy!) and THEN added the rest, it MIGHT even be worth $5000 MAP.

But at the moment, it's two steps forward, two steps back (one for the price).

But I can't wait to hear it in your hands... you're a great player, and no doubt your audience will love it too. But will they love it $3750 more than the E50?

I played the G70 for three months. It's great as long as you don't have to move it. I'm old and have a bad back and bad wrist, so 50 Plus pounds is not an option.
I once bought a Yamaha organ that listed for $16,000. These things are cheap nowadays.
DonM

Audya 38 lbs. G70, 46 lbs. I doubt that 8 lbs. is a dealbreaker. Especially with the Audya almost 20 lbs. heavier than the E50.

Don't forget, it is crazy to put a $5000 arranger in a soft bag. You are going to need to protect that degree of investment with something solid, and unfortunately, heavy (or at least, heavier than a soft bag). More weight.

BTW, when you bought that $16,000 organ, was there anything comparable at half the price?

"Dan, you are right about the break/Fill. But that's NOT what you said in your post."

Diki.. I made a comment as to joke about the break fill comments.. Obviously, you didn't get it .

Here's what my last post kind of says,

Arrangers are all about navigation. I just don't see tremendous difference's in regards to pressing buttons, looking in the screen, then you press another button and somehow save it.

But personal taste in sound is the thing you can't change, your personal opinions will never change that.


[This message has been edited by DanO1 (edited 04-26-2009).]

Audya arrived and dissapeared, all of them sold, there wont be any for 2 months at least.