At the church where I work, we are looking to replace our MOTIF ES7 with something more user-friendly for the average player. Our players don't need the depth of the ES7. However, it seems like the MM8 might fit very nicely into our music ministry. I spent some time at the local GC yesterday checking it out. Good key feel, lots of bread & butter voices, even some Mega Voices. Cool arps. Simple panel layout. Basically 'MOTIF Lite'.

Anyone have experience with this board, I'd love to hear what you think.

Thanks
Tim

I've got a lot of time on the MM6.., exact same thing but with 61 keys. All around not a bad keyboard. It's built in the PSR factory.., so the action and other hardware indicate its PSR roots. It's also an arranger keyboard even though some still scream bloody hell that it is not. It's patterns are really styles.., but Yamaha used the term patterns since they wanted it associated with the Motif line. The MM's styles however aren't as full as you'd find on a typical arranger keyboard. There are no intros or endings. You get 4 variations with 4 fills. There's an auto fill button to trigger the fill from one variation to the next..., or you can leave it off and switch without a fill. There is no style creator either.., but you can import styles (with some limitation of course)

If you're looking to the MM8 for any indepth patch editing.., this is a big drawback. The MM6/8 lacks several basic synth parameters. No portamento, the inability to produce a monophonic patch, LFO section missing entirely, and a few paramenters from the Envelope section. It also lacks a user area for patches. You save everything to registrations (called performances on the MM line even though it's really a registration system). An issue there is that you cannot name your banks either..., there have been some complaints about that issue.

The MM's styles aren't the typical arranger styles either. In a way it's like the DJX. The patterns are geared towards more modern music. You won't find ballroom, polkas, bigband ect.., and if you do see a title that resembles a more traditional style it's really that style with a modern twist to it.

The MM IMO makes a great "add on" keyboard to a set up. It's not going to replace a workstation or function as the heart of a set up. It does have some motif flavored sounds.., but understand there are some of the lower quality sounds from the PSR line in the MM's patch set..., (such as that very old digital sounding slap bass that Yammie has been using for years). In general I think it has a nice patch set. I'm on the fence regarding the Piano Patch though. It's supposed to be from the Motif Classic but IMO it sounds like a variation of a piano patch from the PSR line. You will find some mega voices and a HUGE plus is the arps section is supposed to be carried over from the Motif ES line..., but understand that you cannot not edit the arps or create your own. So you get a touch of both worlds with the MM line.., a little from the classic and a little from the ES line.

There's a notable price difference between the MM6 and MM8. All Yamaha did was add the weighted keybed and they increased the cost up by around $400. It's not even Yamaha's higher end graded action either.




[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-13-2009).]

I'd be kind of hesitant on getting an MM8 Tim. First of all there is only 32 note polyphony and you or someone else will quickly find out you're running out of poly and having subsequent note cut-off during your live play. I would hate to see your church members with all these inquisitive type looks on their faces as you start running out of polyphony left and right during a song set. Or worse yet, having them get up and head for the door as they mumble words under their breath that the keyboard player is ruining the worship atmosphere.

Also, the MM8 doesn't have Aftertouch which is quite limiting when you use other type voices than just the Piano voices. I would think your keyboard player(s) would want the ability to add some 'expression' to their playing when necessary or if need be. The MM8 does have Mod wheels though which is nice, but you would need to interrupt your left hand playing if you decided to use them manually. OTOH, you may be able to set up the Mod wheels in conjunction with the foot controller, but I'm not sure if that is actually possible on the MM8.

The price is definitely much lower than a high-end Workstation like the Motif ES/XS, etc. If your church is looking to be more frugal in their music instrument purchases the MM8 sure falls more so within that particular category i.e. with frugality in mind. Although you may be able to get much more polyphony and even an aftertouch feature on some other keyboard products from other manufacturers without necessarily having to break the churches bank account in the process. If I hear of something I'll let you know and get back with you. >> There might be something from Roland, Korg, Kurzweil, to name a few, but I'm not sure if something from those manufacturers fits the bill at the moment i.e. having 88 keys, at LEAST 64 note polyphony, aftertouch, and won't break the bank. Oh, and easy to use. Like I said, I'll let you know soon if I discover something.

All the best,
Mike


[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 06-13-2009).]

The MM surprisingly handles the limited 32 note poly pretty well. If you're just using the MM for performace patch play the 32 notes shouldn't be a problem. Natually when you start layering patches.., and use the auto accomp with other controller such as the sustain pedal the poly will start to bottom out.

One BIG thumbs up from me about the MM line is the pitch/mod wheels. Even though it's an arranger Yamaha used a higher quality set of wheels on the MM line.., I'm pretty sure they're the same wheels from the MO line. So a thumbs up to the better wheels.

If you can manage with 76 good quality keys.., the Roland Juno Stage may be a good option. Great sound set.., vocoder, good keys, USB player, a good overall value too.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-13-2009).]

Guess what Tim. You can currently get a great deal on a Roland Fantom "X"8 that has both 128 note polyphony and an Aftertouch feature and it's a WHOLE lot easier to navigate and use than the Yamaha Motif series. I would say get the Fantom "G"8 because you'd be getting the latest/greatest technology and sound plus same ease of use factor, but your church may not want to spend that much on a replacement keyboard which is quite understandable, especially in these dire economic times we are currently experiencing in the U.S. and worldwide. Although maybe you can get a rich parishioner to pony up the extra sum perhaps?? Just let your members know there is a 'real' need for a new, easier to use keyboard, and you might be pleasantly surprised that one of the members steps up to the plate to actually fill that "extra" need.

All the best,
Mike

PS: I'm still searching...

You might consider the Yamaha YPG635. It has a nice wighted keyboard, "live Piano" voice, arranger, bread and butter sounds, easy to use, plays standard midi files direct from USB thumb drive........inexpensive...($899.00) and it's 64 voice polyphony. And you can attach a $69.00 three pedal unit to it's stand (which is included in the price).


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

I should have pointed out that this kbd will be used as part of a contemporary worship band. We typically use Ac. guitar, El. guitar, drums, bass, kbd, and 3 or 4 singers on our worship teams.

So, the MM8 will only be one of several in the mix. Usually the kbd player will do synth pad, string, brass, organ, or EP fills. Seldom will he use full solo piano. If he wants to do that, there's a Yammy C7 Grand sitting right next to him, when needed.

All that so as to say that 32 poly is plenty, even if he layers 2 voices. Also, the styles are not essential in our application. Arps on the other hand, could be a hoot.

Tim

Hi George. Good to hear from you on this topic. I very seriously considered the YPG635. It's a fine instrument, but it doesn't quite fit our scenario for these reasons: 1) No arps 2) Lack of certain voices I consider essential (including mega) 3) Not as portable 4) Lack of real-time control knobs.

Given the fact that it still would actually be OK for a worship band application, along with built-in speakers...it could be used elsewhere in the church when needed. That aspect of versatility is making me wonder as I type, whether is would be a viable alternative...hmmm. I guess I shouldn't totally count it out. Have to do some more thinking on that.

I'll have to check the voice list to make sure it has enough variety of pads, etc.

George, regarding the USB - will it play MIDI files instantly from the stick or do you have to first load it to the piano?

Thanks for your help
Tim

Also, there is the Korg M50 88 key. It has 80 note polyphony in single mode (40 note in dual mode). It also has Arps, a 16 track sequencer, and weighs only 46 lbs., which is not bad for an 88 key workstation by the way. The price is well within reason too, although about $800 more than the Yammie MM8. But you get a LOT more with the Korg of course.

All the best,
Mike

I've just added the Juno Stage to my list of possibilities. 76 keys is OK with us. 88 is not a must. Now to see one live...probably at GC.

Keyboard shopping, how fun!

I wanted to mention that the M50 88 doesn't have aftertouch although it will respond to aftertouch when using MIDI IN/OUT from what I understand.

If 76 keys is acceptable to your church then that opens a wide range of other options for you as well Tim. Clavia makes the fully weighted 76 key Nord Stage but it is rather expensive at over $3,000. Also, Kurzweil has the PC3 76 key (fully weighted as well) which is more reasonably priced at about a $1,000 less than the Nord Stage 76. Both of those DO have an aftertouch feature by the way. As far as ease of use the Juno Stage is pretty straight forward but I haven't had the opportunity to play a Kurz PC3 yet. I have played the Nord Stage though and it seems pretty user friendly as well.

Half of the fun is just doing the shopping around eh?

All the best,
Mike


[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 06-13-2009).]

How about a nice used G70?

VERY easy navigation, VERY good basic soundset (awesome Hammond's, EP's, synths, brass, etc., everything you mentioned, in fact), a pretty self explanatory front panel. The piano is SO good, you might use it instead of the C7

Maybe not as 'cool' as the Motif arps (but how do you lock the live drummer to those?), but it can still sound pretty contemporary (the Cover Tools are a revelation), and do retro at the same time...

And then it will still do a pretty good solo worship lead for when the band can't make it...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
[B]How about a nice used G70?

Know where I can get one for around $1200?

Well, the Juno Stage is definitely out. The keys smaller than what we're used to, and it carries with it the same old worn out Roland sounds that have been around for years. I had those sounds on my old KR7 piano.

Checked the YPG635, too, and it has way too few synth and pad voices.

Unless I can be impressed with something else, I'm still leaning toward the MM8.

Have you considered a Motif Rack ES or even a Classic Rack? Hell you could get a used Classic Rack and a half decent controller for the cost of the MM8.

I've seen some nice ones about 2 grand, sorry. :-(

One thing is, you won't be bitching about the action Best non-piano action on anything, IMO

Basically, a bunch of FantomX sounds (including its' best grand piano), a bunch of older, SC880pro stuff, a VK organ and a V-Drum module. All wrapped in a bow

Coaster tim i dont get the reason your churcg wants to spend anymore money on a new keyboard when they already have more than they need in the Es. What would it cost to spend 1 hour with anyone that might be a member of your praise team to learn the basic functions of the keyboard ? I bet if you hired a demonstrator from a keyboard shop local to you foe even say 4 hours to give an on site tutorial it would cost you less than $300 and once that knowledge has been passed on you can do the same for any new potential band members as and when they join.

Unless there is another reason that you havent stated this seems like a real waste of money. You already have a great keyboard. You just need to look at the problem froma differnt angle. Surely the church doesnt suffer from gear lust too :-) ( That was a light hearted comment Coaster. I am a church worship leader too.)

Point well taken. We have discovered that the ES is more suited to production rather than live playing. Here are some practical examples: 1) While holding a chord and changing the voice, the ES doesn't smoothly transition without a hiccup. 2) There's no simple way to save favorites without going thru several pages in the onscreen menu.
3) Transposing on the fly is not possible. Once again you have to go through a couple pages of menus. 4) We like the fact that you get 88 hammer action keys on the MM8.

On the MM8, there is: 1)seamless transitions from one voice to the next 2) A simple way to quickly save and instantly recall 10 favorites 3) dedicated transpose buttons 4)2 real-time control knobs for tweaking on the go.

The MM8 is not a workstation, but more of a player's keyboard.

We can trade it in and spend just a few hundred dollars for the MM8.

It just seems like the MM8 will fit our needs better, even though technically speaking, the ES is much more keyboard, but it's production side will never be utilized by our players. In retrospect, it was not a good choice for our specific needs. If the MM8 had been available when we purchased the ES7, it would have been obvious which one fit for us.

Please let me know if I'm missing something here. I do want to do what is right.

Tim



[This message has been edited by CoasterTim (edited 06-14-2009).]

You will find few keyboards except Roland that do NOT cut the notes off when changing patches.

Another reason for the G70!

However, if there is ONE ES user at the church that is familiar with the Yamaha, perhaps he could write Setups into the ES that would accomplish what you need (except the patch change glitch). Then the non-technical player could simply call up the Setups that have been programmed for them? Give them easy to understand names, and place them in a Favorites section (has the ES got one of those?)...

Just a thought..

Are you talking about performance set ups Diki? The ES does what the MM cannot do and that's create a 16 part performance (that you can name) and customize the crap out of. Performances on the ES can include preset patterns, arp settings, effects settings, mixer settings.., the list goes on. This is a very common mode used by players who perform in a worship group and use a workstation.., or even a performance synth. It puts 16 patches (presets or your own) along with many other edited parameters in one performance. You can use the track/part buttons to have all 16 patches at your fingertips.

if you can trade in the ES and then spend only a few hundred dollars for the MM8 and you get the piano weighted keys which is what you prefer then its less of a difficult decision.