We've been playing with with a KB, guitar and bass and for some clubs we need to add a drummer for some clubs...

We want to keep the MIDI sequences for the great horns and synth parts.

Has anyone done this? Pitfalls? advice?

You shouldn't really have any problems especially as you don't have a drummer and will be using the MIDI drums as your timekeeper.

My band actually does this for for two songs we play that have a lot of machine like pulsing electronic dance synth parts ( Hella Good ( Gwen Stefani ) and Get This Party Started ( Pink ). We actually have a live drummer so the only tricky thing for us is to make sure they have a click track that he can use to follow or else it would all fall apart. We simply have a strong steady hi hat track that plays through. The audience don't notice it mixed in with the drums but the drummer can hear it clearly.

Because you don't have a drummer is should be very easy for you guys just to play along with the sequences. The only thing would be if there were long gaps with no drums or instrument to provide a count that would make it difficult to rejoin the sequence dead on time when it starts back up. In those cases I would recommend putting in a least some sort of hi hat or percussive track to provide a count. It wouldn't have to be obvious but just enough to keep you guys in time with the sequence and the audience really wouldn't care.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 05-03-2009).]

Two things. First, you have to find a drummer tight enough to play well with a click. Far fewer can actually do it than SAY they can do it.

Then your gear has to have a click out, and the drummer has to use headphones (looks dorky) or in-ear monitors. Trying to play to the track without the click mixed in is a recipe for disaster.

Sadly, at the club level, there are few drummers that can stay tight and locked to a track and click. This takes studio drummer skills. And not too many of them are much into club gigs unless VERY well paid. It only takes a bit of slop, a moment's inattention, and you have at best a really poor pocket to dance and play to, and at worst a train wreck...

Lastly, real drummers have a HUGE dynamic range compared to MIDI tracks. The tendency is to start to get a little frisky, and the next thing you know, your carefully mixed tracks are an inaudible, distant noise. I rarely EVER see MIDI acts (or karaoke MP3 acts) with live drummers that the keyboard track parts are loud enough. Maybe at the START of the set, but by the time a few songs have gone by, kiss them goodnight!

Now, don't get me wrong... it CAN be done. But personally, I wouldn't go with any drummer that hadn't already done CONSIDERABLE work in this format before. There are just too many things that can go wrong....

Sorry, Nigel... did you notice they said they wanted to ADD a drummer, not play with sequences that had drums in them...?

Thanks very much...

Yes we have _added a drummer_ and can do it as a 4 piece

without KB its just I'll miss the horn parts and/or we'll need to drasticlly revamp the set list.

Oops, oh yeah, I was thinking they just wanted to add drums rather than a live drummer. Well then they have just the same situation as my band does playing to MIDI files. Our drummer copes very well but you are right when you say it is not something all drummers are able to do easily. Basically they need a strong click track either in their drum monitor or headphones to keep them in time with the sequences. We do it using the drummer's monitor speakers. And because he plays a Roland VDrums kit the sound from his drumming doesn't drown out the click.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TP123:
[B]Thanks very much...

Yes we have _added a drummer_ and can do it as a 4 piece
I play in a band with a
Bas drummer and KB.And a singer.
Most inportand is that you have a independent click,like the Tyros 3,had a PA2x but it did`nt workt out very well.
Sometime I`ll use the multipad fore a single
solo on one instrument,you have to record it. Even some intros. I only uses the comp-
part,not the bas and drums.Ìt works fine.
//Tryggve

Can someone please 'splain' the whole click track thing?

Can a T1 generate a 'click track'?

Why not just keep the drums low until the drummer picks up the groove and go from there?

Most of all THANKS for reponding!

I think the next Synthzone Jam should be in Hawaii!

Allllllloha

I'm the keys half of a keys / drums / vocals duo. We use a lot of midi backing tracks for modern up-tempo stuff, because that gives us the sound people expect. All midi tracks are carefully edited (by me) to leave space for "live" keys and drums, we are not in the karaoke business!

There is not a click track as such but there's usually something to latch onto.

Initially keeping to such strict tempo is very hard and hugely frustrating, but it can be done with discipline and practise. Note that taking a tune from rehearsal to proper live action will accentuate any slight deviations as the adrenaline takes over, so be doubly careful!

I remember the first time I tried to play to a sequenced backing track, I was astonished to discover that my ability to keep to a strict tempo was total pants, given that I was telling the drummer off for excessive drifting!

You may find it necessary to adjust the tempo tracks to allow more give and take within a tune.

Good luck!

Great points... I can adjust tempo and volume on the fly...

but from talking with others it seem that some drummers can do it and some can't...

I was thinking he could just hear the drums I've already laid down and play over the top of them.

Try this. Play a piano part into the sequencer (no drums). Quantize it, make it tight. Now play ANOTHER piano part with it, but make it quieter than the track you are recording... Hard, isn't it? If you can't distinguish what YOU are playing and what is the track, it makes keeping time much harder.

It's REALLY hard to play drums to a drum track turned down, because you immediately swamp out what you are listening to. There's a reason they use click tracks for recording... it is because the sound is different to anything the drummer is playing.

Essentially, you need a separate output on your arranger from whatever the track is coming out of. I don't know if the Tyros HAS a separate click out, but if it has, you route that to the drummer's monitor, along with the track. Preferably, he has in ear monitors or headphones (you would be surprised at how loud he will need the click, if he is using speaker monitors, it will probably be loud enough that the audience would hear the click - not good!).

If the Tyros doers not have a click out, you will have to create a separate track on all the SMF's with a click sound every quarter note (crotchet), and route that to the auxiliary outs, and route THAT to the drummer's headphones.

Oh, and don't worry about creating a tempo track that 'moves' a bit. Either he can play to steady time or he can't. If he can't... his drift will be different every night so creating a track to match him will be an exercise in futility. Just keep the tempos exactly where yuou are already used to them. If he can't play with them, get another drummer!

They need this guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCQVCt_re5A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2wUPywzVVE&feature=related

Thanks...

Yep the ability to play along with pre-recorded music is paramont.

I'm hoping I/we'll also here from others who are intergrating
MIDI with live instruments.




[This message has been edited by TP123 (edited 05-05-2009).]

that guy is like a human metronome ... I wonder if he keeps that kind of time playing with a live band ...
... and that's quite a set of cymbals ...
t.



[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 05-05-2009).]

Takes a great drummer to play with a click and great drummers hate it. John Blackwell (off the hook R&B drummer) came into the store a few days ago and we chatted about the Timberlake tour and he was talking about playing with a click, The whole show was on a click. Needless to say he did not enjoy the tour as much as playing with Prince where HE is the click.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 05-05-2009).]

Our new drummer has the chops to pull it off...

but we'd appreciate any advice.

thanks

Like Diki said as long as you can get some sort of clear metronome click out to headphones for your drummer he will have a pretty good chance of tracking the MIDI files while plays. That will give him an audible timing reference that he can hear over the sound of his own drums.

But I can also understand if he isn't so thrilled about having a set of phones on his ears feeding him a click all night

But seriously try to give him some breaks where he plays some songs without the click as well just to be able relax a bit.

[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 05-05-2009).]

Any Tyros users know IF and how to route a click track signal?

Hello! The Tyros have a clickbutton on the panel.Route the sound to a separate aud.out
3 or 4. Can be done inside the Tyros.Give the clicktrack a separate channel on the mixer,send it only to the monitor or in ear.
now start the click,the drummer can count in,and you start as usually. And as we used to say..If any one doe`s a mistake,we will take the drumsticks from him.
After a while you wont hear the click,only when the drummer is sleeping,then you let him know there is a Lott of drummers out there.
I think this is the future for arrangers,it works fine,but you have to give it some time.
//Tryggve