http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1906005052/macintoucwebsite/ref=nosim

I haven't read it, but it seems firstly, a very decent price, and secondly, a ground up beginner approach, so anyone looking to improve the realism of their computer or arranger orchestration skills might want to take a look at this.

Thanks Diki
I might get it, as I cannot seem to create layers for my band gig to compete with my KN7000. It is not the voices on the G70, but the distribution. To me, the Melody Intell does not get it. I know this is an art, but I should be getting fuller section sounds than I am.

Are you talking about orchestral layers?

Maybe, if you tell us what you are after, I can suggest a trick or two... I do a fair bit of this kind of stuff.

Yes, I have one of my weekly gigs where I back up the band with any section that is weak, and take one of the verses as a solo. There are from 8-25 musicians, depending on the season. Many are former big band men. We play old standards and we might need a horn or sax/clar section. If I use clarinet with brass left hand,e.g, it works, but sometimes I want a fuller sound.

I use UP 1,2,3 and LW 1 or 2 with Melody Intell. I haven't gone so far as detuning, and since I first posted, I have gotten better results. I was hoping you would offer a tip ot two.

Thanks
Bernie

Well, big band is a little different from orchestra, but some of the same things apply. You need to be careful with your layers. Brass octave sounds are a particular culprit, and you can't use them over much of a range before either the low note goes down too low, or the high note goes too high. REAL horn sections, even in tutti, have players drop down octaves as they approach their range limits (or up).

If you are triggering the arranger while doing all this (you didn't say you have a rhythm section), things get a LOT harder. The whole thing about orchestral and bigband voicing is the SPREAD of the chords and playing. Most chords are 'open' chords, in other words, wider than you can play with one hand. They are fairly easy to pull off if you have two hands, but if one is running the arranger, things get tougher (but not impossible).

This is where your Pianostyle mode can be REALLY useful. Now you can move about the full keyboard, play sounds through their natural range, and still play unison or octave lines that don't retrigger the chord recognition. I am afraid I don't find the Melody Intell all that useful, but it has it's moments.

Most of what I play for bigband as far as tones goes revolves around a three way layer. Usually, I'll get a brass section sound in unison, layer it with a sax sound with good timbral change (listen for different sample layers as you play louder) and some nice sampled vibrato. Usually one of the breathier patches (I use alto sax vib on my G70), and I'll set them to Medium keytouch. Then I add a brass section swell, layered up so that, at it's loudest, it just pushes the sound a bit further (in other words, don't let it swamp the saxes until you are hitting as hard as you can), and I put that on HIGH velocity response, so it pops through a lot more as you play louder, and disappears in the quieter sections. This is one of the main tricks about getting realism from brasswinds... have different velocity responses for different patches, so the timbre as well as the volume changes as you play harder. Keep your saxes as the main 'bed', then let the brass punch through on harder hit notes.

You COULD actually restrict the velocity ranges so the brass swell doesn't play at all at lower velocities, but I find that makes for too jumpy a note response. Keeping it on HIGH will pretty much make it disappear at lower velocities.

OK... next the voicings themselves. Have you ever played in the 'George Shearing' piano style? This is where, to keep it simple, you basically play the melody line at the top of a two handed chord, AND the bottom, and then you fill in the chord on the inside. It's a sort of 'block chord' approach, with the line doubled high and low. It can be played 'close' with only an octave between the line, or opened out to two octaves, which gives you more freedom to pick how you voice the chord. It's pretty good for getting a bigband section sound, and has the advantage of, in pianostyle mode, still triggering the chord recognition pretty well.

Practice this if you haven't got it mastered yet, to the point where you can block around fairly simple melodies with all the implied harmonies added as you go. Now, in Pianostyle mode, you can block around for a while, and if you get to a point where the chord doesn't change for a bit, play the melody ONLY, either just the one note, or in octaves (you have to be VERY clean with your fingering in octaves, lest you play THREE notes accidentally, and your chord recognition goes haywire!). Instant bigband!

This ought to get you going...

Some more advanced things might be to have all five parts layered over the whole keyboard (UPR 1,2,3 and LWR 1 & 2), and have LWR 1 & 2 be more of a clarinet and sax layer, then program your volume pedal to be all the UPR sounds when down, and LWR sounds when up, and now you can get even more variety...

I hope this helps with what you are trying to do. It takes a while to get your head away from pianistic chord voicings, but hopefully, this will suggest a start.

I am also a big believer in the 'sponge' theory... If you restrict your music listening to JUST bigband recordings for a month or two (and keep it simple stuff... no point listening to Buddy Rich or Woody Hermann!), an awful lot will just seep in and get absorbed unconsciously. The main trick is KNOWING deep in your heart when you have played something that sounds right, and more especially, KNOWING, at a gut level, when it sounds wrong! Then, keep doing what sounds good, and stop playing what sounds wrong ( ) and pretty soon, ALL you are playing is what sounds good..!

Best of luck...

...and how about this one also:
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Arranging-Orchestration/dp/1592576265

Anyone get to see how it reads?

Lucky

Mainly for home users (The target market for arrangers/organs) but may be of interest to others.
http://www.keyplay4u.co.uk/index.html

Also monthly teaching articles are included in Organ & Keyboard Cavalcade Magazine, all written by pro musicians and music teachers.
http://www.keyboard-cavalcade.co.uk/index.htm

Finally attend any of the Keyboard Festivals in the UK, and you will find all sorts of teach-ins to suit what ever you want, and all tied in with top quality players and music.
http://www.keyboard-cavalcade.co.uk/festival.htm

Enjoy

Bill

I see there are good resources out there.
Diki
Thank you so much for your treatise on the G70 in particular, and section creation in general. Eventhough I read some of this in the manual, I would not have connected this to my situation. I do not use the rythm in the band, so I will study and experiment with your suggestions. I don't suppose you have a UPG made up as a template of sorts.

Thanks Diki...it looks very interesting.

I still have a couple of Dick Grove's books that are a bit dog eared.

Diki,

Thanks for the tip. I have to do orchestrations for my position at the college. This book will be most helpful. Again, thanks!

Joe

------------------
Songman55
Joe Ayala

Bernie,
I will always look at music with simplicity -- The feeling often gets lost with all the added theories.

My two thoughts:
1- I have been listening to music for a long time -- I do know, from my point of view, how the music should sound.
2- Experiment -- listen and then decide and listen again.

If I voice with another person’s feeling I will not be me. What I play, be it accepted or not, is me – in that I find the best of me that is possible.

I am in a church of 15,000, 4,000 in the branch I attend. I no longer see violins or brass or reeds. I do see a high end Yamaha and Roland keyboards.
They cover all the empty areas, fill in the emotional parts. It is my opinion that they do it poorly. When I listen again with the ears of a younger person it sound good. So you see we do know what is good or bad, what will compliment the big band sound and what will not. Trust in Bernie, he does know.

IMHO, John C.

Hi John
Thanks for sharing. I have known you for some time and know your music comes from the heart. For the same reason, I want available the sounds that I feel are needed at any given moment. With no conceit I knowthat I can greatly influence the timbre of the entire band with my Bose. It is not enough for me to add one instrument, but when I assemble suitable sections, I have the tools to make my contribution.

You are right, I know what is needed. Now I assemble my tools.

Bernie