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[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 03-06-2010).]

Yes I do see your point, and I also understand where you are coming from on it

Unfortunately my knowledge is now exhausted and you may have to wait for Magica or Dom to should some more light on it. Sorry.

As I said I am now starting to muck around withe the audio/ midi style system, so maybe in a few weeks I will have some more hands-on info to pass on.
Up to now I have been setting up, tweaking setups as I go along after live shows, and generally getting all the basics covered so I can then have more time for experimenting.

Dennis

it sounds great but thats not the same as the PA1X. The pax already recognises most of the chord types including rootless chords. Not just 6. The CV on the korg allows in effect 6 different sounding patterns for every instrument in one style variation depending on the chord you play. So its the chords that triggers the mini style variation within each major variation. I probably am not explaining this very well....

The problem with the Qranger as i understand it is that if you wish to have Audio in a style that will recognise most of the chords that any other arranger automatically recognises you have to paste into the style all chord variations of that sampled piece of audio . Is that correct or not ?

Which is the same premise for the Audya isnt it ? Which is why for certain chords the Audio drops out and midi notes kick in because Ketron realised the mamoth task of recording all the audio sounds in every chord variation ????

.

[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 06-09-2009).]

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[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 03-06-2010).]

I am talking about the Audio element Magic Alfa. not the midi.Are you saying that if you recorda real audio guitar riff in Dminor, it will recognise and play correctly 36 different chord types from this single piece of Audio ? Are you sure ??

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[This message has been edited by AFG Music (edited 03-06-2010).]

I thing AFG Music and Spalding1968 you thing maybe on that:

You can play audio file for major and it MS will recognized all tones 13. But that will not be possible for all 36 chords. So If you will use that in audio is harder way But is possible. If will be used chords in VST like REAL GUITAR 2L than you can change all 36 chords because this VST is really good for recognitions of chords.

If you want you can have one style for major one for minor etc in other hand: that means in same time also that minor is different variation than major. Here is no more limited creativity.

But also if you want you can make same thing with only one major style and minor… etc is played on this base.

Good thing is that you can use for each channel different VST or AUDIO file. Qranger is simple for use but is having so many advantages that nobody can use all.

GOOD LINK AFG Music:
http://www.easy-share.com/1905619130/QrangerManualOS3.pdf]http://www.easy-share.com/1905619130/QrangerManualOS3.pdf


BR Magica Alfa

sorry to sound stupid. I read through the manual but did not really understand what i was reading. Please qoute the part of the manual where it explains that any audio you stream from the hard drive will be transposed or stretched into either 13 or 36 different chord shapes.

If the manual doesnt say this explicitly then please explain so i can understand how one audio loop of for example a guitar track where in an up stroke several differnt notes are played in say a Dminor and a down stroke a D7 can all be stretched/transposed differently to sound like accurate or even acceptable when you hold down a Bminor9 chord?

I undertand the concept of stretching the entire audio up or down but how does it alter one piece of audio into different elements that each have to be altered lowered or hightened differently ?

Magic Alfa if you are comfortable in doing this can you post up an example of an audio guitar riff that you have imported into a style and show us a few chord changes. Not just straight major and minor chords but some 13ths 9ths and 7ths. Thanks so much for helping me undestand this new technology.

[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 06-10-2009).]

I'm sorry, but these numbers are just staggering. Over 1000 separate elements to make one style?

Can we just step back a bit here, and pretend we are in the real world? You know, the one where the vast majority of arranger PLAYERS can't even put a simple MIDI style together that rivals the ROM styles... You see, this is a forum for arranger PLAYERS. I don't know if there is one for the professionals that design the styles for the manufacturers and TOTL style houses, but it ain't here! (wish it was, mind you )

Most of us have lives... most of us have families... most of us have JOBS. Where is the time supposed to come from to make ONE of these styles, let alone the hundreds that you need to gig?

When the Audya was first released, I posted a fair bit about their claim that the guitar section was going to to be all audio. I felt at the time (and have since been proven right) that the sheer quantity of loops necessary to make even ONE style that covered sufficient chords to be usable for any song was daunting to make. Even with time stretching and pitch shifting (which introduce artifacts easily noticeable when taken past a certain point - to the point that even Ketron had to have TWO completely different sets of loops to cover a decent tempo range), you are looking at hundreds of different loops to cover just the main chord types and their popular extensions.

Unfortunately, the MS has no special way to add MIDI guitar notes to basic chords to extend the range they can (albeit halfassedly ), so you are back to HAVING to find these chord loops. Let's just look at the major chord, shall we?

Maj, Maj(no 3rd), Maj(add2), Maj(b5), Maj6, Dom7th, Maj(maj7), Maj(6,9), Maj b9, Maj7#9, Maj 11, Maj 13, and so on and so forth.

Now lets think about the minors. And then the diminished. And then the augmented. And then the sus. Half diminished.

Where does one even GET a well recorded library of ALL those chords, let alone in four or so variations and several fills (and someone explain to me how Intros and Endings can have whatever you want on a real guitar in them), and hundreds of different styles in just about any genre you can think of?

It is the sheer scale of the work involved to do this task that many don't take into account. Ketron sure couldn't manage it, and they have gobs of money, talented players and recording facilities that none of us do. They ended up with a system that does maj, min and some (but not all) 7ths. It's all very well to say you COULD do something. Heck, we all COULD be astronauts If only... we were astronaut material, and dedicated our whole lives to it..!

But back in the REAL WORLD, most of us haven't the time, skill, patience, chops, creativity, technical skills, recording skills, and sheer bloodymindedness to actually do this. Not for the quantity we actually NEED, if even for ONE style. What got our juices flowing (and then dried them up ) was Ketron's announcement that THEY WERE GOING TO DO IT FOR US (and subsequent inability to do so).

Look, IF you had ALL the skills necessary to style up an MS to it's potential, I'm sorry, but you would already BE a top player and recording artist, engineer, whatever... and you wouldn't in the slightest be interested in wasting your time on a bloody arranger! You'd be playing with the best people in the business, making more money than the arranger industry can afford. How do I know this? Because this is EXACTLY what has happened..! Dom can't afford to hire people to do this task for us, Ketron couldn't afford to hire people to do this task (in it's entirety) for us, and nobody, including ALL the MS cheerleaders on this forum can't do it for us. What on earth make anyone think we could all do it for ourselves?

Sure, make little half-assed audio styles that don't play many chords, and take forever making them (not to mention the cost of purchasing the loop libraries they use), and you can CLAIM it can be done. Now, go away and come back when you have a couple of hundred styles, all capable of playing ANY chord the user wants, in any style the user wants, at any tempo the user wants. And then tell us how much it costs...

If Dom can't afford it, if Ketron couldn't afford to do it, how are WE supposed to...???

I have library with all chords. This is use of giga sounds and ordinary midi.

That type is good, but i rely like other way: VST of REAL GUITARIST is playing chords and you are having with that possibility to make your own riff in major and that one is playing for all chords. Also complex. Same thing I made in past with VIRTUAL GUITARIST That is one simple midi part. you can make style like song in C major on your qranger in same way as cubase or sonor etc or you can import midi file in qranger.

Exapmle of complex use: Major is as one part, minor different bass or different other instruments but in maj7 it will play style from MAJOR converted to the 7 if you will not make your own. It is hard to understand that, but it is logical calculaction. You can not be afraid that you need to do all chords. All chord that will not be done will be taken from major.

And audio part. I use for drums, some effects and back live singer audio recorded. Here is elastique really perfect. for all chords and any transpose.

I hope that this answer will help you.
I'm sorry also in this days i have not at home MS, because we are playing each day. I will make some demo in next days, when I will be at home with MS.

BR Magica ALFA