Why don't we decide upon a song or two and have all interested SZers record their take on the song and then all post it to here or uTube on the same day. I'm not asking for a challenge or contest, but just a chance to hear the wide range of playing styles and voices out there. Arranger playing would be encouraged, but SMF use would be permitted if it was more than just karaoke.

Any comments?

.. slowly I turned.......

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 05-19-2009).]

Neat idea...
not that it worked last time a similar thing was proposed... been more than 4 years...
But I am not losing hope.

http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/009243.html

[This message has been edited by trident (edited 05-19-2009).]

great idea
Bebop

I propose we all do "Inna Godda Da Vida."

I've alaready done that so I will just post the tape
Bebop

Or maybe "Flight of The Bumblebee"

Why not something cool from THIS century?

Get us out of our ruts, and challenge us to find rhythms from our arrangers that compliment the tune, without sounding LIKE the tune (little chance of that for anything recent, anyway!)...?

Maybe some Norah Jones, John Mayer, even some Bublé original like that hit he had a while ago (Everything), or a little Jamie Cullum?

We've all played Fly Me to the Moon enough, haven't we?

The Jambalaya...and be Gay-OOO...

Oh I love that Rut


[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 05-20-2009).]

Which may account for why this idea will die the death

Come to think of it, aren't you the one constantly telling everyone that gear doesn't make the player, practicing and improving your act and abilities does?

And yet, here you are, stuck in a Rut...

Maybe you need another arranger, again! You haven't bought an OS2 PA series... the Audya would SURELY pay for itself in a few months ... you never bought a T3 either, did you...? And Bill's new Wersi arranger is coming soon, if you can't get Fran to sell you his MS Of course, there's always the E80... never got one of those, either, did ya'?

That's GOT to be more fun than learning some great tunes from THIS millennium, hasn't it?

I like your idea Diki. It sounds as if Donny would be a non-participant. I'm wondering if there could be a vocal song and an instrumental song. Some of us are not singers.

This being an arranger forum and not a singer's one, I'd say make it instrumental. Plenty of singers forums for those that want to showcase their voice...

Then I'm out. My keyboard style has become a support for my vocals. I do solos, but rarely if ever play more than an instrumental or two. And those are pretty plain.

I suggest it has to be arranger-based. I'd be happy to listen to instrumental and/or vocal arrangements as long as it's the same song and your take on it. Simple or fancy, I'm just interested in getting us to share.

Cass honestly you know as well as everyone this would be the biggest pee pee contest of all time ...........it's fun to share and learn from it but I think via email or Skype cam etc, etc, ... between friends is a much better way if at all....

Thanks for your opinio, Donny.

Cass your very welcome
btw it was a good idea.

I don't know, Donny... it might be better than the peeing contests WITHOUT anything to back them up!

Anyway, I don't see this as so much a competition, more just a chance for those that don't mind posting music to show how they would approach a particular song.

And no... it doesn't HAVE to be something from this century if no-one wants to do it. I was just trying to point out that there ARE things from the last few years that ARE in our 'Rut', but we just may not know it yet

BTW, just curious, but those of us that use the arranger to primarily back our vocals... don't you EVER take solos, play a head or the like?

Maybe this just goes to illustrate one of my pet peeves. Without a chord sequencer, it is MUCH harder to play a really good expressive solo while the LH is tied up slavishly repeating the chords we already just played! But seeing as this thing might allow SMF's (my take would be they HAVE to be derived from your arranger, NOT a commercial SMF), you could always do the backing on one pass from the arranger, then overdub the solos on the second pass. It would still be arranger play, just without the limitations...

Maybe that would encourage more of the singers to participate?

I say just all come to the next Shreveport Jam in January and we'll all do it LIVE on stage !!

Boy, I wish I had another arranger! After selling my Tyros and then recently giving my PSR 2000 to my nephew I really am getting antsy to get another arranger sometime soon. Although, the "next" totl arranger we'll see (that you don't have to take a second out on your house to get) will be the new Roland most likely. I think Roland is shooting for Winter NAMM '10 and I hope it's true.

Since Roland most notably releases any and all of their totl arrangers at the Winter NAMM events apparently, I guess Summer NAMM '09 looks like it will be a wash from them unfortunately. I can wait though. Especially since I have more time than money. Some people have more money than time and to them I give my sincerest condolences.

All the best,
Mike

PS: Good idea though Cassp. For me personally, my style of playing is left hand for Bass and comping chords and right hand is for melody and/or some chords as well, plus whatever grace notes or runs etc. I usually did all my VH in real time with my arranger recordings (as opposed to recording the vocals separately), especially when playing along with Styles.

Thanks everyone for you input. Some good ideas never come to fruition, like this one. I see so many obstacles, like overdubbing, recording ability and equipment, and so on. Maybe the Shreveport Jam or other such meeting is the answer. I'm out.

Personally, I don't see why you worry about those that DON'T want to do it... they've already made their decision. Why not be positive, and concentrate on those that DO...?

Even if it's a few of us, it's a start, maybe after one or two of them, and the sky doesn't fall, they might drop their negativity...

All that remains is simply to choose the piece, and set the rules. They ought to be simple, and evenhanded. NO commercial SMF's. NO singing (not everyone here is a singer, but everyone plays arranger ), and it doesn't HAVE to be done live, one take (unless we all agree).

Then all we need is somewhere to host the files...

I don't care if it is just the two of us. Maybe three, maybe four, who cares? It's NOT a competition. It's communication, musically. Something we ought to do more of here, instead of spouting specs at each other, IMO

Let's just pick the piece, set the deadline (maybe a month, as all of us have different schedules and demands on our time) and just see who is the positive ones on this forum, and who REALLY are the negative ones...

I'm in, cassp is in, who else wants in? (we already know who DOESN'T )

No prizes, no 'best of show', no giveaways. Just friends sharing music... doesn't sound so bad when you put it like that, does it?

My ears will join,as for my song,i think i'll get blown out of the water!

It isn't about being the best... it's about participating.

ANYONE can do that...

I'm in. I'll give it that Mikey Maestro twist.

------------------
God Bless,
Mikey

www.mikeymaestro.com
www.myspace.com/kidconcert
www.balloonanimal.com
www.jokevid.com
www.youtube.com/kidconcert

No, I don't think Cass is in, Diki...

A few posts prior he stated clearly that his kb is support for his vocals, and therefore he was out...

Let's not chase away a fairly large % of this forum's singers. If this project is going to succeed, I don't think a group of us should be taken out of our comfort zone. I'm a singer first, then a kb player. I think several others are also...

If guys want to do this, let's keep it an ongoing project. Let's start with a song from the 1990's or newer...Call that the June song...you wanna sing, cool...just an instrumental, equally cool...

In July, we ask for renditions of a tune from the 80's...

In August, the 70's, in September, the 60's and so on till we hit the 20's and before. Perhaps start all over again and keep repeating. Who knows?

We'll cover a variety of different popular styles. What fits one person like a glove one month, won't the next...We'll all do stuff we feel great about...and some stuff that maybe isn't our favorite.

Pick a month for country...it merits its own...

Something like that...No "best of" awards or ratings systems, etc. Every poster does so with the knowledge that some will like it and some probably won't. Play nice...no cheap or personal shots, it could be fun.

We're not trying to split the atom, just share music amongst cyber acquaintances. For simplicity sake, I would say...since this is an arranger KB forum, the submissions should be arranger based, with no overdubbing. Once a tune is covered, no one else can submit that one. (That will avoid direct comparisons to keep it friendly...) This isn't a recording project, its something to see how guys approach a tune and utilize the tools they and their arranger have to perform it...

Thoughts?

------------------
Bill in Dayton


[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 05-21-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 05-21-2009).]

I am hijacking this post with an observation..

I have noticed for many years, the need to use different tools as crutches...when making music..Some crutches can be over com-ed, others can not..

I see as an example here...Cass stated that he relies on his playing as a back up for his vocals, and suffers in his playing skills to "play" his best...Hopefully I didn't misunderstand you Cass..

If this is true, I know of many, that are the same...There are "strong" singers, that need the vocals as a crutch for their playing skills...

There are others that rely on their playing skills to make the best of their vocals..

There are many that rely on the written music to play..this can also be a crutch..

I think the "arranger" keyboard has become a crutch for so many...causing them to lose skills that they may have had before...and others do need the arranger to aid them because of lacking skills..

All of these scenarios are fine, but maybe we need to look at our own positions, and see if the "crutches " are holding us back , or causing us to deteriorate as players..

If you want to test yourself..turn off the arranger stuff, and turn off the mic....and play...see if you can hold your own..

Fran-Good topic by why wouldn't you start you own thread on this and merely refer to Cass' post?



------------------
Bill in Dayton

I think that I agree to everything.

Actually started to write a post like "if you want to sing, then sing if you don't, then don't sing, just play the music"... then I realised you wrote the same thing.

And I agree with Diki, ANYONE can do it. Anyone that wants, that is.

I wanna tank me mudder for sendin' me to dem pie-anna lessens wen I wuz a wee b'ye!

Tanks Ma, b'ye!

Well, I'm all for ANYTHING that gets participation.

Sing if you want to, don't if you don't, I guess. Fine by me. I was trying to point out that, even if you use your arranger primarily for vocals, SURELY you don't sing from the beginning of the night to the end, no solos, no nothing? But I digress... if singing gets you to participate, I'm for it...

About the only thing I think we should disallow is the use of commercial or third party SMF's. This IS an arranger forum, not a karaoke one, seems only fair to ask that it be your performance using arranger mode, at least for the track...

It depends on the song, but I'll either do a 'live' arranger piece, or use the arranger to make the accompaniment, and THEN play the head and solos, but anything is open, as long as it's yours, I guess. And I rather like the idea of us all doing the same piece. It won't mean we all do it the same way, same style, same arranger, same anything, but it makes for at least SOMETHING in common between us all.

Anyone, at any time, has been free to post anything at all (not that many have... ), but here would be a chance to see our diversity within a certain structure... So, everyone, let's pick the song. Perhaps, to be fair, cassp started the thread, perhaps we should leave it to him (if he decides to participate now that singing is OK) to pick the song? Otherwise we'll be here till doomsday arguing it...

OK with you?

Deadline for submission... what, round it off? Make it the end of June?

Finally, where to post the songs for listening? Any good suggestions for a site that will host the files, allow easy access and download without spam and popups, etc.?

The First SZ online Jam! Sounds like fun to me

Hi there,

1) Songs can be "hosted" on rapishare, everyone can upload there.

2) They also can be put on youtube, I think

3) I created an account on GMAIL, mail it there:

email: sz.arranger.songs AT gmail.com ( the "." is part of the username)
pass: opensesame

Since all can log on to gmail, with the above, simply send the song there, see if it is working, then notify everyone with a post here. You can also make a gmail account solely for sending your song, with your SZ name so we know who send it.
Easy?

Might be easy to do a song from the Beatles ..

O...K... I'll play.

I don't want to choose the song though. Let's give it until June 1st to get the song and all the ground rules together. I like that it should be something newer, maybe even something none of us has yet played or recorded.

I'd also like to minimize the layers of recording. Multi-takes to make your song sound "passable" to you really takes away from arranger playing, which is mostly a live activity. I would say record only as much as you need to make it sound like it would if you were playing it live. If you want to dub in a self-made midi fil, backing track or mp3, that's OK as long as that's how you'd do it live.

Let's hear some song suggestions and start working.

I'm kind of partial to Michael Bublé's "Everything' at the moment, but open to just about anything. Thing that strikes me is, ask 20 people on this forum what they would like to play, you'll get 20 different answers. SOMEBODY has to make a decision, just getting consensus might take the whole month!

It's fine by me, anything you pick.. You started this thing cassp, why not just pick a nice song, make it easy on the forum?!

I made a suggestion several posts ago about doing by decades and working backwards. Does anyone else like that idea?

I'd also suggest that we don't pick one tune. Wouldn't it be a common enough ground to be picking a song from a specified timeframe? I think comparisons are likely...people will be stressed out and not want any part of it.

If my idea is followed...and I'm fine if its not...lets' all pick a pop tune from 2000 - current day...name your song/artist and its yours...the next project would be from the 90's...

Hmmm, do I know anything written after 2000?



------------------
Bill in Dayton

How about "Bird in a guilded cage"...so Chas will join the project...

I like the 21st century start, but am partial to one or maybe two songs. I'dlike to hear the presentatio of the same material by different people. With too many songs there would be no common basis except era - IMHO.

I'll try to finalize some suggestions by Monday.

quick thought - Black Horse and the Cherry Tree - by K.T. Tunstall

It's all loops, perfect for an arranger. Could be a wild instrumental arrangement. Listen:
http://www.rhapsody.com/kt-tunstall/blac...ion/lyrics.html

I know, you want something more OUR STYLE. I'll keep thinking...

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 05-22-2009).]

double post

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 05-22-2009).]

What IS 'our style'?

I thought the whole point of this was to see what styles and approaches WE use for any particular piece...? I guarantee there will be a pretty wide selection

You see, unless we pick ONE tune (let's see how well this first one goes before we plan a whole series, eh, Bill? ), what's the difference to what already exists here, where anybody can post anything they want to at any time they want to? (Not that many do!)

I'm OK with Black Horse... It's cassp's thread, how about we respect his choice?

Main thing, IMO, is NOT to see how close to the record we get, but what we actually DO with the song. 'Our style' is whatever YOU want to do...! Only the song has been chosen (if that's OK with everybody?), the rest is entirely in YOUR (and your arranger's ) hands...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 05-22-2009).]

Cass wants us to all cover a common tune, that's good enough for me.

Black Horse it is!



------------------
Bill in Dayton

Whoa - let's not get ahead of ourselves. I would like to suggest a couple more before we headlong into this , OK. I try to post a couple more over the holiday weekend and by Tuesday morning we should have everything in place.

It's not really a suggestion, cassp... you're IT!

We'll do whatever you pick (or we'll be arguing forever!).

Black Horse was your first choice. Do you want to change it, or were you just looking for consensus? Because best of luck with that!

Thing about the song that strikes me is, first, very simple chords. Secondly, very simple structure. You could do it jazz, you could do it Latin, you could do it New Jack, hell, you could make a polka out of it if you wanted!

Sky's the limit...

Pick what you want, but YOU choose. It was your idea, you get this one rolling. Someone else can do the NEXT one if this is uncomfortable!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 05-22-2009).]

... step by step

Here are 3 three songs you may choose from for the upcoming SZ eJam:

Black Horse and a Cherry Tree - KT Tunsall
Here We Go Again - Red Steagall & Don Lanier
The Nearness of You - Hoagy Carmichael & Ned Washington

I'll give you the weekend to consider and comment on these three. I've tried to pick a variety of types that might lend themselves to various interpretations. I know they're not 21st century songs, but they are still being recorded by artists today.

Songs, final rules and comments will be posted on a new thread Tuesday. The eJam will conclude on June 30.

Last chance for comments. Tomorrow I will post the start of the jam.

Are these the only song choices/

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 05-25-2009).]

I'm not familiar with "Here We Go Again." Several different tunes under that name on you tube, can you point us to the right one?

I'd hate to learn the wrong dang song, you know?

------------------
Bill in Dayton

Here we Go Again - a Ray Charles classic; country, bluesy-gospel style from Ray. I think this is his original version. I won't link to the recent Ray Charles/Norah Jones rendition because it gives me goose bumps. But the organ on this one is good stuff.
http://www.last.fm/music/Ray+Charles/_/Here+We+Go+Again

Kinda... YES.

But for you Donny, we'll take any song you want to showcase. You got anything in mind?

Can't play any of them? I find that hard to believe...

See, cassp, I told you if you start offering up choices, we'd be at it forever!

Donny, the whole POINT is, you've already got up what YOU feel like posting. The idea was to see what different players would do to the same song.

Diki, Donny is only playing with us. Don't get upset. But of course, as you have stated repeatedly, anyone is free to post anything at anytime. Let's all play nice.

Again preumption prvails.....but thanx cass I'll pass not worth the trouble.

Donny-GET A GRIP, DUDE...HE'S BUSTIN' YOUR CHOPS!!! Please don't take your kb and go home, ok?

Just pick one and make it your own, jeez...C'mon you can do this in your sleep!

Diki-On behalf of the SZ, please shut up...





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Bill in Dayton

Ahhh what's the sense this thing has turned into a major pee-pee contest already...

You're the spokesman for SZ now, are you Bill?

Imagine that.

Maybe it was too subtle, but it was said tongue in cheek. Do I really function as the official spokesperson? Of course not...

Do I think Diki tweaked Donny on purpose, yeah, I do...

Do I think Donny is a little over sensitive, yeah, I do...

I think both guys have a lot of knowledge and skill and a lot to offer this forum, but this back & forth, IMO is really getting in the way...
------------------
Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 05-25-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 05-25-2009).]

. .. ...

No matter how much you guys piss and moan, it won't change a thing. I've already composed the SZ eJam announcement. If you want to give it a try, please do. If you don't, then that's cool too. See you tomorrow.